Fitting Redline Weber on X 1/9 intake
- Thread starter ZRatedDog
- Start date
dnudelman
True Classic
Just wondering what is wrong with the EFI? Bosch EFI is pretty good, and we're talking Yugos here.
Dr.Jeff
True Classic
Good point. If you still have the Yugo FI it is actually a better system than the X's FI. Both are Bosch but the Yugo's is a later design system that is more advanced than on the X. And it is a direct fit on the X engine. FI is significantly better than any carb.
That is what my research confirms.
I had a lot of back-and-from about that. The saga goes like this:
When I got the car, I discovered that the original engine is seized, and I mean welded solid. Drained the oil, looking for shavings/glitter (none found) but oil reeked of gas, and I mean REEKED. Oil itself was consistency of water. I filled the cylinders to the brim with MMO, repeat few times over a week. Still not even a budge. Then I took the head off, to find couple things: Cylinders are in pretty good shape; no scoring or lip at TDC, and they are "wobbly" in their bores, and MMO will seep past the rings from all cylinders when left overnight; camshaft lobes equally good looking (to my amateur naked eye at least), indicating that engine was not running for a long with that gas-oil combo, leading me to think that locking up happened at the bottom end, and the death was quick and relatively painless. I did not disassemble anything from the bottom end yet; I am suspecting that crank is toast. Also: evidence of a very recent head gasket failure (mayo in limited quantities, and only around cyl 3 & 4), which was a total surprise (No mayo in expansion chamber or in rest of the cooling system).
So all that had me thinking that carnage originated from a injector that got stuck in open position, filling the crankcase with gas? No evidence of hydrolock (again, have not disassembled the bottom end yet). In either case, I had a dead engine, and a highly suspect FI system. Which got me thinking about options.
Option 1) - Repair existing engine ($$$$ in parts in machine work, not an option), in addition of overhauling the injectors (more $$$, plus not many mechanics are versed in Bosh 3.1), new pump etc. Every step would be magnitude more expensive than Option 2:
Option 2)- Get a good junkyard engine, stick a carb on it, call it a day. Much cheaper and easier, from fuel system to tuning and maintaining. When you go that route, why not upgrade to 1.5? (Fiat is much more prevalent and support is far better than for Yugo...and thats where I am now.)
Option 2 also carries something that is more of a emotional than rational: EFI does NOT gives you that sweet, sweet intake noise. I have 5 other cars, all of them are FI, and I miss that viscerality of a carbed engine intake sound.
Pics:
Definitively a more convinient option, thank you for that suggestion
Dr.Jeff
True Classic
If you found a junkyard Fiat engine (which isn't easy to find), I'd suspect possible issues with it as well. If I was in your position I'd continue tearing down the existing engine, which doesn't cost anything to do. That way I could assess it accurately, then determine if it is worth rebuilding. 
Option 3: If you find a good used engine, the Yugo FI will work on it. And sorting out a Bosch FI system is not difficult. Nor is it necessarily costly. In fact I'd say it is much less costly to fix the FI you have than trying to convert to carbs you don't have. You can do some evaluation of the existing components to see if there is indeed any failed items. See the FI diagnostic manual. The FI may not have been the cause of the engine failure. Lots of possibilities when we don't know the history.
I suggest gathering more data before jumping into any big decisions.
Option 3: If you find a good used engine, the Yugo FI will work on it. And sorting out a Bosch FI system is not difficult. Nor is it necessarily costly. In fact I'd say it is much less costly to fix the FI you have than trying to convert to carbs you don't have. You can do some evaluation of the existing components to see if there is indeed any failed items. See the FI diagnostic manual. The FI may not have been the cause of the engine failure. Lots of possibilities when we don't know the history.
I suggest gathering more data before jumping into any big decisions.
DanielForest
True Classic
I'm not sure if I'm with Dr Jeff. I would try to find a junkyard engine or a spare from another member. Since shipping could be expensive and complicated, limit your area. Then,, when you have a price you could make a decision. I know some friends got spares, but they are located in Québec. I'm sure you could find some closer. And then, you will have spares from your old engine to choose from. Maybe if you post something in the For Sale and Wanted., you could have surprises.If you found a junkyard Fiat engine (which isn't easy to find), I'd suspect possible issues with it as well. If I was in your position I'd continue tearing down the existing engine, which doesn't cost anything to do. That way I could assess it accurately, then determine if it is worth rebuilding.
Option 3: If you find a good used engine, the Yugo FI will work on it. And sorting out a Bosch FI system is not difficult. Nor is it necessarily costly. In fact I'd say it is much less costly to fix the FI you have than trying to convert to carbs you don't have. You can do some evaluation of the existing components to see if there is indeed any failed items. See the FI diagnostic manual. The FI may not have been the cause of the engine failure. Lots of possibilities when we don't know the history.
I suggest gathering more data before jumping into any big decisions.
johnph
True Classic
Go ahead and remove the engine and tear it down. If the crank is shot, I have used 1300 and 1500 cranks. If the block is shot, measure the existing bore and note the block serial number and casting numbers. I may be able to help you there. I also have used rods and both 86.0 1300 pistons and 86.4 (1500) pistons cheap for you. I have used parts that you can make a perfectly serviceable 20,000 mile engine. Keep on tearing this down....
Awesome, I will keep that in mind.
To clarify: (In my haste, and before I found this board - I know, not smart on my part) I've already obtained carbed 1.5 long block. So far plan is to get that engine running so I can drive the car. Yes, being a junkyard engine it is a gamble, but it's better than boat anchor that I currently have. Plan is to get that put together, drive it few seasons, and in the mean time slowly gather parts for refresh/rebuild of the original (maybe make that into 1.5 EFi, why not? I am not getting rid of any of the EFI stuff, as I may go back to it one day). That way I would still have a driveable car while gathering parts/ funds for upgrades. Problem is, I have 5 other cars, so budgeting/timing plays a big role.
fiatfactory
Steve Cecchele
A blown head gasket on a SOHC doesn't usually result in chocolate milkshake in the oil system, your's has obviously breached the gasket on number four piston, I can see evidence of the gasket failure around the hole at the end of the block... so number four piston is likely stuck solid.
no metal / glitter in the oil probably means the crank is fine.
Find a manifold and carby from a 128 coupe, that's a manifold very similar to the X19 inlet you have, but cut for the correct engine inclination of the yugo / all Fiat sohc (except for the X19 which is unique)
to go with this a 32dmtr / datr/ datra (they are all pretty close to the same) will work with minimal effort
The Fiat and Yugo bosch EFI's are not performance oriented, the carb is far more tuneable than the stock EFI by a factor of heaps.
Simply going 1500 is going to give you the power / torque increase your probably looking for at minimal expenditure, if you've already bought the 1500 and it turns over by hand then your quite a few steps ahead of where you were with a seized 1300
SteveC
no metal / glitter in the oil probably means the crank is fine.
Find a manifold and carby from a 128 coupe, that's a manifold very similar to the X19 inlet you have, but cut for the correct engine inclination of the yugo / all Fiat sohc (except for the X19 which is unique)
to go with this a 32dmtr / datr/ datra (they are all pretty close to the same) will work with minimal effort
The Fiat and Yugo bosch EFI's are not performance oriented, the carb is far more tuneable than the stock EFI by a factor of heaps.
Simply going 1500 is going to give you the power / torque increase your probably looking for at minimal expenditure, if you've already bought the 1500 and it turns over by hand then your quite a few steps ahead of where you were with a seized 1300
SteveC
carl
True Classic
Both my 128s and my SL got 1500 conversions. So much more useable torque for real street driving. That burned caramel like deposit on number 4 looks a whole lot like an insect nest. I have had this on two 124 motors and had to throw both blocks away as that stuff is worse than welding. And it smells so bad you want to vomit. If the motor is left outside and one of the valves will obviously be open, insects will come in via the intake or exhaust and ruin the motor after sitting there for years.
Conversion to carb is a good start as all you need is the carb, manifold and pump. As you noted you can start enjoying your car right away and collect FI parts in a leisurely manner.
Conversion to carb is a good start as all you need is the carb, manifold and pump. As you noted you can start enjoying your car right away and collect FI parts in a leisurely manner.