<TABLE cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD colSpan=2><TABLE width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-TOP: 4px" vAlign=top colSpan=2>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Free Tip<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]November 24 2000 at 11:17 PM[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]lezesig [/FONT]</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=bottom colSpan=3><HR></TD></TR><TR><TD colSpan=3>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->I F ....you ever disassemble your differential spider assembly just for kicks(what a pasttime, huh?), to see how it works, to inspect the components, or to clean, etc. PUT THE SMALL SPIDER IN LAST. You might want to scribble that down somewhere along a page border. Ha, ha, ha Great fun ! Reminded me of a rubiks cube trying to time the bevel gears correctly. Tried unsucessfully several(20+) times to load the larger stub axle bevel gears last....but...the key to solving the cube is easy by pinning all three gears then load the final smaller spider (bevel gear) last; then pin it. Note: This is on the 5-speed tranny that has the hemispherical seats on the bevel gears. I see in some of my manuals that some X's are set up with shouldered bevel gears for the stub axles that do not have the hemispherical seat. Next folly ? Figuring out how to get the inner race off the end of the countershaft. No clearance between the ground pinion gear and the race. This should be a good one. And I don't want to sacrifice it by splitting it! Anybody been there ? Out for now,
lezesig('79 awaiting tranny bearings) <!-- google_ad_section_end -->
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[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Author[/FONT]</TD><TD>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Reply[/FONT]</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript> <!-- var n54_em; n54_em = ""; n54_em = n54_em + "s";n54_em = n54_em + "t";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "v";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "h";n54_em = n54_em + "h";n54_em = n54_em + "@";n54_em = n54_em + "h";n54_em = n54_em + "i";n54_em = n54_em + "w";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + "y";n54_em = n54_em + ".";n54_em = n54_em + "n";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "t"; document.write("Steve Hoelscher"); // --> </SCRIPT>Steve Hoelscher <NOSCRIPT></NOSCRIPT>[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Another Tip<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]November 26 2000, 8:22 AM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Getting the inner race off the counter shaft can be a bit tricky. The first question should be, does it need to come off? Unless it is damaged, or you must change the pinion shaft, there is no need to remove it. And, if it is damaged, then splitting it is not a problem. So, if you decide you need to remove it, there are two methods. First, try using a chisle, placed at the seam where the race meets the pinion shaft. Being careful not to damage the pinion gear, carefully drive the chisle between the two. They should sepparate if only slightly. Once a gap is opened up, it should drive off easily. Again, be very careful not to damage the race or pinion shaft. If no progresss can be made using this method, then try cooling the shaft in the freezer for a couple of hours, then use a torch (I have a small butane torch that works well for this) to carefully heat the race. Typically, after a couple of minutes, you can grab the race with a large pair of pliers and pull it off. Stubborn races may require the chisle again, but it will come off. Be carefull not to heat the race too much or you will ruin it. It is not necessary to heat it to the point where it glows red.
Steve
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[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]lezesig[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 30px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Thanks<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]November 26 2000, 2:06 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 30px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Thanks for the reply Steve,
Got it. Louped it and I didn't like the pitting under 5X. Hard habit to break replacing the bearings once inside a case. Marginal wear and I always seem to replace. I have good luck with my machines lasting an unusually long time with this practice. Ended up using a bearing seperator tool. No doubt you've probably tried this method also. Worked sweet with the aid of a little heat. The small tool has two cast halves that are pinched by two threaded bolts. It literally squeezes the race forward on the shaft end (especially with the use of a conventional puller to aid in the process. The real challenge was the outer Timken race in the larger maincase half !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Four hours later finally came up with a geometrically "correct" puller arrangement. Much custom grinding on tool ends for that one. Every one of these races have been abnormaly tight to the shafts. Very surprising. The biggest surprise of all though was the floating bearing to case interface on both the countershaft and the lay shaft. Never seen a design such as that. Almost tempted to get the brass shim stock out and tighten up the interface. The Shop manual even suggests using the thumb and index finger to pull the bearing out. It works. Never seen such a loose fit. One things for sure if those bearings ever seize than it will be real easy to spin the bearing in the case ! Out for now, lezesig ('79 awaiting tranny bearings!)<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Steve Hoelscher[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 45px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Bearings<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]November 27 2000, 6:58 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 45px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->I didn't think to suggest the bearing separator as few people actually have one. I have three of the type you described, each of a different size. A necessity for any professional transmission shop. (I own and operate a tranny shop)
I understand your want to replace bearings, a good idea. However, the X1/9 transmissions are not known for bearing failure. It is rare that I find one with any bad bearings and that includes some very high mileage units. The larger roller bearings (floating bearings) on the ends of the shafts that you mentioned are actually held in place by pressure from the end plate bolted over them. If you look at the inside of the plate you will see the casing that clamps them in place. In all of the X1/9 transmissions I have torn into, I have never seen one that spun in the case. In fact, it is very rare to see any bearing spun in an X1/9 transmission.
The most common bearing failure for an X transmission is the diff carrier bearings and these usually fail from not being correctly shimmed after a rebuild. After you install the new bearings, be sure to check the preload and re-shim the diff if necessary.
Steve
<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]lezesig[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 60px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Correction Steve ?<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]November 28 2000, 5:44 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 60px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Gotcha. Yes....thrust...endplay is retained by the input shaft seal holder and the other hole is blind as you well know. I was talking sideplay though. The question ( that we don't have the answer to ) is if the gap was planned or cut to the highside of manufacturing tolerances during machining. Only the Drawings will tell. To four places....know what I mean ? It's evident they designed cutouts for a puller in the blind hole. You ever seen a bearing not pressed into an aluminum case ? The Engineering Department has this Drawing....and I'm betting it's in Italian...show me the object lines and the numbers !......Thanks for the the historical perspective on bearing wear Steve very much appreciated. It gives me a real warm and fuzzy feeling I just pulled the bearings when they probably could've gone for another engine or two ! HA, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha Great Fun. I had no way of ascertaining what the rated material removal rate was on these particular bearings. I do supposed I could have investigated the rate though. It's readily obtainable data for other bearing types. Easier to remove and replace. I'll have to quailfy that... I got em removed...we'll see how the pressing stage goes. The Diff ? I'm thinking of using the feeler guage routine in lieu of the height block and indicator. Seems that this later method should work just fine; right ? Out for now, lezesig( '79 awaiting tranny bearings )
<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
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[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]November 24 2000 at 11:17 PM[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]lezesig [/FONT]</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=bottom colSpan=3><HR></TD></TR><TR><TD colSpan=3>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->I F ....you ever disassemble your differential spider assembly just for kicks(what a pasttime, huh?), to see how it works, to inspect the components, or to clean, etc. PUT THE SMALL SPIDER IN LAST. You might want to scribble that down somewhere along a page border. Ha, ha, ha Great fun ! Reminded me of a rubiks cube trying to time the bevel gears correctly. Tried unsucessfully several(20+) times to load the larger stub axle bevel gears last....but...the key to solving the cube is easy by pinning all three gears then load the final smaller spider (bevel gear) last; then pin it. Note: This is on the 5-speed tranny that has the hemispherical seats on the bevel gears. I see in some of my manuals that some X's are set up with shouldered bevel gears for the stub axles that do not have the hemispherical seat. Next folly ? Figuring out how to get the inner race off the end of the countershaft. No clearance between the ground pinion gear and the race. This should be a good one. And I don't want to sacrifice it by splitting it! Anybody been there ? Out for now,
lezesig('79 awaiting tranny bearings) <!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Another Tip<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]November 26 2000, 8:22 AM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Getting the inner race off the counter shaft can be a bit tricky. The first question should be, does it need to come off? Unless it is damaged, or you must change the pinion shaft, there is no need to remove it. And, if it is damaged, then splitting it is not a problem. So, if you decide you need to remove it, there are two methods. First, try using a chisle, placed at the seam where the race meets the pinion shaft. Being careful not to damage the pinion gear, carefully drive the chisle between the two. They should sepparate if only slightly. Once a gap is opened up, it should drive off easily. Again, be very careful not to damage the race or pinion shaft. If no progresss can be made using this method, then try cooling the shaft in the freezer for a couple of hours, then use a torch (I have a small butane torch that works well for this) to carefully heat the race. Typically, after a couple of minutes, you can grab the race with a large pair of pliers and pull it off. Stubborn races may require the chisle again, but it will come off. Be carefull not to heat the race too much or you will ruin it. It is not necessary to heat it to the point where it glows red.
Steve
<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 30px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Thanks<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]November 26 2000, 2:06 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 30px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Thanks for the reply Steve,
Got it. Louped it and I didn't like the pitting under 5X. Hard habit to break replacing the bearings once inside a case. Marginal wear and I always seem to replace. I have good luck with my machines lasting an unusually long time with this practice. Ended up using a bearing seperator tool. No doubt you've probably tried this method also. Worked sweet with the aid of a little heat. The small tool has two cast halves that are pinched by two threaded bolts. It literally squeezes the race forward on the shaft end (especially with the use of a conventional puller to aid in the process. The real challenge was the outer Timken race in the larger maincase half !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Four hours later finally came up with a geometrically "correct" puller arrangement. Much custom grinding on tool ends for that one. Every one of these races have been abnormaly tight to the shafts. Very surprising. The biggest surprise of all though was the floating bearing to case interface on both the countershaft and the lay shaft. Never seen a design such as that. Almost tempted to get the brass shim stock out and tighten up the interface. The Shop manual even suggests using the thumb and index finger to pull the bearing out. It works. Never seen such a loose fit. One things for sure if those bearings ever seize than it will be real easy to spin the bearing in the case ! Out for now, lezesig ('79 awaiting tranny bearings!)<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 45px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Bearings<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]November 27 2000, 6:58 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 45px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->I didn't think to suggest the bearing separator as few people actually have one. I have three of the type you described, each of a different size. A necessity for any professional transmission shop. (I own and operate a tranny shop)
I understand your want to replace bearings, a good idea. However, the X1/9 transmissions are not known for bearing failure. It is rare that I find one with any bad bearings and that includes some very high mileage units. The larger roller bearings (floating bearings) on the ends of the shafts that you mentioned are actually held in place by pressure from the end plate bolted over them. If you look at the inside of the plate you will see the casing that clamps them in place. In all of the X1/9 transmissions I have torn into, I have never seen one that spun in the case. In fact, it is very rare to see any bearing spun in an X1/9 transmission.
The most common bearing failure for an X transmission is the diff carrier bearings and these usually fail from not being correctly shimmed after a rebuild. After you install the new bearings, be sure to check the preload and re-shim the diff if necessary.
Steve
<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 60px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Correction Steve ?<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]November 28 2000, 5:44 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 60px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Gotcha. Yes....thrust...endplay is retained by the input shaft seal holder and the other hole is blind as you well know. I was talking sideplay though. The question ( that we don't have the answer to ) is if the gap was planned or cut to the highside of manufacturing tolerances during machining. Only the Drawings will tell. To four places....know what I mean ? It's evident they designed cutouts for a puller in the blind hole. You ever seen a bearing not pressed into an aluminum case ? The Engineering Department has this Drawing....and I'm betting it's in Italian...show me the object lines and the numbers !......Thanks for the the historical perspective on bearing wear Steve very much appreciated. It gives me a real warm and fuzzy feeling I just pulled the bearings when they probably could've gone for another engine or two ! HA, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha Great Fun. I had no way of ascertaining what the rated material removal rate was on these particular bearings. I do supposed I could have investigated the rate though. It's readily obtainable data for other bearing types. Easier to remove and replace. I'll have to quailfy that... I got em removed...we'll see how the pressing stage goes. The Diff ? I'm thinking of using the feeler guage routine in lieu of the height block and indicator. Seems that this later method should work just fine; right ? Out for now, lezesig( '79 awaiting tranny bearings )
<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]