Engine swap

H

Hackerjay

Daily Driver
So, while working on my Mondial a few months back, having the Scorpion sitting next to it and wanting more power, I was thinking engine swap. On Bring a Trailer right now is an engine and transmission out of a 308, any one try this?
Jay
 
Wayne Daudet said:
Just finished a Fiat 850 Standard Sedan. We put a X19 turbo. Used a V. W transaxle. We tuned to about 240 H. P to protect the transaxle. It’s been a 40 year love fest.
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Hi Wayne, welcome to the forum.
Please tell us more about your build, it sounds like a blast. I'm working on a turbo X1/9 and would like to hear the details on your engine.
 
I like the idea of the 308/328 motor in the Scorpion, Can't say why it couldn't be done. The Thema 8.32 motor is a smart choice, but it lacks what's called the "Flat Plane" crankshaft that the 308 had in its motor. That crank contributes to the characteristic sound of that motor. I can't think of a cooler recipient of the BAT motor than your Scorpion, especially as it sits next to your Mondial.

Please do it and post a lot of pics of the process, and thanks in advance!

-Chad
 
Chad, and others, I am still working on my scorpion. A 82 spider has been the topic of my recent work. But I have once again placed the 6g72 engine in the bay of my scorpion. I know it is sacrilegious. but 400hp in a scorpion will be incredible! The engine I have already built will go into #70 if it doesnt go into this one!
 
Motor sits on top of the tranny? Nice compact unit, should fit.

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saw that on BAT, the sacrilegious thing is the guy is selling the 308 engine after k swapping a Ferrari!
 
BEEK said:
saw that on BAT, the sacrilegious thing is the guy is selling the 308 engine after k swapping a Ferrari!
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It's a curious swap and I'm surprised that they wouldn't keep the original engine for the next owner. But then, Ferrari sold something like 12,000 308s. Scorpion/Montecarlo production totaled fewer than 10,000 cars.

I'm guessing they want the same thing many Scorpion and X1/9 owners want: more power and reliability in a modern and easily tunable package.

The only engine I'd potentially swap into a Scorpion down the road is an Alfa "Busso" V6 . Keeps things in the famiglia and is the second best-sounding Italian V6 engine built (the Dino V6 gets my vote for first).
 
RJ80 said:
I'm guessing they want the same thing many Scorpion and X1/9 owners want: more power and reliability in a modern and easily tunable package.
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Exactly. The stock drivetrain is not easy to live with. Especially for someone that isn't a old time enthusiast that doesn't mind waiting 20 minutes for everything to fully warm up before you can drive it. Otherwise the engine will stumble, the gear shifts will grind, and things in general feel difficult. Even worse is if the car had not been properly maintained and regularly exercised (as most weren't); the cost to rebuild the original drivetrain can be more than the value of the whole car. Not to mention the lack of power and excessive reliability issues.

For those reasons several older models like this have had swaps. There was an interesting one with a Subaru drivetrain mounted midship. Also things like a LS on a Porsche trans. Another approach is to install the drivetrain from a "modern" Ferrari, but naturally that gets very expensive....like this one:
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RJ80 said:
It's a curious swap and I'm surprised that they wouldn't keep the original engine for the next owner. But then, Ferrari sold something like 12,000 308s. Scorpion/Montecarlo production totaled fewer than 10,000 cars.

I'm guessing they want the same thing many Scorpion and X1/9 owners want: more power and reliability in a modern and easily tunable package.

The only engine I'd potentially swap into a Scorpion down the road is an Alfa "Busso" V6 . Keeps things in the famiglia and is the second best-sounding Italian V6 engine built (the Dino V6 gets my vote for first).
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Honestly the only reason i am interested in the 6g72 is I have a few. If I could find a quad cam 4 valve / cyl busso reasonable i would go that way
 
I don't think Ferrari sold the 208 over here, but i would love to have one. I like the idea of a turbo 2.0 liter engine, and I don't find using a Honda engine in a Ferrari to be an issue. I wonder what you would have to spend to bring the Ferrari 2.0 liter engine up to the same standards of the Honda engine? OK, the Honda has half the number of cylinders, but it's more modern and parts are - Honda!. Brave swap, I'll bet it'll run really well 😀.
 
I know people like that busso, but that engine is one big motor. Regarding the dino/308 motors. Did anyone see Marcello Gandini's interview. He felt the Dino engine was the worst part of the stratos.

But I am enjoying the videos. I wouldn't pick a k20 but it's his car. I wonder how he going to get around the frame issue with the driveshafts and k20 placement.
 
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I was never a fan of the ls motors until I found out people were putting them in 911s because they weighed less than the water cooled flat 6. Could you imagine a drama free 911? So now I think a ls should go in every thing. Sorry Dan.

But the 308's unique engine tranny arrangements makes transverse installations formidable as Mr k20 found out.
 
lanciahf said:
I was never a fan of the ls motors until I found out people were putting them in 911s because they weighed less than the water cooled flat 6. Could you imagine a drama free 911? So now I think a ls should go in every thing. Sorry Dan.

But the 308's unique engine tranny arrangements makes transverse installations formidable as Mr k20 found out.
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There is no such thing as a drama free 911
 
I have to admit, I'm sort of warming up to the LS thing as well. Like Ian I've never been a fan of pretty much anything to do with American vehicles. But they are getting amazing results out of that engine. However I think the aluminum version is the only one worth considering, and it has become very expensive with all the demand.
 
Dr.Jeff said:
I have to admit, I'm sort of warming up to the LS thing as well. Like Ian I've never been a fan of pretty much anything to do with American vehicles. But they are getting amazing results out of that engine. However I think the aluminum version is the only one worth considering, and it has become very expensive with all the demand.
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I think at this point all of the newer LS motors are aluminum so prices may get better. Most are direct injected. Even trucks have aluminum blocks.
An LS in under consideration for the 600.[/QUOTE]
 
Ken Haven, Honda V6
bassken.com

Where It Starts

If you’re just tuning in, the About page gives the background on this project. After considering many options, I opted for the Honda/Acura J32A2 V6 for my (latest) Scorpion swap. It’s…
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Scott Haye's Lancia Scorpiacarlo, Toyota V6 & Toyota MR2 transaxle. Have pictures, need permission to share.

For future consideration, Saab-Scania B234 & transaxle.

As for the Ferrari Dino-Vittorio Jano-Lampredi 65 degree V6, that is a mixed bag in many ways.

Good as the Honda K series is, it has a number of designed in problems. Prime one is the open deck block which is not idea for cylinder stability
under significant loading. This is a head gasket stress point and why there are aftermarket cylinder stabilizers for Honda open deck blocks.

Seemingly low tech and "old fashioned" fan of closed deck alloy_thin wall cast iron blocks. They are simply more durable trading off weight.
Unless the car is going to be an all out lowest weight possible, high buck must be competitive at any cost. IMO, that thin wall alloy cast iron closed deck block is the way to go.

Four valve pent roof cylinder head with twin cams operating the valves with buckets.

High con rod to strok ratio, preferable of 2 or more.

Aprox 88mm bore, short stroke aka way under square.

Forged steel crank, nitrided journals, large flywheel connection area with pins for flywheel location.
Two main caps per con rod for proper support. Main caps must have absolute rigidity, strength and connection to the block.

These are the basic ingredients for a good performance motor.


Bernice
 
I think MR K20 would have been better off grafting a LS to the standard ferrari trans. keeping the motor placement & driveshafts stock. But since the ferrari block mounts to the trans I doubt that is possible. Its fun to be arm chair engineers.
 
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