Flat tow 850 Spider by front bumper brackets

Matt Zerega

Passion, not Practicality.
Greetings Fiat lovers. I just bought a beautiful '69 850 Spider. I've got to drive a few hours to get it...by my self. The plan is to flat tow it home (all four wheels on the ground), using a tow bar mounted to a spare set of bumper brackets I've got. (I will not rent a dolly or a flatbed).

The problem: I've never had an 850 before; I don't know if the factory front-bumper brackets will tolerate towing...and I need to have as much fabrication done as possible, BEFORE I get to the seller's house!

The workshop manual thankfully says:

"Removal and installation of bumpers do not involve special difficulties. Bumper brackets are mounted in luggage compartment at front and in engine compartment at rear...". Removing the front bumper, and installing my spare brackets, sounds easy enough...

Can anyone tell me exactly how far apart the front-bumper factory brackets are? (So I can pre-cut a piece of tubing to mount between the two brackets). And, is there anyone who's flat towed an 850 Spider before, that can tell me about their experience?

Any helpful guidance would be appreciated.
 
I flat-towed an 850 spider from Oakland CA to Portland OR about 1986; it took the trip fine, essentially invisible behind the short U-Haul I'd rented for the move.
The car came with a tow bar installed on fabricated brackets (made by the PO) that bolted thru the body just below the bumper; I bought it non-running from a co-worker sight unseen, and he towed it from Hercules to Oakland for delivery.
 
When I bought my ‘68 850 Spider back in 1991, I flat towed it behind my Explorer the 110 miles home with no problems. I think that journey behind the Explorer was the fastest the Spider ever went.
I still have the tow bar that came with the car. It has a pair of brackets that replace the bumper brackets. I don’t know the spacing, but I can take a picture of the setup for you tomorrow if you’d like.
 
Thanks Jefco and Mark. It's great to hear you both were successful.

Yes, Mark... please do take a photo of the setup you've still got. It sounds like exactly the kind of "kit" I imagined making i.e., one that uses the car's front factory bumper-mounting points. Peeeerrrfect!


...
I still have the tow bar...It has a pair of brackets that replace the bumper brackets...I cant take a picture of the setup for you tomorrow if you’d like.
 
I was going to send a picture of my tow bar but it seems my stuff is always in the other garage. I can try to get it later. Then I can also get exact measurements off it.
For now inside the trunk measures 27.5 inches, then you need to account for the sheet metal.
Outside from the far edges of the bumper bracket holes is 28.75 inches.
 
Matt- Here’s a photo of the bar. Been under the house for almost 30 years. Ignore the brackets attached to it in the first photo. The small bracket in the second photo is what was used on the 850. A full width rod connected them to the tow bar.

B3D459D4-4F42-4BB5-BAEA-F1B0CECE1C6C.jpeg

67A2BA76-C56A-4EE1-B0D5-5CBBB6C5CFB8.jpeg



Thanks Jefco and Mark. It's great to hear you both were successful.

Yes, Mark... please do take a photo of the setup you've still got. It sounds like exactly the kind of "kit" I imagined making i.e., one that uses the car's front factory bumper-mounting points. Peeeerrrfect!
 
Not to be negative, but I would NOT recommend flat towing any old car that you do not know the complete history of. Perhaps if it has recently been mechanically restored then I might consider it - depending on the circumstance. And even then, only for a couple miles (and a "few hours" sounds like a lot more than that). Just too much on old cars that can (and likely will) go wrong, causing a lot of damage to it, your tow vehicle, and the other vehicles around you...not to mention the occupants. Sorry, but it's my opinion that it is much better to spend a few dollars to rent a trailer than risk flat towing. Playing with old cars requires a little different frame of mind than a typical modern daily driver vehicle.
 
Thanks, NM850 and Mark. Much appreciated.

NM850, if I'm following you (please confirm), it appears the front brackets are roughly 28.75-27.50 = 1.25 / 2 = 0.62" thick, each...
and they're spaced roughly 27.5" apart. The critical thing here is the spacing, since I've got to cut the "spreader" before I go pick up the vehicle.

Mark, thanks a bunch for taking that photo! It goes a long way to give me confidence about the tow bar design I planned to use; it looks almost exactly like what I imagined i.e., flat-bar brackets sticking out the back of the tow bar assembly, that take the place of the Fiat factory bumper brackets, that are bolted into the chassis in the factory bumper-mount locations. Do you remember where that loose bracket, with angled end, affixed? How what that used?

NM850, I've attached an excerpt from the 850 workshop manual to illustrate what I think you're conveying about spacing between the *front* bumper brackets. Am I understanding (correctly) what you intended to convey?

Mark, just to confirm, the piece of old kit you've got affixed to the *front* bumper location on the car, yes?

Big thanks to both of you, and Jefco! Your info will help ensure this endeavor is an all-around success.

Not to worry, Dr. Jeff. I am formally educated in automotive maintenance and machining and have spent countless hours tearing cars completely apart, and reassembling in improved form. Much of the joy in life comes from taking informed, calculated risks...which leads me back to conveying my thanks to Jefco, NM850 and Mark! Our helpful providers of information! Thanks Gents!
 

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I've towed several Fist 850's using a "tow bar" similar to Mark's. As you are aware make certain you have good tires and free brakes. Possibly even pack front wheel bearings. Make sure the steering is free to track. ALSO HAVE VISABLE TURN AND STOP LIGHTS WIRED IN. Final one is when (in California) when you approach DMV and they innocently ask you how it was moved be sure to say "FLAT BED TRAILER FROM PROPERTY TO PROPERTY" or you may find yourself in violation of several costly DMV laws. First of which is operating unlicensed/unregistered car on public highway. ALWAYS, ALWAYS act innocent and respectful no matter how stupid the DMV counterperson is or you will find out they can dream up tons of hurdles. If you're on their good side they can OK a lot of grey areas on the other hand. Overall I've enjoyed good relations with DMV people wherever I've resided. Just remember they have kind of a thankless job.
 
Matt-

here’s a picture with the correct brackets attached.


F7327860-8B46-4AFC-BEB5-4E31BE2806DF.jpeg


Thanks, NM850 and Mark. Much appreciated.

NM850, if I'm following you (please confirm), it appears the front brackets are roughly 28.75-27.50 = 1.25 / 2 = 0.62" thick, each...
and they're spaced roughly 27.5" apart. The critical thing here is the spacing, since I've got to cut the "spreader" before I go pick up the vehicle.

Mark, thanks a bunch for taking that photo! It goes a long way to give me confidence about the tow bar design I planned to use; it looks almost exactly like what I imagined i.e., flat-bar brackets sticking out the back of the tow bar assembly, that take the place of the Fiat factory bumper brackets, that are bolted into the chassis in the factory bumper-mount locations. Do you remember where that loose bracket, with angled end, affixed? How what that used?

NM850, I've attached an excerpt from the 850 workshop manual to illustrate what I think you're conveying about spacing between the *front* bumper brackets. Am I understanding (correctly) what you intended to convey?

Mark, just to confirm, the piece of old kit you've got affixed to the *front* bumper location on the car, yes?

Big thanks to both of you, and Jefco! Your info will help ensure this endeavor is an all-around success.

Not to worry, Dr. Jeff. I am formally educated in automotive maintenance and machining and have spent countless hours tearing cars completely apart, and reassembling in improved form. Much of the joy in life comes from taking informed, calculated risks...which leads me back to conveying my thanks to Jefco, NM850 and Mark! Our helpful providers of information! Thanks Gents!
 
Awesome, Mark! Thanks! If you have a chance to measure, please let me know the distance between the brackets. Prior posts suggest it's roughly 27.5 inches. I just want to be sure.

And absolutely, I'll be super polite and humble if pulled over during the transport trip. The good thing: the car is in excellent condition and currently registered. I have magnetic tow lights, too.

Matt-

here’s a picture with the correct brackets attached.

View attachment 30478
 
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It’s 30-5/16”


Awesome, Mark! Thanks! If you have a chance to measure, please let me know the distance between the brackets. Prior posts suggest it's roughly 27.5 inches. I just want to be sure.

And absolutely, I'll be super polite and humble if pulled over during the transport trip. The good thing: the car is in excellent condition and currently registered. I have magnetic tow lights, too.
 

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I would just drive it. Have someone follow along behind you.

If it is in good condition then it will be no problem and if you do run into an issue you can use the other vehicle to tow it home.
 
You've been a huge help, Mark. Here's the parts and design I'll be using.
I'll post a picture of the vehicle - with the bar attached, of course - upon departure on the trip home, and when I arrive :)

I appreciate everyone's help.

And, kmead, if I had willing help...I'd most certainly just drive it home. The car's in great shape.
dVxk
 
Thanks again, Mark. I dragged the car 230 miles without incident. It all worked like a charm.

Now...it's time to yank the drivetrain and fix everything. Like all old cars with histories like this one, every rubber and plastic part on the car needs to be replaced. And...the car "needs" fuel injection and a turbo.
R-RW

NFsQ
 
Glad to hear it. I bet you could hardly tell it was back there!


Thanks again, Mark. I dragged the car 230 miles without incident. It all worked like a charm.

Now...it's time to yank the drivetrain and fix everything. Like all old cars with histories like this one, every rubber and plastic part on the car needs to be replaced. And...the car "needs" fuel injection and a turbo.
R-RW

NFsQ
 
It is just me that can't see the pictures here on Xweb? I have to click on a little "missing image" icon and load in a new browser tab to see them. Maybe its the fact that they exist on Googcle Docs?

Matt, could you load the pictures up to Xweb so that they stay here for posterity. It sure is a good looking 850. :)
 
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