Emissions laws, old cars, and today's paper

Dr.Jeff

Dr.Jeff

True Classic
This morning's newspaper had a story that gave me a little anxiety for a second.

Here in Nevada, like in many states, older "classic" vehicles can be exempted from annual emissions (smog) testing if they are registered as a "classic car". Here the annual registration cost and all other requirements are the same, with one exception. There is a mileage limitation for that category, but the motor vehicle department does not track it. Since there is no other types of tests required for any vehicles, it is really like having any other car but no smog testing or inspection of any type. Nice for car collectors like me, especially having come from Calif where the rules are much stricter.

Nevada's motor vehicle department defines "classic" cars as 20 years or older. That means a 2001 vehicle is currently eligible. Wow, I know I'm getting older but 2001 is "classic"? I have a hard time viewing any 80's car as a classic.

The problem is a lot of people have been taking advantage of this loophole to keep their regular, non-maintained, high mileage, worn out car on the road - without any tests. The article quoted some statistics for the number of vehicles with the "classic" tags for a few years ago vs now; something like a tenfold increase. So a new law is in the works to change the "classic car" requirements. That's where my anxiety began, as I have a few old classics registered that way. What will the new requirements be?

But then I read the proposed change, in order to quality the vehicle must also have "collectors car" insurance. Wait, that's much LESS expensive than regular insurance so wouldn't everyone with a "classic" registration already have "collectors insurance"? I know mine do. But then the article explained, insurance companies have their own requirements for which vehicles qualify for that type of insurance. And those requirements are much stricter than the state's requirements. So that will eliminate a lot of the abusers.

Whew, no change for my old vehicles. I will be able to retain the current status.
 
I have Haggarty on the X and the 90 Miata. You pick the yearly mileage and they ask if the car is garaged. I think most of us really don't put too many miles on our Fiats and more so if you have multiple older cars and have to split the time among them. Virginia does specify how your antique tagged car is driven but the cops could care less and the more conventional looking Virginia antique plate looks just like one of the normal plates.

It will be funny when I get pulled over in the X and have to explain why I have no turn signals, headlights, interior, emissions equipment and only one wiper...but I do have brake lights, horn and two mirrors!
 
To pile on to Carl's note....I have several old Italian cars, all >25 years old, and all legally on 'vintage' tags in Virginia - yet I drive them regularly and quite a bit. Yes, I'm in violation of the state rules, but my cars are well maintained (at least mechanically and electrically) and are safe to drive. I feel no qualms about letting my kids drive (most of) them.

Now compare this to Maryland next door, which has no annual safety inspection - every day on my commute to work I see MD-tagged cars with torn fenders flapping in the breeze, smashed front ends missing headlights, mufflers dragging on the highway, etc. Yet they are legally licensed and tagged according to MD.

I (and my daughter who drives the X1/9) have been pulled over several times by Virginia cops, in our old cars with 'antique' tags, solely because they were curious about the cars. No tickets, no questions about where we were going or the usage of the car, just friendly questions and a few looks around and inside the car, followed by "have a nice day, please keep the speed down". Uh huh.
 
I have Hagerty coverage for the Scorpion and the Alfa and I think making collector car insurance mandatory for classic registration is a fine idea. Where I live there are definitely cars being driven on classic plates more than just occasionally.

Here in WA, the major advantage is that you pay for classic plates once and there is no annual renewal fee, ever. That may change, as politicians are realizing how much revenue our no-income-tax state is missing out on. There's been talk about requiring classic plates renewal every five years, which many people are wildly upset about. Having moved from CA, I'm just happy I don't have to smog my classic cars any longer... I'd pay renewal fees once every five years without complaint, still sounds like a good deal to me.

Seems requiring collector car insurance here would really cut down on misuse, especially as most policies don't cover the vehicle if it's being driven to work and require covered and secured storage. In fact, the only reason I don't have a third classic car is my two-car garage and Hagerty's mandatory secured storage policy.
 
DSpieg said:
I see MD-tagged cars with torn fenders flapping in the breeze, smashed front ends missing headlights, mufflers dragging on the highway, etc.
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That is extremely common here as well, however they have regular plates/registration. Hell, I see a LOT of cars driving around with NO plates. None of this is legal but this area is very relaxed about things. I think it might be because most of the patrol officers grew up here and that's how they were raised, it has always been this way. You see them driving illegally all the time, and they tend to ignore a lot of offenses by other drivers. For example running red lights is the norm and even if done right in front of a cop nothing happens. Pretty bad, and as you might assume there are a LOT of accidents, which is why the insurance rates are incredibly high here.


RJ80 said:
I think making collector car insurance mandatory for classic registration is a fine idea.
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RJ80 said:
Seems requiring collector car insurance here would really cut down on misuse, especially as most policies don't cover the vehicle if it's being driven to work and require covered and secured storage.
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Exactly. I agree that it would be a good thing to happen here as well. It would be even more amazing if the collector plates did not have a renewal fee. Can't believe they don't have one there. But I'm like you, I don't mind paying it for the sake of not having to contend with the smog laws/tests.


DSpieg said:
but my cars are well maintained (at least mechanically and electrically) and are safe to drive
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Not only are well maintained, properly running cars safer, but they have lower emissions. There was a study done by SEMA several years ago. They found most cars owned by car collectors (with classic plates) had much lower emissions than similar cars owned by the general public (with conventional plates). The problem is those owners that are abusing the classic plate loophole to drive poorly maintained cars that won't pass the smog tests. And I think this insurance requirement might avoid that.
 
I have six cars under Hagerty. Most of them are registered on Year of Manufacture collector plates here in Washington (by the way, to do that, the car has to be 30 years old). Two of the six are not currently registered with Year of Manufacture plates. One of them has normal plates on it as, while it's 30 years old because it's a 1991, it's titled as a 93. I may fix that, I may not. It's almost 30 years old, but also I'm not sure I'm going to keep it long term (my Lancia Thema 16v Turbo 5-speed). The other one is 30 years old next summer and I will register it with YoM plates. It's currently still registered in the UK.
 
DSpieg said:
To pile on to Carl's note....I have several old Italian cars, all >25 years old, and all legally on 'vintage' tags in Virginia - yet I drive them regularly and quite a bit. Yes, I'm in violation of the state rules, but my cars are well maintained (at least mechanically and electrically) and are safe to drive. I feel no qualms about letting my kids drive (most of) them.
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All I remember is pushing your car uphill to the park in the heaviest rain ever. 😆😆
 
To be clear, Todd was pushing Dave's car not mine. Todd and I are civilized men and he trailers non running Fiats to my house.
 
Carl and Todd are worse than wives - they never forget those RARE times we messed up...……
That said, it was nice having them around when my X1/9 fuel pumped failed during a club drive (in the heavy rain, yes).

Back on topic (sort of): I have collector car insurance on my 850 Spider and Alfetta through American Collectors Insurance, they don't put any restrictions on how/how much the cars are driven, but do require them to be garage-kept (I had to send them photos showing the cars in the garage). Their rates are low, service is fine, and it is an "agreed-value" policy so I tell them what I think the car is worth, they don't argue with the valuation (if it's reasonable) but just charge me the appropriate premium.

There is no way in hell any of my old cars would pass smog, just saying. Although they all run cleaner than anything I've ever seen Carl driving 🤣
 
I will take that insult personally. Even with dual IDFs my X smokes not at all, unlike someone's 164.
Todd, this is a new event for DCfiats, we rate our club cars on how bad they smoke. Or in my case, how many people driving behind me pull over to the side of the road because the large gas tank vent hose came off the gas tank of my 128 wagon and poured raw gas into the rear left, trunk well and gassed everyone behind me.
 
I insured mine with Hagerty and I get to drive 3,500 miles per year. I'm in the high expense state of New Jersey, and what I pay for a year ($325) is less than a month's payment on my regular car insurance.
 
One of the restrictions with most collector car insurance policies is you must also have a newer car with regular registration (not classic), fully insured with a regular insurance policy (not collector), that's your daily driver. That is the clause that will eliminate most of the people around here that are abusing the classic car loophole. They only have one vehicle and it is registered as classic due to it no longer passing the smog test.

Some states also help avoid this problem by requiring the classic car to pass a one time smog test before qualifying for a classic registration. Naturally you could change things after that one time test. But that won't happen with the people I'm referring to here - the reason they are abusing the loophole in the first place is because their car will not pass any test without major work. And they cannot afford to have it done, so they will never pass the initial test to begin with.
 
Good point about the requirement for a newer car with regular registration, Dr. Jeff, I had forgotten that. Agree with your analysis.
 
Virginia requires proof of your owning a "real" car before they will issue you antique car plates. I think Dave had to go buy a Subie just to qualify for antique plates on all his other cars...note he does not list the Subie on his signature block.
 
Is it Virginia that doesn't even have titles for older cars? Possibly it is another state, but there is one that won't issue a title for anything over a specified number of years old...just a registration. I always thought that was odd.
 
Dr.Jeff said:
Is it Virginia that doesn't even have titles for older cars? Possibly it is another state, but there is one that won't issue a title for anything over a specified number of years old...just a registration. I always thought that was odd.
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A few states are like that.
 
Nope, Virginia is serious about titles and that includes getting one for a car you just bought. I have passed on many interesting Fiats that had no titles because Virginia doesn't want to talk to you without one. My brother in Maine indicates a hand written bill of sale on a dirty napkin is just fine.
 
Regarding titles in Virginia, I was able to buy and register in Virginia an Alfetta that came from Connecticut with just a bill of sale plus another document issued by Connecticut which was 'title-like' but not really a title (can't remember the details unfortunately).

Carl, I did not buy the Subaru back then just to have a modern car to make my old cars legal, I had bought it to haul kids and dogs around, in which service it performed very well. Subie (with 180K miles on it) was sold several years ago to a friend, and has been replaced with a 2017 VW Golf Sportwagen (2wd, stick shift!!) - terrific car in every way except 'fun', which somehow it just isn't. Too competent, no quirks??
 
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