Fiats new roadster

A thing is what is ...

and not something else. I can't see the objection to this little vehicle- it is sure as shootin' the most intriguing thing to come down the pike for awhile. I don't buy your rant about the lack of passion amongst designers, just because their passions happened to be highly constrained by economic, safety and emission requirements doesn't diminish the passion itself. This is to totally misunderstand how designers work in the day to day and to misunderstand how 'passion' or more accurately 'passionate interest' in a design problem operates in the process of designing something.

Wish you wouldn't use the word 'pimp' in your text-it is a pretty offensive word to apply to people who are not pimps and a haughty judgemental attitude about folks you don't even know.
 
Do you feel better for venting that?

The reality is the Abarth have to produce a sports car that is unique to them rather than based on another model in the Fiat/Alfa/Lancia range.

Alfa and Lancia want to borrow the platform for their own cars as they are tasked with something similar but they want FWD, Abarth wants RWD, preferably mid-engined.

The question is whether or not Abarth get their own way or not. The last few months have suggested that the answer is "not" but that may have changed. The ex-CEO of Abarth and Fiat's Group Marketting Director Luca De Meo (the man that had Abarth rebuilt) has departed and headed off to a german car manufacturer, he had already lost touch with Abarth after being moved to Alfa to try and drag them into profit. Last week they announced that Harald Wester CEO of Maserati (another fringe group within the Fiat empire that regularly has to fight with Ferrari) has been given control of Abarth as well.

Both Luca and Harald are people who have passion as their principle reason for being in the trade, while they have to deal with the beancounters they are not themselves bowing to that pressure.

The new Abarth GPA and 500 are veritable bargains in the current marketplace without being "cheap". Sure they cost more than the regular models from Fiat but then again those regular models are also well priced. In terms of profit the Fiat cars are pretty much bare bones when it comes to profit margin. Any dealer that discounts them is likely to make a loss. (This is a point of irony really given that the dealers make good margins on Alfa Romeos but Alfa Romeo as a whole just seems incapable of making a profit, Fiat on the otherhand is profitable but not so much to the dealers).

Getting back on track though we all have to remember that this is *not* even vaguely intended as a replacement for the X1/9. Abarth has (or rather had) a long history of building sportscars in a variety of layouts before Fiat got hold of the company. This is what the new car is intended to mimic. The X1/9, for all of its devoted following, is a bad memory to Fiat and not something they ever want to repeat.

The flipside of all this is that regardless of whether it is FWD, RWD or mid-engined the car *will* be good, solid fun to drive. It may only get a small 1.4 turbo engine (at best) and just 200bhp (absolute maximum) but that is enough to make it fun without making it supercar fast. It is meant to be something you buy out of desire and passion, not because it is the best car you can find in the market. It isn't trying to prove anything other than look good and give the driver a memorable experience and a big smile.
 
Well....

No offense intended....

I didn't call anyone a pimp. Was merely pointing to some of the rather sickening marketing ploys that are precisely comparable to what a pimp does, but I never referred to anyone as a pimp. Perhaps 'hyperbole over and about history' would be a more accurate indicator. And you'll have to allow me to absolutely disagree with you trying to give the designers a break, because I will not.

As for these designers that you somehow expect me to lighten up on....I don't have to know them or go live in their homes or have coffee with them to see that the results of the entire automotive industry, with few exceptions.....mechanical excresence. Cars cost more now than ever, we can actually maintain them less than ever, and, with notable exceptions, there is less uniqueness and creativity than ever. There is no doubt passion there, but it is mitigated, perhaps by finance, perhaps by simple lack of creativity and hard work, to the point of being almost non-existent. Passion for cannabilism is a type of passion, but not that kind we want, or the kind that finds common acceptance in our world today. You don't have to be a home builder to know and have distinct preferences as to what kind've home you like, if one is bad or horrible, or if one is exceptional. Does your viewpoint not count just because you don't know a bunch of homebuilders?? Bullsh**t.


Why should we accept these mostly copied, melted candy bar, mechanically over-sophisticated, throw-away cars as anything approaching passion. "Awe give them a break...." Yeah...let's just all
adapt and accept a homogenized mediocrity so that no one's bad, everybody's cool, and oh yes....believe it or not, whether I think so or not, there IS passion.

Bullsh**t.....and a thousand times, Bullsh**t, I don't accept it, just won't. I'm calling Bullsh**t on such attitudes. And you're actually arguing FOR the automotive industry.....you have the lower position, so take careful moves.

Let me be clear....I'm not implicity dissing the little car, it looks cool, and that's about all I can say. It's not an X, it's not mid-engined, it IS front wheel drive. It is being "hyped" (is that better than pimped?) as an Abarth. I'm skeptical, it may or may not even be produced. I'm objected to the automotive culture from whence it derives and what it is "hyped" to represent in contrast to what it is that we as enthusiast are well clued in on, that is, the X1/9. There....is that reasonable? Did I offend any unknown sensitivies?

Again...no offense, no anger,......I don't recall a moratorium on spirited discussion. I"m not a car designer, I'm an automotive enthusiast who sees it from the outside. I couldn't design a car to save my life but I know what's good and what's not. Isn't that supposed to be fun? Or does that fall under the revisionists rubric of politically incorrect in the same vein as my dissing passion and creativity in the automotive world? Make your argument, man-up, stick by it, we're all adults here. What do you think?
 
it is my fault guys

It is all my fault the topic got muddied because I mentioned the X1/99 and also the 'angular' abarth sketch being more representative of a 'spiritual successor' (thats the phrase they used, not mine) of the X1/9 than a 'roundie' one.. I never meant to say I thought that this Abarth *IS* "supposed" to be or is being pitched as such, clearly it is not, I just say that because some part of me is always watching and waiting to see whether Fiat's ever going to do ANYTHING with a mid engine again... and when someone upstream mentioned the Elise platform thing, it just got me thinking of it all over again, thats all... Anyway my bad, I should have kept that "X1/9 2.0" segment of my ravings for a different thread so as not to be mixing/confusing the two... I can agree with everyone on one thing, whether intentionally imitated or just similarly configured, there will never be another X1/9 like the ones we already have.. Don't take my rambling rants as to think I need one. I'm quite happy with the originals - I just can't ever help speculating on anything coming out of Fiat that might have a hint of mid engine or wedge to it... call it a weakness.. or an occupational hazard...
 
Hecko-rama Duane...

I don't know what to think there was so much food for thought there I durn near choked to death on it.

Could you tell me how to 'man-up' - I need to know so I can go shopping if it is required.
 
It's all your fault?...

hey Mac, take off the hair shirt and drop the cross -we aren't handing out sainthoods around here.:):whistle:
 
??

ok I must be slow today.. I dont follow. Anyway I was only saying I was not intending to turn the "new Abarth" thread into a "new X" thread.. and was sorry for any confusion that my meanderings mixing the two seems to have caused, thats all
 
Maybe I am slow...

your comment was attached to Duane's very interesting commentary above. I just thought that no fault was to be had with anyone least of all you. (I am not even sure what is supposed to be your fault after re-reading the things that are supposed to be your fault) Like I said 'must be slow':):whistle:
 
Yeah....

Mac? Does this have anything to do with a New Year's resolution or something? Thanks for that clarification, and your conciliatory position, but I didn't view it at all do be your conflation of the X1/9's spiritual successor that muddied the discussion. I do confess my position is motivated by an utter disgust with the automotive industry, particularly Detroit. So, let me take the blame for the skewed discussion.

For what it's worth, I didn't see the discussion as getting to the "nanny nanny boo boo" phase any time soon.
 
well

from where I sit it just looked to me that my inter-mingling the "new X" topic into my comments on the "new Abarth" topic had caused some confusion on the thread at large, so I was just tossing a 2c apology out for any confusion that may have caused to the thread topic in general. My posting it attached as a response to specifically that post was just arbitrary as really I was directing my comment to everyone. Anyway it's all good, we've all got opinions right...
 
nor do I

I thought the discussion (in terms of people expressing whatever views) was fine, the thread overall just reads now to me like my having mixed the two subjects offhand kind of confused the topic as a whole moreso than I had intended it to be just a sideline comparison of X vs what Fiat's up to these days...
 
Nope, not me ..

I have given up opinion for absolute unasailable knowledge. It makes life so much easier when you know everything and you know that you are right regardless.:):whistle:
 
Read the whole post and I think those are interesting cars for sure, but boy I have to hand it to Fiat for again trying to come to America again at the worst possible time because of the economy and if it is true putting Fiat and Alfa as piggyback dealerships with Dodge. The only very tarnished silver lining I can see is that it will be exactly like it was before and people with 500 Abarth SS's are going to be frustrated as the people who bought Fiats in the 70's and dump them for pennies on the dollar and then us X guys will start buying them up.

Jed Clampett
(couple of Fiat's, nothing fancy)
 
This is indeed just a photoshop

This is a photoshop of a VW show car. Its a good chop but it has nothing to do with what an Abarth will look like beyond matching a description gleaned from a dust bin somewhere.

I don't doubt there will be something but I strongly doubt it will look anything like this. I posted pics of the VW show car a couple of weeks ago, its a nice bright yellow that looked bgreat on 1975 Xs


My original post:

The original images were of the VW Eco Racer. Someone photoshopped the images to become this sad excuse for an Abarth.

Lets hope whatever the real thing is that it will look much better and hopefully follows the X formula with the FWD package moved to the middle.

http://www.seriouswheels.com/pics-20...A-1280x960.jpg

http://www.autowallpaper.de/Wallpape...co_Racer_2.jpg
 
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