Euro CSC-Time Muffler

Discussion in 'Discussion Forum' started by ecohen2, May 16, 2019.

  1. ecohen2

    ecohen2 True Classic

    Location:
    Arlington Va
    As a result of a major screw up with CSC-Time I am the proud owner of a brand new CSC-Time Euro muffler. It is still in its wrapping and if I cannot resolve my issues with the distributor and company I will be selling it. Is there anyone interested in this?


    Here is the link to their products, I have the bottom muffler..

    http://www.csctime.it/index.php?mac...id=67&cntnt01productid=167&cntnt01returnid=67

    Thanks,
    Ed New.jpeg
     
  2. Eastep

    Eastep True Classic

    Location:
    PA
    Good luck with your issue.

    I've heard the CSC sounds nice..... Once...
     
  3. ecohen2

    ecohen2 True Classic

    Location:
    Arlington Va
    At one point they made fantastic products... I had a header/muffler on my Lancia Scorpion for years... Since that time they apparently have gone bankrupt twice and the father passed away. Now one of the daughters (Katia) is running the place and she lost all of the good workers. What I ended up with is a header that had uneven flanges and a muffler with loose baffles. My word of advice? Never buy anything from them unless it was made several years ago.. They are dishonest and impossible to deal with...

    I am so angry with them that I bought www.csctime.com and www.csc-marmitte.com just to write a story about what took place and publish all of the emails. They apparently forgot to renew the .com of their domain...

    Ironically the euro muffler is beautiful... It just won't match up with the header that I have...

    Ed
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2019
  4. carl

    carl True Classic

    Location:
    Virginia
    Ed, what is the muffler supposed to hook up to, the stock manifold?
     
  5. ecohen2

    ecohen2 True Classic

    Location:
    Arlington Va
    @carl if you look at the link, you will see the Euro Header that it connects too. I have no idea if the location corresponds with any other piece of tubing...
     
  6. RZSR X

    RZSR X True Classic

    Ed, I like how you are going to town on them as a disgruntled buyer!

    I order a Windsurfing board from Germany and the shipping company dbschenker and their own broker are the worst company I have ever dealt with in my life! Even though they act like they know what they are doing they are complete nincompoops. I would rank them below the CA DMV! And that's saying something. I also learned that importing anything over $2k is not worth the $$$ and frustration, at this point in time.
     
    gene cooley and ecohen2 like this.
  7. NEG

    NEG True Classic

    Location:
    UK
    My 1300 had one of these fitted when I bought it, complete system, header and muffler. Sounded nice at tick over and when you blipped the throttle but was totally unbearable when driving. It boomed and was simply far to loud especially on the freeway cruising. It also leaked at the joints and to make it fit the previous owner had to have the dog leg muffler support modified to line up with mounting bracket on the muffler.

    [​IMG]
     
  8. ecohen2

    ecohen2 True Classic

    Location:
    Arlington Va
    @NEG CSC clearly had a problem during that generation of parts. I will unwrap the muffler today and take some better photos. Your version of the setup just had sleeves and clamps between the header, pipe and pipe to muffler. It leaks like crazy! The current version has actual connectors plus the outside of it is made of really thick metal. The generation previous to yours was the style I had on my Scorpion that was coated in this black insulation stuff and was the best in my opinion. The morons at CSC have not updated the photos since the original version...

    .
     
    NEG likes this.
  9. RJ80

    RJ80 True Classic

    Location:
    Kitsap, WA
    So, the muffler is defective but CSC won't let you return it for a refund?
     
  10. ecohen2

    ecohen2 True Classic

    Location:
    Arlington Va
    Yup... I actually purchased it from a reseller in the USA who ordered from CSC.. This has been going on for about 2 years since I purchased the set. Two things were wrong from day one and I have dozens of emails, photos and video proving it. First, the thickness on the header flanges were all different, which meant I had a manifold leak. That problem was solved by having someone with more skill than I have shave down washers to make it even. Second, the baffles on the muffler rattle around, which create a horrible metal clanging noise.

    I started by going through the local reseller, but every time he promised something it didn't happen. Eventually I asked for a contact person at CSC and I have been dealing with that person directly. The CSC is in bad shape, so they may go under before I get any resolution. I would have given up on this system a long time ago, but it is really nice looking and has a high flow catalytic converter built into the muffler... The US reseller has promised me a refund if I can't get a replacement..

    Eventually I will write up everything on www.csctime.com and share it with a couple of car magazines... Kind of a lessons learned when dealing with aftermarket parts producers...
     
    RJ80 likes this.
  11. ecohen2

    ecohen2 True Classic

    Location:
    Arlington Va
    Whoohoo! I got another cryptic email from CSC this morning!

    About one a month they say that they are sending a new part...




    Begin forwarded message:

    From: CSC Time Srls <info@csctime.it>
    Subject: R: No response? Website turned on...
    Date: May 21, 2019 at 4:55:47 AM EDT
    To: 'Ed Cohen'

    Hello Mr. Cohen
    I send you a new silencer !!
    But Andy send me please the parts not good because I can control this part ok !!
    Have a nice day
    Cordiali Saluti/Best Regards
    Katia
    CSC TIME SRLS con socio unico

    Via G. Deledda 248/B
    46034 BorgoVirgilio (MN)
    P.IVA 02494000207
    Tel. +39 0376 288590

    T9K42HO(l’ultima lettera e’ una o non uno zero)

    Email: amministrazione@csctime.it
    Web: www.csctime.it
     
  12. Chris Obert

    Chris Obert autocrosser, X driver

    I picked up a large selection of CSC MARMITTE products quite a few years ago, and was very happy with what came in. And I sold most of it over the years, all without complaint (except for the price, but hey...).
    A quick check shows I still have a Lancia Beta header, and an 850 Sport exhaust system. Both of which I had originally ordered more than one of.

    About 2 years ago I restocked on a header for a fuel injected 124 Spider in the workshop, and the bung for the O2 sensor was mounted directly to interfere with the frame rail of the car! The picture of this product on my web store is correct...
    I had to have the bung relocated, which really wasn't a big deal for my welder, but was very frustrating for me as the installer. I was also unhappy with the finish quality of the flange sealing surface, but I fixed that so it would not fail gaskets. My client was also frustrated because of the additional delay in completing his project, but in the end he was happy with the product.
    Positive is it fit great (other than the above), so the main jig was accurate.

    CSC MARMITTE never responded to my concerns with their product, and your issues explain why. But they did fill my order almost immediately!
    Overall it is (probably) the same old story that is happening with all of the old Italian companies. The old generation that made the company, and continued to make it work for years, are dieing off. The family either does not want the burden of the family business (so they scrap everything or sell it off), or one of the kids/grand kids takes over. Usually the new staff has no real idea what was going on, and the quality control part of the business vaporizes. Of course, there are some positive exceptions when the family actually does better than the old guy! And some of those new owners are going out of their way to make the family dream right.
    (I wish I knew one of those kids...)

    On the silencer rattle. I purchased (from a different company) ABARTH 1000 OT muffler reproductions, and have sold a lot of them since. But wouldn't you know that the one I pulled out of the pile and put on my own Multipla rattled terribly from an internal baffle. It just so happened that I had installed it just before Concorso Italiano where I had the car on display. The company owner came up to me and introduced himself, and thanked me for the business I was doing with his company. I took him over to my Multipla, showed him I had his muffler installed, which made him smile. So I started it up. He excused himself, and came back with his engineer (who was also at the event), asked me to start it up for him, and the two of them listened (and the engineer got down on his hands and knees).
    The smile was gone.
    After a quick discussion in very rapid Italian, the owner pulled out his wallet and paid for the muffler on the spot.
    Funny thing is the silencer is still installed, and after about 5,000 miles, the rattle went away! A motor later, it still sounds great! It was nothing a bit of oily carbon couldn't fix...

    Don't give up on Katia yet!
     
    RJ80 likes this.
  13. ecohen2

    ecohen2 True Classic

    Location:
    Arlington Va
    @Chris Obert Trust me, if I didn't really like the CSC products I would not have put up with this for as long as I have. Plenty of local members and shops have heard what I am complaining about and it goes far beyond a buzz that could stop after some carbon build up. In fact as time goes on the noise has become worse.

    It has been a couple of weeks since Katia sent me the wrong replacement muffler. I emailed her multiple times and got no response. After I turned the website back on and started emailing people I got two emails from Katia. The one I posted earlier and this one:

    From: CSC Time Srls <info@csctime.it>
    Subject: R: No response? Website turned on...
    Date:
    May 21, 2019 at 6:25:42 AM EDT
    To: 'Ed Cohen'

    Hello
    In this week I send the parts
    When send me the silencer no good ???
    Cordiali Saluti/Best Regards
    Katia
    I would be thrilled if she actually sends me a new muffler that wasn't broken but I put less than 50/50 odds that it happens... If things don't get resolved in the next couple of weeks I would gladly swap you these parts for some other parts you may have.. I will either go back to the stock setup I have for my car or give another vendors header/muffler combo a try...

    Going back through my emails, it looks like early 2018 is when I first had it installed and began writing the US distributor about the manufacturing problems... This email list problems during the install before I even knew about the baffle issue...



    Begin forwarded message:

    From: Ed Cohen
    Subject: Re: Update
    Date:
    February 28, 2018 at 8:54:21 AM EST
    To: Andrew Kress <aokress@verizon.net>

    Latest update…

    So the flange on the left side of the manifold is too thick for the stud on the block. On the right side of the flange it hits the intake manifold, so that won’t sit properly. The down-tube from the manifold almost hits the driveshaft.

    The shop is going to machine the pieces and see what happens….

    More updates coming!

    Talk soon,
    Ed

    Ed
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2019
  14. carl

    carl True Classic

    Location:
    Virginia
    Chris, you are in a unique situation as a vendor who may have better relationship with parts makers as you buy in bulk. Also you have a shop with an employee who can weld. The individual who buys parts usually does not have either and in Ed's case he is stuck with a faulty part and an inept vendor who can't seem to solve the problem.
     
    ecohen2 likes this.
  15. Chris Obert

    Chris Obert autocrosser, X driver

    Carl & Ed,
    Yes, i guess I am in a better position because of volume buying. Probably more like Andrew Kress (who I assume is the original selling vendor of this product) currently is with CSC Time.
    The shop that does my specialized welding is a one man show who does amazing work. He just is not FAST, but that is because of the local Marijuana laws.

    Ed might consider sending my above comment to Andrew and Katia. One of them may be willing to open their wallet to "make it right" so Ed can go onto his next step. Whatever that might be.

    All of this, when mixed in with my personal experience with the 124 header, certainly helps me decide if restocking any CSC products is worth my time.
    If you have read my other thread on the Chinese alloy radiators, you will also understand why I am sticking with the original radiators.

    Good luck!

    BTW, thick flanges on headers shows concern about breakage or warping on the part of the manufacturer. For me, when installing headers, installing new longer studs is pretty much standard practice as I always double nut exhaust parts. On SOHC installations, making a "special washer" to compensate between the different thicknesses of the header and intake manifold is also standard procedure. And some slight "massaging" to help the two manifolds nest together to my satisfaction is also standard procedure. It's something I would expect, and it's all stuff I feel justified about charging my client for if I am performing the installation.
    But the other fitment issues Ed has documented, and especially the rattle from the muffler, is inexcusable.
     
    ecohen2 likes this.
  16. ecohen2

    ecohen2 True Classic

    Location:
    Arlington Va
    I am going to wait until the end of Friday to give Katia a chance to make good on her email. I am a fool for doing this because on at least three other occasions she said she would ship something and didn't. Andy has indicated in the past that he would refund my money if this didn't get resolved, so I will start that process next week if nothing shipped Friday...

    I would say that giving CSC over a year to make this right has been more than generous... @Chris Obert if you would like the internet domains and the parts please feel free to PM me... They actually get a considerable amount of traffic....

    Ed
     
  17. ecohen2

    ecohen2 True Classic

    Location:
    Arlington Va
    Well as I expected, it is after 5pm in Italy and I did not get a response to my email asking for a status or any shipping information... I will assume nothing is going to happen again...

    So the next question is, do I just go back to stock or should I try the Midwest header / stock muffler combo? Any thoughts?
     
  18. Ulix

    Ulix True Classic

    Location:
    Stuttgart, Germany
    My recommendation would be the Vicks header with stock muffler off a carbed car.
     
  19. ecohen2

    ecohen2 True Classic

    Location:
    Arlington Va
    Was there a difference in the mufflers?
     
  20. Ulix

    Ulix True Classic

    Location:
    Stuttgart, Germany
    I believe the Vicks header is a direct bolt on to the stock carbed muffler.
     
    ecohen2 likes this.

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