Fiat 500 Abarth Brakes installed on X1/9

[Mark]

Do you know what these are from:

Those are Lada 2110 brake rotors. Should be the same rotors as the kit Vicks sold.

 

[fastfiat81]

Do you know what these are from:

Lada 2112

 

[Mark]

Thanks. Good to know if I ever need a replacement. I got them from Classic Ricambi and have their brake kits on both my 124 Spider and a Scorpion. They work very well. I’d like to find what caliper they used so I can make another set.

Lada 2112

 

[fastfiat81]

Thanks. Good to know if I ever need a replacement. I got them from Classic Ricambi and have their brake kits on both my 124 Spider and a Scorpion. They work very well. I’d like to find what caliper they used so I can make another set.

Yes I am trying to duplicate your setup. Wasn't Classic Ricambi DJ Richards? Someone here (perhaps you?) posted a photo of his brake kit installed on a car. I recognized the calipers and will probably go that direction. Do you mind posting a photo of the bracket classic ricambi fabricated to mount the caliper?

 

[Ulix]

Ulix, the combination that Tony found to work best for his application was a combination of Abarth calipers and Pop rotors. So I assume that is what you are referring to. And it is my understanding the calipers do bolt directly to the X1/9 spindles (uprights) without adapter brackets, but the holes in the X1/9 spindle need to be enlarged to match the bolt size for the Abarth calipers.

One listing shows these OEM part numbers for Pop (240mm) rotors: 424973, 424974, 4249L2, 46401356, 46542383, 46831041, 5154237AA, 901084, 19298584. [5154237AA seems to come up most often]

For the calipers it is a little more uncertain. The listings I looked at were not clear between Pop, Abarth, and other options (eg. electric with regenerative brakes). Furthermore there are different numbers depending on the color (eg. silver, red, etc), but the color does not necessarily dictate the application (Abarths are typically red, but you can get red Pop calipers and silver Abarth ones). And the only part numbers I saw were Mopar replacement numbers, which might be different from the generic OEM part numbers. Plus some include the carrier brackets (i.e. rebuilt units) but most do not (i.e. new) - which means two numbers are needed (one for the bracket and one for the caliper). This was a US source so I assume they are for the US spec components. Here are some of the Mopar numbers they showed:

Abarth carrier bracket (left or right): 68174160AB.
Abarth caliper w/o bracket: 68165985AB (left), 68165984AB (right).

And as if that wasn't already vague enough, I seem to recall there are different calipers for the early models vs later ones ??? The ones I posted were for 2017.

Hopefully someone can offer better data on this.

Ok, so These numbers:
424973, 424974, 4249L2, 46401356, 46542383, 46831041
are all for the 257mm Rotors.
The rest of your numbers I cannot find at all.

The Mopar numbers don't come up at all, only on US eBay.
This makes sense since the listings I found for Abarth calipers show that the Abarth brakes are made by Bosch!
So it looks like US Abarths got different brakes than euro Abarths.
The Bosch Abarth calipers show these specs:
Piston Diameter: 54mm
Rotor thickness: 22mm
Rotor Diameter: 284mm

 

[TonyK]

Okay the last few things to cover. First off the X is using 10MM x 1.25 bubble flare nuts on the brake lines and I was not able to find adapters to the Abarth brake hoses that have 10MMx 1mm thread. I cut the bubble off and changed the nuts. I did find adapter that go from 10MMx 1.25 to 10MMx 1mm to switch back to the stock set up. Also a flat needs to be ground on to the brake hose to fit the mounts on the X. See Pictures.

TonyK

Grimsby Ontario Canada

 

[Dr.Jeff]

I cut the bubble off and changed the nuts. I did find adapter that go from 10MMx 1.25 to 10MMx 1mm to switch back to the stock set up. Also a flat needs to be ground on to the brake hose to fit the mounts on the X

Tony, that is with using the stock 500 hoses, correct?

I suppose other approaches could be:

1) Use the X1/9 hoses and adapt the other end of the hose to the caliper. Maybe retap the caliper to match the hose. Or even better, use the banjo style X1/9 hoses with a bolt that matches the 500 caliper thread.

2) Have hoses made with the corresponding ends to match both the chassis and the caliper. Probably the best answer if you also want S/S lines and want to keep it "reversible".

3) Change the nuts on the hard lines to a standard flare style with common US threads and use universal S/S hoses, then adapt the caliper to match the hose. The use of a banjo fitting on the caliper makes this easy. Just use a banjo bolt that matches the existing caliper thread, then a -AN style banjo like this:

 

[Dr.Jeff]

Ok, so These numbers:
424973, 424974, 4249L2, 46401356, 46542383, 46831041
are all for the 257mm Rotors.
The rest of your numbers I cannot find at all.

Ulix, interesting that the numbers came up a different rotor. I wonder if that is a US vs Europe change or the listings from the source I used are wrong, or there are different rotors for the same numbers, or ???

I definitely recall that the US spec Abarth version 500 has different brakes than the general market (eg. Euro). And that matches what you found with those numbers. Someone said the US spec Abarth brakes are from Mexico but I don't know the brand. And I don't recall if the base model 500 was different in the US or not.

This raises a question with Tony's brake conversion. Tony is in Canada and his parts were Canadian sourced. Are the Canadian listings the same as the US spec or the Euro spec Abarth brakes?

 

[Dr.Jeff]

I got them from Classic Ricambi and have their brake kits on both my 124 Spider and a Scorpion. They work very well.

Yes I am trying to duplicate your setup. Wasn't Classic Ricambi DJ Richards? Someone here (perhaps you?) posted a photo of his brake kit installed on a car. I recognized the calipers and will probably go that direction.

Do you guys mind sharing more details about this package? If needed a new thread can be started.

Also, FastFiat81, I'm curious how you identified the application for the rotors that Mark showed? When I searched those part numbers it did not come back with anything. Vice versa, when I searched Lada 2110 and 2112 rotors I did not find those numbers. But my search was limited. Thanks.

 

[Mark]

This should be a new thread. I was only attempting to identify another source for a rotor that would work with Tony’s conversion.

Do you guys mind sharing more details about this package? If needed a new thread can be started.

Also, FastFiat81, I'm curious how you identified the application for the rotors that Mark showed? When I searched those part numbers it did not come back with anything. Vice versa, when I searched Lada 2110 and 2112 rotors I did not find those numbers. But my search was limited. Thanks.

 

[Dr.Jeff]

This should be a new thread. I was only attempting to identify another source for a rotor that would work with Tony’s conversion.

Agreed. Would you be willing to start that thread and share more about the brakes you mentioned? Or have they already been discussed in one of the prior brake upgrade threads? Thanks Mark.

 

[Dr.Jeff]

I was only attempting to identify another source for a rotor that would work with Tony’s conversion.

The reason I was asking about the identification of the rotors you posted is I found Lada 2112 brakes to be 240mm, not 260mm. So I'm wondering if your rotors were correctly identified? Although my source of info could also be wrong.

 

[lidox19]

Hi Tony,
Looking at the photos at the start of the thread it looks like the pads over hang outer rim of the disc. Also in some of the latest photos it looks like the you could fit a larger diameter disc in the pad carrier/bracket. Why have you chosen the 240mm disc? I would guess that a 257mm disc would fit as it only adds 8.5mm to the radius. If a larger disc would fit it would not make any difference to the min wheel size as the caliper is the controlling factor and that is already fixed by the carrier/bracket.

Just curious.
Andy

 

[TonyK]

Hi Tony,
Looking at the photos at the start of the thread it looks like the pads over hang outer rim of the disc. Also in some of the latest photos it looks like the you could fit a larger diameter disc in the pad carrier/bracket. Why have you chosen the 240mm disc? I would guess that a 257mm disc would fit as it only adds 8.5mm to the radius. If a larger disc would fit it would not make any difference to the min wheel size as the caliper is the controlling factor and that is already fixed by the carrier/bracket.

Just curious.
Andy

Well I started with what I had and what could easily be obtained. The pad hangs slightly over the disk. Not sure where I could purchase a 257MM rotor. I do not want to pay in US dollars or pay for shipping, so this is where it ended up. I am unsure if the 257MM disk will fit or what car it is off of.

TonyK.

Grimsby Ontario Canada.

 

[TonyK]

Tony, that is with using the stock 500 hoses, correct?

I suppose other approaches could be:

1) Use the X1/9 hoses and adapt the other end of the hose to the caliper. Maybe retap the caliper to match the hose. Or even better, use the banjo style X1/9 hoses with a bolt that matches the 500 caliper thread.

2) Have hoses made with the corresponding ends to match both the chassis and the caliper. Probably the best answer if you also want S/S lines and want to keep it "reversible".

3) Change the nuts on the hard lines to a standard flare style with common US threads and use universal S/S hoses, then adapt the caliper to match the hose. The use of a banjo fitting on the caliper makes this easy. Just use a banjo bolt that matches the existing caliper thread, then a -AN style banjo like this:
View attachment 22220

Stock Fiat 500 Abarth brake hoses. There are a lot of options, but everything costs money. Changing then nuts was the $2 option for each side. Remember anything can be done as long as you keep throwing money at it.


TonyK.

Grimsby Ontario Canada.

 

[Dr.Jeff]

Looking at the photos at the start of the thread it looks like the pads over hang outer rim of the disc. Also in some of the latest photos it looks like the you could fit a larger diameter disc in the pad carrier/bracket. Why have you chosen the 240mm disc? I would guess that a 257mm disc would fit

Andy, I'll add a little to what Tony already said. I wondered a similar question earlier in this process. It seems the overlap between the pads and 240mm disk is only around 1 or 2mm (if I'm recalling correctly). So a rotor larger than say 245mm would be adding more weight but not more braking capability (except possibly the increased mass could handle greater thermal loads). That is unless you moved the caliper farther away from the centerline to increase the effective force. But that would then make the whole package larger requiring bigger wheels. And I do not believe there is a common 245mm Fiat rotor. Therefore it looks like a 240mm rotor offers a decent compromise with readily available parts.

On a similar note, I've been noticing the availability of 257mm rotors here in the US is rather limited. Keep in mind we never got a lot of the nice Fiat models you did, so it would be very different for you in the UK. The shipping cost for us to import the larger rotors from Europe makes them not as practical for the most part. Unless someone else has identified a good 257mm Fiat rotor option that is readily available here? Anyone?

Similar thing with some of the caliper options. There were/are several models in Europe that had great calipers that are a bolt on replacement for the X1/9, with more modern design features. But again, we did not get them so they have to be shipped in...bringing the cost significantly higher. Makes it not as practical for us unfortunately.

 

[Dr.Jeff]

Stock Fiat 500 Abarth brake hoses. There are a lot of options, but everything costs money. Changing then nuts was the $2 option for each side. Remember anything can be done as long as you keep throwing money at it.

I completely agree. Perhaps I should have stated my comments more clearly:

For my first option, IF the 500 hoses were not already available but the X1/9 hoses were (eg. I only bought the 500 calipers and rotors, not a complete car to pick parts from), then adapting the X1/9 hose to the 500 calipers could be done.

For my options 2 and 3, IF someone wanted to upgrade to S/S brake hoses anyway, then there might be other options to adapt the caliper threads to the X threads.

Sorry if it sounded like I was questioning your approach...I was not.

 

[fastfiat81]

Do you guys mind sharing more details about this package? If needed a new thread can be started.

Also, FastFiat81, I'm curious how you identified the application for the rotors that Mark showed? When I searched those part numbers it did not come back with anything. Vice versa, when I searched Lada 2110 and 2112 rotors I did not find those numbers. But my search was limited. Thanks.

I'll start a new post in Workshop outlining what I have found. If you blow up the boxes in the photos you can still read the numbers under the blacked out or white sticker. I will outline all the part numbers that I have found relating to LADA stuff. It makes since anyway as Mark kindly sent me a photo of his setup and they are indeed LADA calipers and rotors. I think I have a reason for the 1 or 2mm overhang of the abarth pads also.

Tony Feaster

 

[TonyK]

Okay went out into the shop and did some measuring to add to the confusion. The brake rotors are 257MM on Bob's car and appear to have a height of 40MM.

Also the Uno Turbo Brakes 2 rotors and pads shipped to Canada $427.00 CND or $250 USD. Not cheap and currently I do not have any spares sitting on the shelf in the basement.

TonyK.

Grimsby Ontario Canada.

 

[Dr.Jeff]

The brake rotors are 257MM on Bob's car and appear to have a height of 40MM.

Is that a Abarth 500 you are referring to?