Factory power antenna switch wanted

Discussion in 'FS&W Forum' started by 7982X, May 14, 2018.

  1. 7982X

    7982X True Classic

    Location:
    Colorado
    No, I used to before tattoos became the thing. Now everybody has writing on themselves.

    The tritium vials are a neat detail! Details can really make a car. I'll have to give that some more thought.
     
  2. 7982X

    7982X True Classic

    Location:
    Colorado
    1985-1989. Some of the equipment we maintained at Storage Tech used DEC PDP11s, but I didn't have one at home until 1992.
     
  3. dllubin

    dllubin True Classic

    I worked with a guy in the 70s that was such a geek that he had a PDP8 at home.
     
  4. Dr.Jeff

    Dr.Jeff True Classic

    Location:
    Sin City
    I guess I'm not as old as I thought; I actually had to Google that to see what it was....it was before I was exposed to computers.
    When searching "PDP11", the image below came up. If girls looking like that was into computers back then, I would have gotten into it....
    images (1).jpg
     
  5. dllubin

    dllubin True Classic

    Looks like she is installing a removable hard drive disc pack. They were the size of a pizza and typically held anywhere from 2 to 20 MB depending on the generation. That stuff died pretty quick after IBM developed their "Winchester" drive technology which is where today's hard drives evolved from. I recall ordering a high capacity 50 MB drive back then. It was the size of a washing machine.
     
  6. Dr.Jeff

    Dr.Jeff True Classic

    Location:
    Sin City
    Your comments just reminded of "floppy disc's" for data storage. I'd forgotten about those.

    But gotta say, much like the guy in the picture you seem to be missing the girl standing there. For the era she would have been considered quite hot. Nothing like the (very few) girls I recall hanging out in the computer lab.
     
  7. dllubin

    dllubin True Classic

    They both look like models at a photo shoot to me. Never saw any women in short skirts changing discs back then and the guy is missing his pocket protector.
     
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  8. Dr.Jeff

    Dr.Jeff True Classic

    Location:
    Sin City
    Ya, the computer lab was not the place to pick up babes. :rolleyes:
     
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  9. raillard

    raillard True Classic

    Don't mean to forcefully bring the thread back on-topic :D but I wanted to share a few more notes and photos...

    In the past I had installed a Sony CDX-MP40 car stereo into both my '82 Fiat and my '85 Bertone. It had an antenna control wire that would energize only while listening to AM or FM radio. Made no difference to my '82 X with its semi-automatic antenna and separate switch, but after installing a fully-automatic antenna into my '85 X, and hooking up the Sony antenna control wire, it was a pleasant surprise to see the antenna stay down while listening to CDs!

    A couple of years ago I upgraded both car stereos to Pioneer DEH-X8700BH units, which added AUX / USB and bluetooth connectivity. Again the antenna control wire was unused on my '82 X, but an interesting change happened to my '85 X. The Pioneer control wire is the more common type -- it's on whenever the stereo is on. It bugged me that the antenna would now pop out even when I was listening to my CDs or USB sticks. I then added an on/off switch, so that I could decide when the stereo's antenna control signal would reach the antenna motor. You could say it became a semi-manual fully-automatic antenna.

    In the first photo below you can see how I used my blackout trim tape technique to turn a square upside-down dome light switch into my antenna switch. I had two spare dome light switches to choose from, and opted to use the one with slightly longer light rays (I'm guessing it's a slightly older style). My other spare looks just like the dome light switch that is already in my '85 X, which of course controls the door lights, instead of a dome light.

    I love the clean, uncluttered appearance of my Pioneer car stereos, but the chrome phone button, and chrome main control knob, looked too eye-catching and flashy compared to everything else in my X1/9s, so I carefully cut some round patches of blackout trim tape and applied them to the phone button and the face of the main control knob. That toned down the "blingy" look of the new stereos nicely. The second photo below shows how it looks in my '82. You can also see my semi-automatic antenna control button, which is a DPDT momentary switch, mounted into a blanking plate, with its centerline matching the other controls.

    1985-Bertone-switches.jpg 1982-X19-with-Pioneer-stereo.jpg
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2018
  10. Dr.Jeff

    Dr.Jeff True Classic

    Location:
    Sin City
    Your interiors sure look clean!

    That was the issue I had when selecting a 'new' style stereo. I wanted the features (USB, AUX, etc) but hated all the flashing colored lights, bright chrome accents, wild angled detail lines, "disco" displays. That was what really compelled me to investigate the 'old school' look with modern guts (described in my earlier post). Not finding a good solution there, I went back to searching for one that was as plain looking as possible. Unfortunately I did not find exactly what I wanted, but the next closest thing was a Sony unit. However I hated the controls and function programming on it. So next I found the Kenwood units I now have. Really like the features, controls, and performance...just wish it was a little more 'plain' looking (but its not too bad).
     
  11. raillard

    raillard True Classic

    It's kind of you to notice! I like to keep my cars tidy, and I also did a bit of vacuuming and dusting before taking the photos. In a nod to honesty I did not photoshop the cracks on the '82 dash. ;)

    Both the Sony car stereo and the Pioneer car stereo have frenetic animated display options -- the newer Pioneer even more so than the Sony. Thankfully, both stereos let you turn those effects off. The Sony display had white characters on a blue background, and it had one brightness level. The color scheme did not match anything in the X1/9 cockpits, and the brightness was affective in a sunny cockpit, but was excessively bright during nighttime driving. The Pioneer has a nighttime illumination signal wire, which not only reduces the button and display brightness, but also turns some of the lights on, even when the stereo is off, just like a modern OEM stereo. The brightness levels for both daytime and nighttime are adjustable, and the colors for the buttons and display are controllable via RGB settings, for nearly perfect matches to whatever cockpit lighting you have. Last year I added 5k white LEDs for my cockpit lighting inside both cars. In my earlier photo you can see that I removed the green covers for the main dashboard lights, so the dials are bathed in 5k white light as well. You can also see that I adjusted the Pioneer color settings to match.

    My Pioneer displays its clock even when the stereo is off, and displays the time even when playing music. This prompted me to replace the old digital clock in my '82 X with a blanking plate.

    The clean appearance of my Pioneer stereo is partly due to the fact that there is no front Aux or USB ports -- they're in the back. Pioneer provides separate extension cables, but they're not designed to be mounted. On eBay I found combined Aux/USB sockets in an attractive plastic rectangle with 3' wires to reach the back of the stereos. I bought a pair of them, one for each X. I removed the glovebox inserts, and then used a Dremel tool to cut rectangular holes into them. The Aux/USB sockets were inserted into the holes and epoxy was applied to the back to keep them in place. When reinstalling the glovebox liners I threaded the wires behind the mounting brackets and into the radio area. They plug into the back of the stereos before sliding the stereos into place. The first photo below shows the Aux/USB socket in my '82 glovebox. It looks even nicer in the flocked glovebox of my '85 Bertone. The second photo shows my '85 glovebox together with a typical Aux cable, and not-so-typical USB memory-stick (a PNY with a cute "monkey-tail").

    Last year, before bidding on my used 2013 Fiat 500e, I found an online owners manual and was pleased to see that the Aux/USB socket looks very similar to the ones I added to my two X1/9s, and is also in the glovebox. The third photo below is of my 500e glovebox.

    1982-Aux-USB.jpg 1985-Aux-USB.jpg 2013-Aux-USB.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2018
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  12. Dr.Jeff

    Dr.Jeff True Classic

    Location:
    Sin City
    The Sony I tried was very similar to what you described, lack of ability to control the lights, etc., and it was difficult to use (terrible interface). The Kenwood I replaced it with is more like your Pioneer, I'm able to get the display more civil looking and better functioning. One of my quirks is I did NOT want a CD player now that I have all of my music stored digitally. Oddly that limited my choices significantly, which meant less chance of getting everything I desired. It still isn't perfect but works great and for the price I'm quite impressed (I remember in the '80s car stereos cost more than home systems).
     
  13. raillard

    raillard True Classic

    As much as I love my new Pioneer stereos, the User Interface is also modern, and modern is not always better, especially while driving a car. The older Sony stereos had more buttons, but it was easy to set a CD track to repeat, for example, with a single button press. On my newer Pioneer stereos the option to repeat the current track is buried several layers deep on the menu you access from the "all-powerful" control knob. They're borrowing that idea from Apple, which popularized the concept when they introduced the iPod many years ago. You can google "onion macbook wheel" for a humorous video about Apple taking the single control knob to the extreme!

    I took the photo of my '85 Bertone cockpit buttons, and photoshopped it a bit, to compare several possible antenna button ideas. I also wanted to clarify how I use blackout trim tape for such projects. I'm not sure it's clear from my earlier comments, but I don't cut lots of tiny pieces of tape and cover the original ideogram piecemeal. Instead, I use a single patch of blackout trim tape and cut a hole in the middle to reveal the part of the old ideogram that I still want to see. The blackout trim tape is also good at blocking the backlight from getting through the parts of the ideogram I don't want to see anymore -- not even during the night.

    For comparison sake I also photoshopped a factory issue antenna motor button into the group. Personally, I like my easier-to-recognize, representational antenna buttons better. On the factory button I can see the antenna itself, but I'm wondering what the horseshoe represents? I'm guessing a magnet, maybe, to represent an electric motor? Certainly one can get used to it, but it's not 100% clear.

    It should be pointed out that all of the switches shown, including the factory switch, are on/off style, and would only be used to control a fully-automatic antenna motor. The switch could be connected to any 12v source, but it's better to connect it between the stereo's antenna/accessory control wire and the antenna motor. That way, if the antenna is out, and the car or stereo are turned off, the antenna will also retract, but it will not poke out unless the antenna switch is on.

    Antenna-switch-ideograms.png
     
    7982X likes this.
  14. 7982X

    7982X True Classic

    Location:
    Colorado
    Very clever & creative with the blackout tape! Your switches look really, really good. I was an electromechanical tech for a number of years (even earned my first class radiotelephone license) and if I ever understood that "official" logo, I've forgotten it! That style logo is on the switch we ordered from Italy. We just wanted a switch that looked "like it belonged there" and was a double momentary unit. We'll see when it gets here. Our mail carrier said that it took 2 months to get some post cards from Italy to the U.S. We have only been waiting 3 or 4 weeks so far.
     
  15. Dr.Jeff

    Dr.Jeff True Classic

    Location:
    Sin City
    To me a lot of Fiat's ideograms are unclear, or at least not as clear as they could/should be.

    A big plus to ordering the 'real' switch from Italy is the functionality of it; having the proper positions and contacts to do what you want.
    Unfortunately I've heard horror stories about the Italian postal services. And the shipping quotes I've been given from Italian sellers always seems ridiculously high. I guess just be patient.
     
  16. 7982X

    7982X True Classic

    Location:
    Colorado
    The cost, with shipping was only a little over $20.00. I think the shipping was around $4.00-$5.00, which I thought was very reasonable. We'll see how long it takes to get here. I have plenty of other stuff to keep me busy until then. I am looking forward to confirming the functionality & fit when it does arrive.
     
  17. Dr.Jeff

    Dr.Jeff True Classic

    Location:
    Sin City
    Wow, that is much lower shipping cost than I'd expect. Nice.
     
  18. raillard

    raillard True Classic

    I think electrically you'll be in great shape. I recently noticed on Chris Obert's store website, and Henk Martens' store website, replacement power window switches, and if you study them closely you'll see the antenna icon, instead of the window icon (see the first two photos below). Chris shows both the front and back of the switch, and it has the same pin layout as the regular power window switch, so I'm thinking they're electrically identical. The icon on Henk's switch looks like it might be painted over to make it a generic motor up/down switch, suitable for either task.
    FiatPlus--5928775.jpg x19parts.nl--power-window-switch.PNG

    I don't know if the connector you have in your car is a match, but I'm sure you'll be able to make the wires work. I don't remember removing connectors from my '82 and '85 antenna motor wires. In any case both cars were getting custom switch treatments, and I would have tossed the connectors if there were any.

    If you put the new European antenna switch into one of the vertical spots above the stick shift, I think you'll find the antenna icon will be on its side, rotated 90 degrees. It's meant for a Fiat Ritmo, and if you do a Google Image search for Ritmo interiors you'll see that older ones use the rectangular switches, but they're all horizontal. If you have manual windows, you could put the antenna switch into one of the X1/9 power window switch spots below the stick shift, but that would probably give it a visual importance way above its actual function -- it ought be with the rest of the switches.

    Last year I replaced the two power window switches in my '85 Bertone with the newer style switches. I bought mine new via eBay, but MWB currently sells them new, too. They have wonderfully smooth action! You can see them in the third photo below. I think the newer style works better visually, too -- they complement the square buttons more than the older style. My '82 Fiat, on the other hand, has the older style rectangular switches throughout. My '82 also has manual windows, and blanking plates where the power window switches would go. That means I have a couple of spare power window switches, and if you would like me to make a custom antenna switch for you just let me know. I'd love to give my blackout trim tape idea a try (fourth photo below), but feel no need to replace my cute custom DPDT antenna switch in my '82 X.
    MWB--22392.jpg power-window-to-antenna-switch-ideogram.png
     
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  19. Dr.Jeff

    Dr.Jeff True Classic

    Location:
    Sin City
    Nice catch seeing the "antenna" symbol on those power window switch listings. The one in your second picture might have been made without the white paint on the symbol, or the paint might have been removed (easy to do). But the symbol's impression is visible.
    And you seem to have some skill at taping/cutting them. I don't think I could cut the lines that cleanly and accurately. But I am curious what 'trim tape' are you referring to and what you cut it with?

    I had not noticed the 'newer' style of power window switches before (haven't needed any). But I can understand what you mean by them feeling smoother. The old switch design (internally) is rather poor in my opinion. Don't think I've ever found that design inside any other manufacturers switches. And it does not seem to work very well (again, in my opinion).
     
  20. raillard

    raillard True Classic

    I believe the ideograms of all of the Fiat/Bertone switches are made of white translucent plastic embedded in the opaque black plastic of the switch face, so that the white plastic can act as a light-pipe. The rectangular switches have a square hole in the back, which holds a special plastic clip that holds the fiber optic cable for back-lighting. (The square switches have embedded lamps inside each switch instead.) The interface between the white plastic and the black plastic is usually not perfectly smooth. It has a bit of roughness to it, which you can feel with your fingertips (or which you can trace over, with a soft pencil on a small piece of paper laying on top of it, to serve as an accurate template for cutting a mask!)

    Looking even more closely at Henk's switch (2nd photo above), I think I see blackout trim tape covering the left part of the switch -- its right-hand edge is about 1 or 2 mm away from the first rocker-bump opening on the left. The tape is probably thin enough to show a bit of the rough edges of the ideogram plastic embedded in the switch face plastic. I think that's what I mistook for black paint on the icon.

    Even as a youngster I enjoyed dabbling in graphic arts -- still do! I use TrimBright Blackout Tape "Self Adhesive Tape to Conceal Chrome Accent Trim", from the local O'Reilly. I'm also planning to try some self-adhesive black plastic sheets that are sold by Tap Plastics to cover blackboards. It's almost as thin as the Blackout Tape, and has a little bit more texture to it. The tools I use are a light table, with a translucent cutting board surface, an X-Acto knife, and an Ulano swivel knife. The Swiss-made swivel knife allows me to make precision curved cuts. I bought it many years ago to help me cut airbrush frisket film masks, back when I was still dabbling in airbrush art. I'm pretty sure a Fiskars fingertip swivel knife would be up to the job, as well.
     
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