FIAT 500 Reliability?

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Dan Sarandrea (Phila)

Waitin' On Parts...
Just got my Consumer Reports April 2014 Auto issue.

They are reporting that experienced and predicted reliability for the FIAT 500 is in the lowest of five possible grades, the full black dot, which they describe as "much worse than average."

Unfortunately, this year they discontinued the practice of reporting reliability details for each model's major systems/categories, so the reader has no way of knowing what the specific problem areas are for a given car.

To my knowledge, CR does not weight their categories, so a car that is experiencing high failure rates in an engine control module would have the same black dot as a car experiencing high failure rates with the passenger window winder handle.

So what are 500 owners seeing as high failure rate things on their 500s?
 
Some reviews I've found

I know nothing about the Fiat 500, but did find a fair amount of reviews that describe some of the problems.

See some of them HERE:

Making a comeback can be hard with this kind of feedback...
 
Ive owned two of them, a 2012 pop and my 500T, and neither have given me reason to make a special trip to the dealer other than oil changes. Granted, i have put less than 20k miles on either car but so far the car has been exemplary. Just my .02

Rob
 
Jeez - don't people test drive cars anymore??? I know there are long term things like seat comfort, steering sensitivity, noises that don't make themselves obvious when you test drive a car, but really? :

Review from consumer reports site (owner review)
"I bought the Fiat 500 less than 6 months ago and have never been so unhappy with a vehicle. The gas mileage is not what is advertised, the interior design is horrible, no center console, the visors do not even come close to protecting your face, the heat/ac when set on your feet blows directly, about 1/2" from your driving ankle so it either burns your ankle or freezes it. And do not let the wind blow at all because you cannot hold the car on the roadway. I do not enjoy driving anymore and can't wait to trade the car in."


The only thing I would be a little upset with is gas milage if that was your deciding factor in getting the car. My 2012 500 pop averaged 36-38 with around-town and SF city driving. Long trips it EXCEEDED 40 MPG regularly.

My 2012 was awesome for over a year and 15k miles of pure joy. My Abarth 3 months and almost 3k miles of bliss.

The L however, some issues with noisy brakes when they are cold and it is showing signs of a pull on highway so it needs to go for a check. Comfort however, the L is great. Very nice interior, seats are comfy with adjustable lumbar, etc. his/her heat/AC with auto temp control. Center nav system, backup camera, etc. I got the trekking edition.

Dealer and service experience is probably dead on though (bad) for a lot of folks. I was lucky or smart without knowing it, to buy mine at Capitol Fiat in San Jose, CA. Nothing but good experience. Yes; I have had the Abarth in for service, but it was due to road rash on a rim I missed when I bought it. I had it for a few days when I contacted them and they didn't once question me on it. They had it 4 days cuz they said they couldn't find a replacement rim and repaired mine.
 
Wow.

terrible reviews on Edmunds !

How about that.

So I bought an Abarth 500.

As a matter of fact I sold my Ferrari to raise the money buy that Abarth.




Don't get me wrong, I'm an X driver, have owned a mess of them, & put more miles a month on an X than I usually would in a year on the GT4. ( Never drove it as the X is a better car for my crowded Northen CA environment. )

Love the 500. Its so new & modern. Still prefer the X for road feel, but if you need to take Girlfriend out to dinner, go to an airport with luggage, or need an appliance it is stunning.

5k on mine, but a friend ( another Ferrari Mechanic ) has 34,000 on his Abarth with not a single issue.

Sob stories for some of those folks out there, but I'd say if you can live with an old X, a new 500 is just phenomenal for its modern/luxury/comfort vibe.

( Luxury in a 500 ? I know... we're all crazy. Drive an X daily & then try a 500. )

Highly recommended from my vantage.

 
Consumer Reports... The transportation appliance or disposable appliance ranting company.

Why does any one believe the bile this rag publishes?

What gives them any creditability or credentials to publish what they publish?

They claim no influence by or from advertising, yet no one questions who really funds them and what their real agenda could be.

Or would Consumer Reports a true indicator of what American's are looking for.

As a propaganda outlet, they have absolutely ZERO creditability or any meaningful information in my view. From the folks I know who have purchased their highest rated items, all have been a dismal failure in every way. This has been true year after year.. yet folks continue to believe what they publish.


Bernice

Dan Sarandrea (Phila) said:
Just got my Consumer Reports April 2014 Auto issue.

They are reporting that experienced and predicted reliability for the FIAT 500 is in the lowest of five possible grades, the full black dot, which they describe as "much worse than average."

Unfortunately, this year they discontinued the practice of reporting reliability details for each model's major systems/categories, so the reader has no way of knowing what the specific problem areas are for a given car.

To my knowledge, CR does not weight their categories, so a car that is experiencing high failure rates in an engine control module would have the same black dot as a car experiencing high failure rates with the passenger window winder handle.

So what are 500 owners seeing as high failure rate things on their 500s?
Click to expand...
 
I will say after working (as a second job) in appliance sales for 20 years, CR is quite often simple rubbish. Rating two pieces that are identical in every way but different badges, miles apart. Yah, CR is to be ignored.
 
What is a problem, there are an awful lot of folks that believe every word they publish..

It is what these folks WANT to believe..


Bernice


jvandyke said:
I will say after working (as a second job) in appliance sales for 20 years, CR is quite often simple rubbish. Rating two pieces that are identical in every way but different badges, miles apart. Yah, CR is to be ignored.
Click to expand...
 
To paraphrase Winston Churchill, Consumer Reports is the worst consumer rating publication, except for all of the others that are out there.

I do not pay an inordinate amount of attention to their road test write-ups because even though they do remove the commercial bias, the usual reporting and editorial biases can influence the result, just as it can at any other auto-oriented publication.

But no one can argue that, perhaps only exceeded by the auto manufacturers themselves, no other organization collects more ongoing reliability data on cars (and to a lesser extent, other consumer items) than does Consumer Reports.

One could also paraphrase Churchill here and state that the best argument against the quality of Consumer Reports long term reliability data is a five minute conversation with the people from whom they collected the data.

But, since the data is collected from the actual long term owners and drivers of the cars, yes, the people who made the decision to buy that car and will make the decision to buy another one of those cars, the data if not the source demands respect. Those people are the ones who have to be pleased, not some esoteric engineering panel, because those people are the ones who are going to buy, or not buy, the next version of the car.

Of course individual experience can deviate from the whole...anyone whose ever taken a statistics course knows that. Which is precisely why I posted this question, to learn of any specific trouble areas, as Consumer Reports discontinued publishing that info in their latest Auto Issue. Statistically, the response available in this venue would be too small to be significant, but still worthy of learning.
 
Yep, I tell my customers CR is a good place to start, to get ideas on what things to look for feature wise, and get some feedback but it's no Bible.
Since the store I work with has it's own service department, I go by our data and customer experience when advising customers. I was told once the president of CR's board is also the CEO of Sears, CR loves Kenmoore products, ironically they are made by a host of others, including Whirlpool. CR will rate Kenmoore high and Whirlpool low……?? That was a while back and may not be true anymore if ever but it makes one suspicious.
 
I have over 25,000 miles on my 2013 Abarth, with no issues to report. Mostly easy going commuter miles, but also includes autocrossing on a monthly basis.

The Fiat500 USA forum http://www.fiat500usaforum.com/forum.php
has a good number of users now, and you can learn more from more drivers there.

From reading it regularly for the past two years, I'd say there are some very minor issues with the new FIATS, but nothing that causes me worry. Of course if I was one of the guys that had an issue and then wasn't happy when the local Chrysler trained mechanics were unfamiliar with a brand new car, then I'd probably report poorly also.

This always brings to mind the classic advice to "never buy a first year model of a new car", since by the 2nd year some of the bugs should be worked out.

My opinion has always been that Consumer Reports isn't worth reading, and I still don't understand the little circle things anyway, but I will also argue with the statement above that no one else rates more cars on a long time basis? Does that include JD Powers, Motor Trend, Car and Driver, Road and Track, and all the other car magazines I read?
 
trumpet77 said:
I have over 25,000 miles on my 2013 Abarth, with no issues to report. Mostly easy going commuter miles, but also includes autocrossing on a monthly basis.

The Fiat500 USA forum http://www.fiat500usaforum.com/forum.php
has a good number of users now, and you can learn more from more drivers there.

From reading it regularly for the past two years, I'd say there are some very minor issues with the new FIATS, but nothing that causes me worry. Of course if I was one of the guys that had an issue and then wasn't happy when the local Chrysler trained mechanics were unfamiliar with a brand new car, then I'd probably report poorly also.

This always brings to mind the classic advice to "never buy a first year model of a new car", since by the 2nd year some of the bugs should be worked out.

My opinion has always been that Consumer Reports isn't worth reading, and I still don't understand the little circle things anyway, but I will also argue with the statement above that no one else rates more cars on a long time basis? Does that include JD Powers, Motor Trend, Car and Driver, Road and Track, and all the other car magazines I read?
Click to expand...

Funny you mention JD Powers; I just got my official JD Powers survey letter for the L. I will be filling that out shortly.

Since we are on the subject and you mention your miles on your Abarth, I just noticed today after having the car washed (can't do it myself for a little bit), the auto tire pressure system tells me it fails to start :(
 
Mostly good, but....

...there are some unexpected issues cropping up with the earliest cars. The Primas are illustrating some manufacturing process issues. Not totally unexpected, I guess. I have not heard any major issues on 2013 and later base, or Abarth.

Our 2012 Prima #50 (delivered April 1, 2011) with 32K had front control arms replaced a couple months ago when they started sounding like an X over slow uneven pavement (a theme with Fiat, no?)

We were told early control arms had a manufacturing defect that would lead to premature wear and dealers are replacing both with later revision units. At least one other Prima that I know of has had the same operation.

We had a seat belt retractor replaced, and a badge. That's about it.

Interestingly, when our car is laid up for a month or longer in storage it does not like to start well. It fires up but runs and idles rough for a couple mins till you free rev it a few times to clear it out. Dunno about that one....

There have been a few oiling issues, again on the earliest 2012 cars, which really sucks. Haven't heard a root cause, but at least two cars have completely wiped bearings under 50K miles. Disappointing, but not completely surprising since the entire engine manufacturing process was new out of the box in USA.

And there's the infamous "digital clock that loses 5 minutes or more a month" on the first 2012 models....

But I'm sounding like a Fix It Again guy... Overall, I think the build quality is pretty good, the studios are taking care of things as needed, and I wasn't expecting a Bentley.

-M
 
I think the real issue is that the bar for a "average" car is much much higher than it was even 10 years ago. Precious few cars are of poor quality these days, and that makes "personality quirks" not acceptable.

I mean, I bought a 500 becasue it wasn't another cookie cutter econobox, and unfortunately the folks at consumers reports only give high marks to those that are generic. No tappet noise if the car had another 100lbs sound deadening and a "conventional" engine design layout. But then again if it was a conventional design, you would have nowhere near the level of torque at low rpms like this little multiair has.

I took my Pop on a 10 mile, 4000ft grade climb up a winding mountain road (hwy 74 from Palm Desert to Anza for those in the know) and at the base of the hill, I set my cruise control for 45mph in 5th gear. It climbed that grade without ever needing to downshift. Try that trick with any other sub 1.6 liter naturally aspirated motor!
 
Matt Brannon - Midwest Bayless said:
...there are some unexpected issues cropping up with the earliest cars. The Primas are illustrating some manufacturing process issues. Not totally unexpected, I guess. I have not heard any major issues on 2013 and later base, or Abarth.

Our 2012 Prima #50 (delivered April 1, 2011) with 32K had front control arms replaced a couple months ago when they started sounding like an X over slow uneven pavement (a theme with Fiat, no?)

We were told early control arms had a manufacturing defect that would lead to premature wear and dealers are replacing both with later revision units. At least one other Prima that I know of has had the same operation.

We had a seat belt retractor replaced, and a badge. That's about it.

Interestingly, when our car is laid up for a month or longer in storage it does not like to start well. It fires up but runs and idles rough for a couple mins till you free rev it a few times to clear it out. Dunno about that one....

There have been a few oiling issues, again on the earliest 2012 cars, which really sucks. Haven't heard a root cause, but at least two cars have completely wiped bearings under 50K miles. Disappointing, but not completely surprising since the entire engine manufacturing process was new out of the box in USA.

And there's the infamous "digital clock that loses 5 minutes or more a month" on the first 2012 models....

But I'm sounding like a Fix It Again guy... Overall, I think the build quality is pretty good, the studios are taking care of things as needed, and I wasn't expecting a Bentley.

-M
Click to expand...

I heard batteries drain somewhat fast. Maybe related to the difficult start you describe Matt after long non-use periods?

A lot of 2014 cars on the lot had dead batteries when I was looking for the right color L
 
"Quality can be defined by meeting customer expectation."

Key to this is customer expectation, what customer expectation might be. This has been the topic and subject many focus groups, studies, research projects and much more.

One must look further into how the raw data has been collected and from who and where. It is so very easy to bias the data by simply filtering the individuals from where the data has been collected. This specific information is almost never disclosed by CR, JD Powers and etc.

It is due to these focus groups, studies and related that we have so many transportation appliances on the market today. For better or worst, the majority of vehicle owners and drivers have made up their mind on what they want, what they expect and what they will accept.

For those who's expectations and needs fall outside of these well established criteria for motor vehicles, their priorities are tossed out as this sub group is considered too small to consider.

Current motor vehicles are designed, built and expected to last the warranty period with some margin and be recycled.. figure about 3-5 years or in some case 100,000 miles... with the oily bits basically sealed and never have a problem. If any item has a perceived problem, they it can be reported being a negative. This can be anything from a strong dis-like for where the ignition switch is placed, cup holders that are considered too small to serious oily bits failure. There are few specifics other than presenting the data, no highly detailed explanations of why those who replied to a specific problem area.


Bernice


Dan Sarandrea (Phila) said:
To paraphrase Winston Churchill, Consumer Reports is the worst consumer rating publication, except for all of the others that are out there.

I do not pay an inordinate amount of attention to their road test write-ups because even though they do remove the commercial bias, the usual reporting and editorial biases can influence the result, just as it can at any other auto-oriented publication.

But no one can argue that, perhaps only exceeded by the auto manufacturers themselves, no other organization collects more ongoing reliability data on cars (and to a lesser extent, other consumer items) than does Consumer Reports.

One could also paraphrase Churchill here and state that the best argument against the quality of Consumer Reports long term reliability data is a five minute conversation with the people from whom they collected the data.

But, since the data is collected from the actual long term owners and drivers of the cars, yes, the people who made the decision to buy that car and will make the decision to buy another one of those cars, the data if not the source demands respect. Those people are the ones who have to be pleased, not some esoteric engineering panel, because those people are the ones who are going to buy, or not buy, the next version of the car.

Of course individual experience can deviate from the whole...anyone whose ever taken a statistics course knows that. Which is precisely why I posted this question, to learn of any specific trouble areas, as Consumer Reports discontinued publishing that info in their latest Auto Issue. Statistically, the response available in this venue would be too small to be significant, but still worthy of learning.
Click to expand...
 
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This must be...

This must be why I find new cars so disheartening. I recently rode with a friend in a 7 year old Acura. The mirrors and steering wheel moved to allow easier ingress/egress. The console has a large screen on which you can see what's behind you via a camera. No need to turn and look anymore. Drives me nuts. But, the car, a sedan is so fat you can't really see out of it anyway.

New cars depress me. And I've found many to have windshields that make me nauseated. Something about the angle or distortion. Then there's the "new car smell"... all those plasticizers off-gassing... :rolleyes2:
 
I postedd on a classic Mustang forum I frequent that I purchased a X. Another posed he purchased a MGA. All they can do is bash the X as a total POS there ok with MG though. I remember back in the day working on a lot of europen cars.
 
turbo2256b said:
I postedd on a classic Mustang forum I frequent that I purchased a X. Another posed he purchased a MGA. All they can do is bash the X as a total POS there ok with MG though. I remember back in the day working on a lot of europen cars.
Click to expand...

They're totally different cars. That's silly. I miss my Midget but it was a completely different mindset to the X, as for as overall "quality" goes, really? MG vs. Fiat? neither has the most robust electricals but an MGA is 18th century (that's not all bad either, just a whole different genre). The X can obliterate an MGA on every front, except maybe nostalgic cruises through the countryside where performance and handeling are less factors, that's where my Midget was awesome (as I suspect the MGA would be). Man I hate car snobs.
 
Examples of customer expectation and their definition of "Quality".

Dis-like for the exxe, MG, Mustang, new motor vehicle or etc.. all fall into this definition of how quality means different things to different individuals. This results in a variety of products for the market if market conditions allow.

There once was a time when motor vehicles were in their infancy with much freedom to design, build and produce driven by their creativity and limits of the technology of their time. All that has changed today. There is a story about the how the diameter of the volume knob is limited by government regulation in all vehicles. This is just one example of how the web of government regulations and more have shaped motor vehicle designs of today.

While motorist might have decided what they want and expect as a quality motor vehicle, government regulations and more are also at work shaping the end result.

Toss into this whole mix the need for company profitability or a companies very survival in the market place..

Modern motor vehicle designs that are specifically engineered, built to last for a specific service life that meets all government and motorist expectations can be made profitable by engineering the motor vehicle to last for only the duration of it's expected service life.. cheapening every possible aspect of the motor vehicle while delivering a perception of quality and durability to the motorist. Part of this perception comes from marketing and image building from media and publications like CR and more. These and other factors are used to drive what is offered to motorist and what they are allowed to own.

Anyone ever question how the rate of deprecation are calculated by publications like Kelly's Blue Book and others?

These and others are intended to get motorist to give up their old ride and constantly purchase a new ride as often as possible.


Bernice
 
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