Fuel Injectors

Discussion in 'Workshop Forum' started by Larry, Mar 14, 2019.

  1. Larry

    Larry True Classic

    Location:
    Santa Clara, CA
    I've got some injectors I picked up some number of years ago that are labeled X1/9 and others that are labeled 124. The part numbers are different so I'm wondering if they injectors are car specific?

    The part numbers are: 4430293 (those are labeled X1/9) and 4393596 (those are labeled 124).

    Same question for the cold start injector - the one I have shows a part number of: 4398118 - were they specific to a car or will it work on either one?

    Larry
    '79 X1/9
     
  2. Waterbury

    Waterbury True Classic

    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    I did a quick search on the cold start injector P/N and came up with "Fiat spider cold start valve Fiat X1/9 berttone "5th Injector". also fits Pininfarina Spider Fiat brava other models Fiat . Fiat 4398118 7579289 Lancia Beta"

    For the X1/9 labeled injector that you have I found "It replaces Fiat part numbers 4393596 and 4430293 and fits 124 Spiders, 131 Bravas, Stradas and X 1/9s."
     
  3. rx1900

    rx1900 1981 X1/9

    Hi Larry. Hope this helps...

    The following info is derived from my genuine Bosch Fuel Injection catalog, North American version, dated 1993. Guess it is not absolute gospel....but surely right from Bosch should be as accurate as you could get....

    The fuel injector for all X1/9 1980 to 1988 is listed as Bosch # 0 280 150 123 and is Fiat # 4430293. It is only also common to Fiat Strada.

    The fuel injector for 124 spider and 131 1980-1981 is Bosch # 0 280 150 121 and is Fiat # 4393596. Common to nothing else.

    The fuel injector for 124 Spyder 1982 is Bosch # 0 280 150 127. No Fiat # given. Common to nothing else.

    Strangely....the catalog does not list the 124 spyder at all past 1982 ( and neither under Pininfarina ). Nor do they list any Lancia models at all. Using those Bosch #s in a google search indicates they also fit some later euro models like Argentia and Dedra and such.

    So....are the X1/9 and 124 injectors the same ?? Tough to tell !!!!! And depends who you believe LOL......

    MWB - and some other aftermarket efi suppliers claim that all the above injectors are all the same. With MWB claiming the only reason for different Fiat and Bosch #s is that.....the injectors are supplied complete with the inlet hose already on them, and that the hoses are different length between the X1/9/Strada, and 124/131 applications. Hence the different parts #s - but they say the injectors themselves are the same - thus identical flow, etc.

    On the other hand....other web sources that give flow specs for different Bosch injectors, actually show slightly different flow rates between the 121 and 123 injectors.

    Verdict..i dunno for sure where the truth lies. Personally....they are probably pretty close to the same....but dont think i would mix the 2 within the same engine....

    As for the cold start valve.......same catalog shows:

    The cold start valve for X1/9 1980 to 1988 is Bosch # 0 280 170 031 and is Fiat # 4429210. Common to Alfa Spyder '82-'89, BMW 325e '85-'88, BMW 528e '82-'87, Strada '80-'81, Porsche 912e '76, Renault:Fuego 1.6 '82-'82, R17TL '75-'77, R18i '80-'83, Triumph TR7 2.0 '80-'81, VW: Beetle '75-'79 and Type 2 bus '78.

    The cold start valve for Fiat 124 spider and 131 '80-'82 is Bosch # 0 280 170 041 and is Fiat # 4398118. Common to nothing else.

    According to MWB......these 2 cold start injectors have the same flow rate and function....BUT...the fuel inlet barb is in a different position. And can be interchanged if you re-route the fuel line to the inlet and use an appropriate longer/or shorter fuel hose.

    So Larry...if you have a 4398118....compare it to the cold start valve currently on your X1/9 and see if you agree ??

    Hope this helps...but I probably just confused you more !!!!

    Doug
     
    PaulD likes this.
  4. Dan Sarandrea (Phila)

    Dan Sarandrea (Phila) Waitin' On Parts...

    Location:
    Philadelphia, PA

    According to this table http://users.erols.com/srweiss/tableifc.htm (scroll down to the third Bosch "paragraph") there is a capacity difference between the SOHC and the DOHC injectors:
    Bosch Part # 0-280-150-121 Alfa 2.0l, Fiat 2.0l, Lancia 4-2.0l, Pininfarina 4-2.0l -
    Bosch Part # 0-280-150-123 Alfa v6-2.5l, Bertone 4-1.5l, Fiat 4-1.5l, Opel 2.9l, Renault 4-1.6l, Triumph 2.0l, v8-3.5l

    The table seems to be saying that the SOHC injectors flow more than the DOHC injectors, which seems a bit counter-intuitive!
     
  5. Dr.Jeff

    Dr.Jeff True Classic

    Location:
    Sin City
    I recall from a Bosch training seminar many (many) years ago that similar Bosch injectors might have very minor differences from model to model to offer a specific design specification for each application. Those differences might not have been much, but were considered "correct" for the particular system. While several injectors might have the same dimensions and therefore could be interchanged physically, each had been designed for its intended application with corresponding performance values. They seemed almost religious about everything having to be exactly correct.

    However some years ago when Bosch changed ownership (merged under a larger umbrella) they went through several major reorganizations. Included was a massive streamlining of their product offerings. Lots of similar part numbers were combined into one number, many products were eliminated and substitute numbers listed, and basically a big reduction in the overall inventory to simplify their line. Along with those changes they introduced a new numbering system with "universal" product identifiers. Cross reference charts would list hundreds (in some cases) of the old part numbers under one new universal number. Obviously they had decided all of the minor differences between each part's design wasn't necessary, because there is no way all of those old part numbers were the same item (as they now are). Apparently they aren't as religious about things any more.

    As Doug said, the two injectors initially asked about here are likely very similar but not identical. Both should work fine in either application, but I would not mix them on the same engine. I think it is much more important that all four injectors are functioning properly (good spray patterns and correct fuel volume rate), regardless of the part number.

    Cold start injectors are much less critical. They only operate for short periods under certain conditions when the whole system isn't at its peak potential. They are a very simple design and not that precise. So I'd use pretty much any cold start injector that will fit the manifold.
     
  6. Dr.Jeff

    Dr.Jeff True Classic

    Location:
    Sin City
    I know what you mean. The injectors for the Uno Turbo have significantly less flow than the ones for the X1/9. Granted the X is 1.5L while the UT is 1.3L, but the UT is turbo charged with a much higher performance output.
    It might have to do with how the ECU's are programmed for each system.
     
  7. beezee

    beezee True Classic

    I am sure fuel pressure is a big factor as well.

    Brian
     
    Dr.Jeff likes this.
  8. Larry

    Larry True Classic

    Location:
    Santa Clara, CA
    Thanks for all the advice and suggestions.

    It looks like I'll be using the 4 NOS Remanufactured Injectors I picked up from a XWeb member in 2017.

    Unless someone has 2 NOS X1/9 Injectors for sale... I picked up 2 NOS X1/9 Injectors maybe 10 or so years ago.

    Any advice to make sure the injectors are ready to go from having been in their what look like original boxes/wrapping for the past number of years?

    Larry
     
  9. kmead

    kmead Insufferable dum bass

    Location:
    Michigan
    Once you are ready to use them you could use some carb cleaner to clean them out. Hooking up a 9v battery will allow you to excercise them and spray through them to get rid of any goo that may be in there from production testing and any preservative that may have been applied.
     
    beezee and lookforjoe like this.
  10. Dr.Jeff

    Dr.Jeff True Classic

    Location:
    Sin City
    Karl's excellent suggestion to do a quick flush of the injectors reminded me of an item I saw on eBay. You really won't need this to perform a quick rinse in your case (although it might make things a little easier to do). But having been reminded of it, I thought I'd post a link for others to review. It can help to clean dirty injectors or at least do a basic spray pattern test.
    https://www.ebay.com/itm/DIY-Car-Fu...er-Kit-Set-Vehicle-Cleaners-Tool/172823073408

    I made a injector testing/cleaning rig with a extra FI fuel pump, pressure gauge, wire harness similar to what comes with the above item, some fuel hose and appropriate attachments, a couple of containers, and a stand to hold everything. Basically it does the same thing but with any solvent I choose and in any volume I wish. Trying to clean old injectors is a bit of 'hit or miss'; it requires quite a lot of flushing in both directions with some seriously strong solvent, and still may not be successful. So a spray can of carb cleaner (like the above item uses) isn't enough in many cases. Plus having a graduated cylinder to measure the flow rate, at a known pressure is helpful. But that eBay item is very inexpensive and convenient for a simple cleaning job if the injectors aren't too bad.
     
    Rodger and kmead like this.
  11. Larry

    Larry True Classic

    Location:
    Santa Clara, CA
    Oops... the 4 NOS Injectors are for a Spider. From what I've read through the answers on this post, the hoses are different lengths. Silly question, but can I just swap the hoses between the Spider injectors to the X1/9 injectors?
     
  12. beezee

    beezee True Classic

    That's what I did with mine. I attached an aerosol can of carb cleaner and used a 9 V battery. Spraying into a glass container will allow you to see the spray pattern.

    Brian
     
  13. Larry

    Larry True Classic

    Location:
    Santa Clara, CA
    Did you just stick the can o' carb cleaner into the hose?
     
  14. beezee

    beezee True Classic

    The can I bought had a large nozzle so I ran a hose from the can to the injector and tightened secured everything with hose clamps. Then I applied battery voltage to the injector and pressed the nozzle on the can. Gunk products have the large nozzle.

    Brian
     
    Larry likes this.
  15. Dr.Jeff

    Dr.Jeff True Classic

    Location:
    Sin City
    Yes. Often replacement injectors do not include the hoses, so they must be added. It is regular 7.5mm fuel injection (10 bar) fuel hose. Just be sure to use the proper FI style hose clamps:
    fic_7.jpg
     
    Larry likes this.

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