Fuel Injection Fun

janet80

janet80

lovin' my X
So... I decided I was making the fuel manifold and rail look more like a tangle of parts than it actually was. I finally got down to work and unbolted the manifold assembly and swung it out of the way. Just to let you know, folks, these little fuel hoses are made out of elephant hide! Yes, the little devils can leak, but just cut one in half and you'll see how thick, tough and reinforced they are! :eyepop:
I had to put the job aside yesterday to attend a family function, but now I am finally well underway with the fuel hose project. I am hoping the hoses slip on a little easier than they are removed. I will feel safer driving the X to work everyday knowing the hoses have been renewed.
 
Nice New Hoses

Yes, they go on easily. (Especially if you take Matt's advice and apply a tiny bit of oil.)

And learn from my mistake: Make sure that the injector blower thingy will clear the hoseclamps.

Good luck!
 
mean bear

What a bear removing the fuel injection rail hoses! I worked until my arm muscles were rubbery but I cut away at the hoses and worked them off with razor knives, needlenose pliers and a metal pick. I managed to snap the tips off quite a few razor blades. Putting hoses back on was certainly easier. I did save the collars, so I tried to make sure the new 7.5mm ID hoses were snugged down into the collars. So far I have replaced the four injector pieces, the fuel rail union piece, the cold start injector line, the fuel filter-to-inlet line, and another inlet line. The hoses without collars were fitted with fuel injection smooth clamps. One metal inlet fitting had a crack through the outermost barb, but the lower barb was Ok so I figured it would seal allright.
After reassembling everything I saw the weird trunk air snorkel intake thing lying there. Crap; I forgot to put it back on. :whistle:That's OK, I need to sand off some light rust and paint it anyway. Since I have to remove the intake AGAIN I'll try to take some pictures.
 
Hey Janet, It'll go on without

taking the whole thing apart. Just loosen up ONE of the injectors in the middle. It'll snake itself in there if one of the center injectors spreads a bit. I've done it a couple times with repeated results. The plenum can stay on too.

Good luck!
 
Thanks Bob

That would save me some time!
When I am sure the fuel hose integrity is certain, I only have a few issues to address before I can drive the X as my daily driver (except for snow and salt) again.
Next projects:
BRAKE WORK; I changed the pads but the caliper piston rubber seals don't look too good. I may have to install those rebuild kits I bought from Matt. I have all parts needed to nenew virually anything on the brake system.
COLD START ISSUES; I received the car right before winter last year, and I need to test the cold start system to find out whether the thermo-time switch or the cold-start valve is bad. I have the procedure from this website.
CAR SLOW TO WARM UP; maybe thermostat is defective
FUEL PUMP RUNS THE ENTIRE TIME KEY IS ON START; I read some posts about the air flap, will investigate.
BAD 2ND GEAR SYNCHRO; That will have to wait awhile.
Learning as I go, I just wish summer were still here! I really prefer being a "shadetree" mechanic.
 
There heresy of aviation snips:

I (ahem) trimmed about 3mm off each side of the piece and it slipped right in. Yeah, I know, butchery....

The odd bit is that last summer when my mine sprung a leak it was also the filter output line. A gentle bend away from the heat and flexing. Why there? But my symptom was the same: vigorous crank with no hint of starting...followed by noticing a stream of fluid leaving the underside of my car and heading across the parking lot. As soon as I opened the door and got a whiff, I knew that I was in trouble. When I popped the deck the entire engine, from thermostat to cam belt, was dripping in fuel. I realized that only a few seconds earlier I was harshly admonishing the poor thing to start.

As the old saying goes, "When the gods wish to punish us they answer our prayers." I guess it wasn't our time to shed these mortal [heli]coils.

Best wishes on your projects.
 
Thanks Charles

You may be right about the hard start. Not too long after I bought my X, When starting the car to leave work last fall I had a nasty fuel incident similar to what you experienced. In my case it was the inlet hose from the top of the fuel filter. Now that the hoses have been replaced, I may not have a hart start condition after all. Thanks for reminding me.:cool:
 
Arggg.... Janet.

Replacing those injector hoses are never fun.. It's more like doing surgery than working on the car... due to all the carving with knife/razor blades trying to get the old hoses off..and if any of the barbed hose ends on the injector or fuel manifold gets a deep cut from the blade, it could leak.

Make sure all the other EI fuel hoses are replaced too. Including the one from the tank to the fuel pump, fuel pump to filter and the fuel return to tank.. These will all be just as 30 year old tired as the injector hoses..

Brakes:
Replace the rotors and make sure those wedgiees are in good shape and well lubed (moly grease) before re-using them. These slider wedgiees can be a source of number of brake problems.

Fuel Pump Run On:
Possible the micro switch in the AFM flap is stuck on or the flap is bent from a back fire at some point in it's life. If the flap is bent, it can cause other drivability problems too.

Slow Warm Up:
How long does it take to "warm up"? There might not be a problem here.

2nd Gear Syncro:
Are the other syncros OK? This is the orginal transaxle?
Regardless, this could be a transaxale 101 project..

:dance2:
Bernice



janet80 said:
That would save me some time!
When I am sure the fuel hose integrity is certain, I only have a few issues to address before I can drive the X as my daily driver (except for snow and salt) again.
Next projects:
BRAKE WORK; I changed the pads but the caliper piston rubber seals don't look too good. I may have to install those rebuild kits I bought from Matt. I have all parts needed to nenew virually anything on the brake system.
COLD START ISSUES; I received the car right before winter last year, and I need to test the cold start system to find out whether the thermo-time switch or the cold-start valve is bad. I have the procedure from this website.
CAR SLOW TO WARM UP; maybe thermostat is defective
FUEL PUMP RUNS THE ENTIRE TIME KEY IS ON START; I read some posts about the air flap, will investigate.
BAD 2ND GEAR SYNCHRO; That will have to wait awhile.
Learning as I go, I just wish summer were still here! I really prefer being a "shadetree" mechanic.
Click to expand...
 
Rupunzell said:
Arggg.... Janet.

Replacing those injector hoses are never fun.. It's more like doing surgery than working on the car... due to all the carving with knife/razor blades trying to get the old hoses off..and if any of the barbed hose ends on the injector or fuel manifold gets a deep cut from the blade, it could leak.

Make sure all the other EI fuel hoses are replaced too. Including the one from the tank to the fuel pump, fuel pump to filter and the fuel return to tank.. These will all be just as 30 year old tired as the injector hoses..

Brakes:
Replace the rotors and make sure those wedgiees are in good shape and well lubed (moly grease) before re-using them. These slider wedgiees can be a source of number of brake problems.

Fuel Pump Run On:
Possible the micro switch in the AFM flap is stuck on or the flap is bent from a back fire at some point in it's life. If the flap is bent, it can cause other drivability problems too.

Slow Warm Up:
How long does it take to "warm up"? There might not be a problem here.

2nd Gear Syncro:
Are the other syncros OK? This is the orginal transaxle?
Regardless, this could be a transaxale 101 project..

:dance2:
Bernice
Click to expand...

Hi Bernice, I rolled the X outside and started it up. Let it run for 20 minutes or so, didn't see or smell any fuel leaks.
I have some large FI braid-covered hose I bought for the tank-to- pump and the pump-to-filter. I have to buy some more hose for the fuel return.

I didn't know the wedges could cause problems; when I get back to the brakes I'll tap them out and grease them. I suppose at the price, new rotors wouldn't be a bad Idea. I have brake hoses. I also have the brake master which I plan on installing at the same time as the clutch master. I don't have the handbrake cables, which I need to look at, adjust and possibly replace. I am getting psyched up to tackle those physical jobs.

Three weeks ago I put on a new water pump impeller and related gaskets which ranks up there with some of the harder mechanical repairs I have done to my 124 Spider. So far I don't detect any water pump or coolant tube leaks. I followed Chris Obert's X-bleeding guide and it works like a charm. I do suspect the beginnings of a leak at the overflow tank dimple area, however.

The car was a little difficult to start, but I figured I had to get fuel back into the hoses and injectors. The car sat for a month. It is 35 degrees here in Dayton Ohio.
The car ran for all those minutes and, as it always has since I've owned it, took forever to get past 120 on the gauge. It takes a long time to get heat into the interior, so I think the gauge is accurate. It finally made it to 180 after about fifteen minutes of idling... Not very practical in regards to fuel consumption when I warm up my car to leave for work. I might as well drive an old pickup truck! My old carbureted X back in the day liked to overheat at the drop of a hat.

I'm going to pull up the Xweb posts on the AFM and take a look in there.

Shifting is not as precise as I would like it to be. I have already replaced the lollipop and related hardware. I know when I am driving if I don't think about the vague shift guide or shifting I hit the gears better.Of course, I drive the Spider and it shifts differently so it takes awhile to readjust to the the driving style of the X. I have to E-A-S-E the lever into second at 10-15 MPH. It doesn't pop out of gear. Reverse is a little hard to get into sometimes. I believe it's the original transaxle. The only thing that looks out of place on the car is that the smog equipment is gone. I haven't seen any weird wire splices or add-ons other than the additions of a CD changer in the frunk and the automatic antenna.
Thanks for your help, Bernice and all others who have contributed info!
 
Speaking for myself here

Chris St-Louis said:
snipped out - original post has been withdrawn
Click to expand...

That's not funny.

Of course you have every right to say pretty much whatever you please, and no particular reason to care about what I find funny or not, so now that you've heard me say that it's not funny, I'm done.
 
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Hey Denise... Coupla things...

Slow warm-up...

Actually, 15 minutes doesn't sound that long, especially in your current climate. BUT.... if your t-stat is not fully closed, then coolant will be circulating up front to the radiator and it will indeed take quite a bit longer to heat up. Check the reservoir for continuous flow when you initially start the car... and I use a turkey thermometer to see how the water temp is doing relative to the gauge.

OH... and if yur careful, you can reach down and FEEL the hoses going up front and you should be able to feel the difference in HEAT when the stat does open and routes the coolant towards the radiator. You should also see a difference in FLOW in the reservoir when this happens also.

I'm not sure how to FULLY TEST the t-stat other than pulling it and inspecting it or using a pot to boil it in... but the problem we are looking for here is leak-by... meaning a faulty rubber gasket or a failure for the t-stat to close fully. If ya haven't changed the stat this mightbe something you would wanna do anyway... not that difficult or expensive. You could pull the old one and reinstall it if there is no apparent tropuble, but after going to the effort, its probably best to just install a new one.

Anyway...

Syncros...

If you have not installed Redline MTL in the trans as yet... spend the 40 bucks and do it. It may almost ELIMINATE your syncro problem... Just about 100% of the folks that have installed MTL just LOVE the improvement. I highly recommend it. More details if needed.
 
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What does you Temp read when on the freeway?

In my experience sometimes with a stuck open thermostat the car will run a good bit cooler when you get the car moving along pretty good like on the freeway.

-Tim
 
Tim... a few years back I had a...

... real "learning experience" that I wrote up and put in Best Of, in the old forum. I called it Thermostat 102. You might wanna go look at it...

But in short... a GOOD thermostat (and a good system) will keep the car at a constant temp REGARDLESS of the speed or anything else you do.

To answer your question specifically... in THEORY, a stat that is not able to SLOW the water flow sufficiently enough to allow time to COOL in the radiator... then the coolant will only get hotter and hotter. I have found this to be so in PRACTICE as well.

BTW... my (former) problems with high temps at speed were due to the LICENSE PLATE deflecting air DOWN and around the radiator's entrance and then again, when I FIRST designed a towbar adapter that did the same thing. My inexpensive advice if you must run a front plate is to move it off to one side. (This is not much of a problem at low speeds as the air is able to collapse around the plate and then flow through...)

As far as the TEMP READING... its rock steady at 185 regardless. (I also used a couple of thermometers in the reservoir one time and proved the accuracy to be real close.) The only time I experience temperature rises is in traffic on hot days, and then my dual fans click on and square that away. Otherwise, they NEVER come on, as normal air flow is sufficient when moving.
 
Black-Tooth said:
To answer your question specifically... in THEORY, a stat that is not able to SLOW the water flow sufficiently enough to allow time to COOL in the radiator... then the coolant will only get hotter and hotter. I have found this to be so in PRACTICE as well.
Click to expand...

Great info Tony. Here is an example of why I commented what I did. Although not an X but a Fiat (spider) - in my youth I had a faulty t-stat that was frozen closed and would barely open at the correct temp (or any temp for that matter!). The car ran hot and that was the only symptom. I needed the car running so I pulled the t-stat and put it back together. Warm-up took forever as I had suspected it would but the car never climbed over 160 degrees while driving freeway and a tad warmer in city driving.

Anyway - I had a similar experience in an X as well where in that case the t-stat was stuck open. It also took forever to warm up but same behavior on the freeway vs city driving. I soon after replaced the t-stat and all was right with the world again...
 
Hello Janet,

Drain the fuel tank before replacing the fuel pump feed and fuel pressure regulator return hose. There will be a real fuel mess otherwise. Just a good high high quality fuel rated hose should be fine for the return, I sort of remember 1/4" ID works for this, but check. 1/2" ID works for the Bosch Fuel pump feed hose.

Those brake wedgees can cause all kinds of problems. sticking calipers, tapered pad wear, side to side un-even pad wear and more. They can also get bent into a slight curve in service. Check to see if they are flat with smooth surfaces. Any excessive friction here will cause problems.

Hand brake cables and pulleys usually don't give problems, but they do need to be adjusted every so often. You're looking more at adjusting than replacing. If you do replace that hand brake cable, it's pretty involved.

x1/9 water pumps are not fun to do. On the earlier cars without the access panel, they are a major chore. Same with 79' and 80' with carb and the later AC cars are great fun..

If possible, get one of the older SST tanks that is in good condition. Check the brass filler neck's seat for ptting or excessive corrosion before installing or it will leak. This tank uses a different cap than the plastic tank on later x1/9s.

Better to drive the car easy to warm it up rather than sit and idle. This is what I do. The car tends to warm up a bit faster overall. Idling cars tend to waste fuel.

If you need an alternative AFM as a swap in check, send me a note. Got spares...

Transaxles are not that difficult to work on. If you do take on that project, read over transaxle 101 and my notes on what is involved with working on this transaxle.


janet80 said:
Hi Bernice, I rolled the X outside and started it up. Let it run for 20 minutes or so, didn't see or smell any fuel leaks.
I have some large FI braid-covered hose I bought for the tank-to- pump and the pump-to-filter. I have to buy some more hose for the fuel return.

I didn't know the wedges could cause problems; when I get back to the brakes I'll tap them out and grease them. I suppose at the price, new rotors wouldn't be a bad Idea. I have brake hoses. I also have the brake master which I plan on installing at the same time as the clutch master. I don't have the handbrake cables, which I need to look at, adjust and possibly replace. I am getting psyched up to tackle those physical jobs.

Three weeks ago I put on a new water pump impeller and related gaskets which ranks up there with some of the harder mechanical repairs I have done to my 124 Spider. So far I don't detect any water pump or coolant tube leaks. I followed Chris Obert's X-bleeding guide and it works like a charm. I do suspect the beginnings of a leak at the overflow tank dimple area, however.

The car was a little difficult to start, but I figured I had to get fuel back into the hoses and injectors. The car sat for a month. It is 35 degrees here in Dayton Ohio.
The car ran for all those minutes and, as it always has since I've owned it, took forever to get past 120 on the gauge. It takes a long time to get heat into the interior, so I think the gauge is accurate. It finally made it to 180 after about fifteen minutes of idling... Not very practical in regards to fuel consumption when I warm up my car to leave for work. I might as well drive an old pickup truck! My old carbureted X back in the day liked to overheat at the drop of a hat.

I'm going to pull up the Xweb posts on the AFM and take a look in there.

Shifting is not as precise as I would like it to be. I have already replaced the lollipop and related hardware. I know when I am driving if I don't think about the vague shift guide or shifting I hit the gears better.Of course, I drive the Spider and it shifts differently so it takes awhile to readjust to the the driving style of the X. I have to E-A-S-E the lever into second at 10-15 MPH. It doesn't pop out of gear. Reverse is a little hard to get into sometimes. I believe it's the original transaxle. The only thing that looks out of place on the car is that the smog equipment is gone. I haven't seen any weird wire splices or add-ons other than the additions of a CD changer in the frunk and the automatic antenna.
Thanks for your help, Bernice and all others who have contributed info!
Click to expand...
 
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