Factory power antenna switch wanted

Two more comments to add to my notes above:

The antenna control switch should definitely not be put into the X1/9's power window switch spots, for the simple reason that you would loose the super-intuitive up-is-up and down-is-down functionality that you can get from the vertical placement of the switch. The visual orientation of the switch icon is totally unimportant compared to physical ease-of-use.

I also wanted to mention one more tool that is super-useful for this kind of project. It's called a lifter. It looks a little bit like an X-Acto knife, but the blade is not sharp. It's not meant for cutting, but the beveled edges easily gets under sticky things, such as blackout tape, and lifts them off their backing paper. It's also very useful for carefully positioning a piece of tape over a surface before rubbing the tape down onto the surface. It is another tool used by airbrush artists (and comic book artists for screentones, if they're not using computers).
 
Last edited:
Thanks for the info on artist tools, etc. Funny, I own way more tools than any person should ever need. But I'm constantly learning about things like this that make me realize how much more is out there. And based on the experience of the stuff I have, it certainly helps to have the right tool for the job. Just wish I had the artistic skills to do this type of fine work.

And I stand corrected about the removal of the images on these switches. I was thinking of ones from other project cars where the white image is printed on top of the switch, which tend to wear off and are easily removed.

Side note. On my '85 X the power window switches are located below the shifter, down at the bottom of the console (factory location). So they are sideways, and yes their function is not intuitive...especially since the switch can be installed in either direction. Although the ideograms are orientated for sideways mounting, like a lot of Fiat's controls they are not extremely intuitive either (in my opinion). Back before the career change into medicine I spent several years with my MBA in corporate management. While in the engineering department of a aerospace company I was involved in a ergonomics program for control panels (space shuttle design). Back then most controls were still manual or mechanical and things like the orientation of switches was a big part of the research. So I tend to notice how poorly many car dash controls are laid-out. Frankly the X's has a LOT of room for improvement.
 
"Funny, I own way more tools than any person should ever need. But I'm constantly learning about things like this that make me realize how much more is out there. And based on the experience of the stuff I have, it certainly helps to have the right tool for the job."

I feel the same way sometimes.....but then I get into a job that needs one of those tools in the back of the bottom drawer and I remember why I have all of those tools. When I was growing up, my dad had only one power tool... a sander, and the rest of his tools would fit in an oversized lunch box.

The antenna switch will be with the rest of the switches (including a factory fog light switch) above the ash tray. Then we have 3 other switches to figure out locations for. I thought about the "bottom" of the console, where the power window switches go but thought the same thing....the orientation doesn't seem to "fit". One of the 3 switches will be a DPDT rocker switch, much like the antenna switch, to raise & lower the engine cover, and the sideways orientation just rubs me the wrong way also. Toying with the idea of a panel replacing the ash tray (we don't smoke and don't have any money to store in there either) or a panel under the ash tray (in case we start smoking or come into some money and need the ash tray), which would intrude into the small storage pocket already there. At least the switches could be mounted vertically. We'll see.

Art tools sound interesting, but I am not allowed to have sharp objects. I even cut my finger on the edge of a sanding belt today.....
 
I like your humor.
The thing about having so many tools is I actually forget about many of them when the times comes that I could have used it. Then later I happen across it and think, idiot. Seriously, I have tools that I've owned for decades and never used.

With the extremely limited amount of storage spots in these cars, I'd say don't take up any of the existing storage pocket. Even replacing the ash-tray might be regretted when you find that you need to carry something that you don't want out in the open; house key, emergency pocket knife, whatever. But that would be easy to let go compared to other locations. Maybe the ash-tray could be converted to a "pull-out" switch pod so the switches are hidden normally?

switch, to raise & lower the engine cover
Nice!
 
And I stand corrected about the removal of the images on these switches. I was thinking of ones from other project cars where the white image is printed on top of the switch, which tend to wear off and are easily removed.

I actually had the same mistaken impression about the square buttons in my '85 Bertone. The white icons looked slightly flaky -- almost like cracking or peeling paint. I think it's possible that some non-opaque white paint might be painted on top of the white plastic, or the plastic is just aging and looking strangely paint-like as it gets older. When I bought the car none of the square button icons were lit up anymore. I didn't even realize they were supposed to light up, and was surprised to discover a light bulb holder inside each square switch, each with a burnt-out little bulb. I imagine them failing, one-by-one, as the previous three owners drove the car, and it's a fact that getting into the switches to replace the bulbs is fussy work, best dealt with by procrastinating. I've eliminated that problem altogether by replacing the bulbs with more fiber optic cables, just like in an older X1/9. Eventually I hope to start a new thread to share some ideas and pictures about that project.

Side note. On my '85 X the power window switches are located below the shifter, down at the bottom of the console (factory location). So they are sideways, and yes their function is not intuitive...especially since the switch can be installed in either direction. Although the ideograms are orientated for sideways mounting, like a lot of Fiat's controls they are not extremely intuitive either (in my opinion).

I agree. On the older-style switch the window up/down icon looks good, but they still needed to paint arrows on the rocker buttons so that we know which one to press. On the newer switches, the up-down arrows of the window icon matches the up-down placement of the rocker switch, and it would also match the up-down orientation of the real world if the button is mounted vertically, instead of horizontally. I've considered modifying the button bracket of my '85 Bertone so that I could move the power window switches up to it. That would also require moving a bit of the wiring harness, and the two fiber optic cables. I'm only using 4 of the 8 squares on the button bracket, so there would be just enough room to accommodate the two vertical rectangular switches. Once again it's time to photoshop my Bertone button area to see what it might look like:
1985-X19-vertical-window-switches.png

From a usability point of view I can't think of a better placement. I'm sure the newer switches are meant for a Fiat that has them in this vertical placement, because now the buttons, the icons, and the real world all mesh together beautifully!

Back before the career change into medicine I spent several years with my MBA in corporate management. While in the engineering department of a aerospace company I was involved in a ergonomics program for control panels (space shuttle design). Back then most controls were still manual or mechanical and things like the orientation of switches was a big part of the research. So I tend to notice how poorly many car dash controls are laid-out. Frankly the X's has a LOT of room for improvement.

I love how buttons and knobs, and other controls, are slowly evolving towards perfection. An early example of good man-machine interface design is the landing gear knob in an airplane. It now looks like a small rubber wheel, and if you pull it down the landing gear goes down. It doesn't get much more intuitive than that! Many modern cars have admirable power window switches. The Hondas that my brothers own have switches that you can push slightly down, or grab an edge, with a fingertip, and pull slightly up. Of course down makes the window go down, and up makes the window go up, just like one would hope. I'll eventually start another thread in the Nuova 500 area about how the 500e (probably the whole 500 family) somehow managed to get it backwards, and what the owner can do about it.

If we keep the X1/9 power window switches in their normal home, there's still another man-machine interface trick we can press into service -- touch! The newer switch has two pits or indents on the rocker switch, which are easy to feel, so you know where to press to rock the switch. You could add a small drop of some glue-like substance, such as Sugru, which would harden into a bump. You could even fill the whole pit with Sugru, and keep going until you've turned the pit into a rubberized bump instead. Your fingertip will feel the presence of the bump, and know that the window will go up when pressing that side. Many modern cars have power window switches designed like that. It's very intuitive. With the older style switch the indents are replaced with rocker bumps, so here we could Dremel or file down a small valley on the top of the downward button. Your fingertip will be able feel the slight depression in the middle of the "mountain", and know that the window will go down when pressing that side. Below is a photoshop of how these ideas might look:
Tactile-power-window-switches.png

Adding tactile feedback would allow you to operate the two window switches without looking at them. The switches for the two windows are far enough apart, and there are nearby surfaces and edges that can give your hands and fingers clues that you've found the switch you want. Then simply feel for the bump or indent, and your finger can find the correct button to press for up or down, all without looking at the switches.
 
Last edited:
Eventually I hope to start a new thread to share some ideas and pictures about that project.
Please do, we love that kind of stuff.



I love how buttons and knobs, and other controls, are slowly evolving towards perfection.
Although not always. Think back a couple years ago when BMW introduced the single-wheel-does-everything "iDrive". That was a complete fail. And years of trying to improve it have made it only slightly better. So newer designs aren't always better.



Adding tactile feedback would allow you to operate the two window switches without looking at them.
The tactile idea is good. Perhaps something could be 3D printed then glued onto the switch.
 
Although not always. Think back a couple years ago when BMW introduced the single-wheel-does-everything "iDrive". That was a complete fail. And years of trying to improve it have made it only slightly better. So newer designs aren't always better.
I should have emphasized "slo-o-o-wly evolving towards perfection". :) I still think the general trend is upwards, but it's true that there are plenty of examples of de-evolution in design, too. I still remember when Microsoft introduced Windows XP. When I saw the need to click a Start button before we could click a Shut Down button I thought to myself, "Are you kidding me?" and now, as a computer tech, I'm totally nostalgic about it! In some cases we get used to the abuse. :D
 
The new-style power window switches, if moved above the stick shift in the X1/9, would look and feel remarkably similar to the arrangement in my 500e! It's tempting. They say that "consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds". I must confess I like consistency. Why else would I adore the fact that all three of my cars have Aux/USB jacks on small plastic rectangles hiding inside their gloveboxes? If only my two X1/9's also had glowing "Aux USB" labels between the connectors, just like my 500e, then I could die a happy man! :D

The first photo below is similar to the one I shared above, but I spent a few more minutes photoshopping the power window switches, to better match the lighting in the original image.

1985-X19-vertical-window-switches-take2.jpg 500e-window-swtiches.jpg
 
Joking: Have you ever been treated for your OCD? :D I know I need to be treated for mine. :eek:

Nice work, but I think the proportions between the two images are slightly different. Maybe you can fix that. (joking again). ;)
 
Joking: Have you ever been treated for your OCD? :D I know I need to be treated for mine. :eek:
I don't suffer from OCD -- I enjoy every minute of it! Does self-medication count? "Take two X1/9s and a 500e and call me in the morning." :D

Nice work, but I think the proportions between the two images are slightly different. Maybe you can fix that. (joking again). ;)
The second photo is one I took today, because the photo I already had was an even poorer match (no joke). Now I'll have to go take an even better one (joking -- maybe).
 
The console switch layout in your last post (for the 85??) looks great!
 
The console switch layout in your last post (for the 85??) looks great!
Thanks! It is from my Bertone '85 cockpit, with the mock-up created via Corel PhotoPaint. The newer-style power window switches complement the square buttons even when sitting right next to them. The older style rocker switch would not work well, visually, especially if you consider the icon would be laying on its side again. It's worth doing a bit of exploring, to see if each side of the button bracket could be safely and easily modified to hold a rectangular switch instead of a pair of square switches.
 
Joking: Have you ever been treated for your OCD? :D I know I need to be treated for mine. :eek:
On a more serious note, I want to share the following thought: OCD is only a problem if it's not properly harnessed, or if it's getting in the way of enjoying life. I attribute my own fussiness / perfectionism to my Swiss blood. In olden days I could have used that personality trait to become a great watchmaker, for example. That's what I mean by harnessing the trait. It's okay to treat it as a problem or symptom -- something that needs to be corrected -- if it actually gets in the way of our own happiness, but consider the possibility that it might actually be a gift waiting to be shared with the rest of us. I'm a freelance computer tech, and I sometimes tell my clients, "Don't worry, I have Swiss blood in me. The problem will be dealt with properly."

EDIT: Last Friday, one of the secretaries of one of my computer clients said, with all sincerity, “Thank you for your OCD.” The previous weekend I had finished a wiring project for them, and it had turned out well.
 
Last edited:
The new-style power window switches, if moved above the stick shift in the X1/9, would look and feel remarkably similar to the arrangement in my 500e! It's tempting. They say that "consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds". I must confess I like consistency.
My older brother reminded me that Emerson's original quote includes a couple of important words that I, and other people, often drop: "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds." It's clear that Emerson did not think poorly of consistency, per se. However, it's also clear to me that some of the things I would like to be consistent still border on the foolish. :D

Also, I wanted to share a couple of photos just in case anyone is interested in seeing some of the artist tools I use, and plan to use, instead of just reading about them. The first photo shows my Ulano swivel knife (Swiss), my Ulano lifter (Italian), and an artist's clay sculpting tool, which was a bit more expensive than a lifter, but works even better than my original lifter. I had lost my old lifter for a while, and didn't find a replacement in the art stores, hence the sculpting tool pressed into service, and proving itself even better at the task. When the old lifter was missing I realized that I consider it an indispensable tool.

My Ulano swivel knife is getting a bit dull, and the tiny blades are specially made for it. I may eventually hunt down a source of those blades, but meanwhile I bought a modern Japanese swivel knife, and plenty of spare blades to go with it. I found them a couple of Sundays ago, when I was in Japan Center in San Francisco. Another tool caught my eye, and I bought it, too. A circle cutter. It's the orange thing in the second photo below. It's from the same company, using the same small Japanese blades. The circle cutter spins around a pin-point, sort of like a compass (not the type with needles pointing North and South, but the other kind). The adjustable range of circular cuts is not that large (2 to 15 cm), but I still think it will be useful, and it was not that expensive. I look forward to trying them out.
current-tools.jpg new-cutting-tools.jpg
 
Last edited:
There is a vendor who sells the late model switches, never ordered from him but he does have a variety.

http://www.okaauto.com/x19parts.htm

He apparently no longer has any of the switches for the antenna but perhaps some of the other ones could suffice.
 
Regarding OKA Auto, a couple years ago I tried to contact them about an item but never got a response. Then I did a little digging and I'm not 100% certain if they are even a real business?? No proof they are not, but at that time there was no evidence they are. Hopefully that has changed and others have better luck with them. Just say'n to do a little homework before sending any money.
 
Regarding OKA Auto,
That is still Miro Kefurt of MIK Automotive fame. (one of the last Bertone dealers in US)
Still has that SynLube website going as well. He is trustworthy as I've gotten switches from him no trouble about a year ago.
 
Thanks Greg, good to know. Back when I was attempting to get in contact, it appeared he was into some sort of electric car venture. Perhaps that was consuming all of his attention at the time.
 
Back
Top