Gearbox locked

Bjorn Nilson

Bjorn Nilson

True Classic
When I bought my overhauled UT engine the deal also included a 5 speed X1/9 gearbox. The seller had no information about the gearbox but he said that "it should be ok". I checked that all gears worked and that everything turned, fitted new shaft sealings, added Redline MT90 and put it in the car together with the UT engine. Then connected linkage, lollypop and everything worked fine.
Now 4 months later it is time to start the new engine for the first time. Yesterday I sat in driver's seat and just for fun shifted 1-2-3-4-5-N-R a couple of times. Suddenly 1-2-3-4 gears couldn't go in position. -They couldn't be reached😟. All that now works is 5th, neutral and reverse. Final drive is completely stuck at all times but engine turns freely when in neutral.
I suspect something happened with selector shafts and/or with selector forks. What do you think? Can this be fixed without dismantling the gearbox?
I still have another tranny from my 1500 but I rather not use it. It is leaking and it would take me at least a week to have new sealings from abroad.
Stupid me. I shouldn't have used the transmission with an unknown history.
 
That really sucks. Sorry I can't offer any constructive advice. Hopefully Steve H or one of the other members who have dismantled a number of these will respond.
 
Bjorn Nilson said:
Can this be fixed without dismantling the gearbox?
Click to expand...
Undo the lollipop linkage and try shifting with a visegrips at the transmission. That will tell you whether the problem is in the shift linkage (easy fix) or tranny (more likely, and worse news).

If it’s in the transmission you can remove the end cap, which will give you access to the ends of the shifter rods. Try pushing these in, see if that unlocks the transmission. (If it does, expect the problem to recur).

Most likely the transmission is going to have to come out and be opened up.
 
To diagnose such a problem it is fundamental to understand what exactly is the symptom.

You said 1-4 couldn't be reached. Does the shift lever move normally left and right but will not move forward/backward to select the individual gears? Or will it not move far enough left to reach the 1-2 and 3-4 fore/aft positions?

My initial thought is that the lollipop top connection is loose, or the lower motor mount is sagging and the shift rod is fouling the tunnel opening.
 
I agree with Steve. What are the most likely causes of a sudden shift problem?
1) loose linkage
2) loose support cradle
3) internal transmission fault.
First thing I would do is jack up the back of the car and put it on stands. Then I would put a floor jack under the mount support cradle but not pushing up on the cradle.
Check to see if the 4 cradle bolts are properly fixed or are they loose.
If they are loose, jack the cradle up so it contacts the frame mounting points.
If they are loose, that allows the powertrain to drop down which jambs the shift linkage.
Sometimes the cradle bolt holes get stripped and the bolts pull out. There is a thread elsewhere on that subject.
 
Steve Hoelscher said:
To diagnose such a problem it is fundamental to understand what exactly is the symptom.

You said 1-4 couldn't be reached. Does the shift lever move normally left and right but will not move forward/backward to select the individual gears? Or will it not move far enough left to reach the 1-2 and 3-4 fore/aft positions?
Click to expand...
Hoped that you would read this. I trust your expertize in this matter.
This is not a lollypop/linkage issue. I removed linkage for troubleshooting. The shift lever cannot move enough to the left to reach 1-2 and 3-4 but moving to right to reach 5-R works.
 
Which shifter to transaxle to shaft is in the car? These are not all the same. Before yanking out the UT transaxle, disconnect the connection between shift rod to transaxle, apply a vise grip or similar to the end of the shifter rod on the transaxle to check if ALL the gears can be engaged with the clutch released.

Do not assume the transaxle is DOA until this is checked, if it was OK before these transaxles do not suddenly die after an engine change out. It is possible something changed with the engine mounts or related to the engine change out?


Bernice
 
He said with the linkage disconnected the shift lever won't move. If I interpreted that correctly then the transaxle is not a problem, the shifter is.
 
"The shift lever cannot move enough to the left to reach 1-2 and 3-4 but moving to right to reach 5-R works."

Shift lever implies the gear lever by the driver, shift rod is the item connecting the transaxle shifting internals to the shift lever by the driver.
Clarification.

Before yanking the transaxle out of the car, it is possible to drain the transaxle, remove the 5th gear cover and have a look-see at the shifter rods in action while the shifter connection that protrudes out of the transaxle is moved.

Benice
 
Bjorn Nilson said:
Hoped that you would read this. I trust your expertize in this matter.
This is not a lollypop/linkage issue. I removed linkage for troubleshooting. The shift lever cannot move enough to the left to reach 1-2 and 3-4 but moving to right to reach 5-R works.
Click to expand...

Bjorn, I assume that English is a second language for you and even if not, the European use of language is often different to the American version. So please forgive my request for clarification. I am trying to ensure I understand what you are stating.

You say this isn't a "linkage/lollipop issue" and that you removed the linkage for troubleshooting. So for clarification: does that mean that: with the linkage disconnected from the transmission the shift lever inside the car won't move left to reach 1-2/3-4? Or: after removing the linkage you used a pair of vise-grips on the transmission's main shift rod and cannot rotate it to select the 1-2/3-4 gears?
 
Update!
Mounted the drive shafts, linkage and lollypop. Got help from my friend to rock the car backward and forward. It seems like we can move the shifter both left and right but only 5th and reverse can be selected. Neutral is not free rolling without engaging clutch. It seems like any gear 1-5 is constantly engaged as the engine is turning clockwise when rocking the car forward (even when R is in position). With 5th in position, the gearbox is completely locked and engine not turning at all.
 
Steve Hoelscher said:
You say this isn't a "linkage/lollipop issue" and that you removed the linkage for troubleshooting. So for clarification: does that mean that: with the linkage disconnected from the transmission the shift lever inside the car won't move left to reach 1-2/3-4? Or: after removing the linkage you used a pair of vise-grips on the transmission's main shift rod and cannot rotate it to select the 1-2/3-4 gears?
Click to expand...
Sorry for my bad English. I removed the linkage and used a pair of wise-grips on the transmission. The shift stick (in the car) was not in use. It seems like a gear is engaged regardless of shift position (5th, N or R). However, see my latest post for a complete update about what is happening.
 
Hmmm.....couple of long shots here....but are easy to check

If...your X was... a 1300 model....I think you have to use the complete 1500 5 speed shifter and all linkage. And there is something in the tranny tunnel on the 1300 models that interferes with part of the 5 speed shifter.

Or......if...when you bolted on the lower engine mount.....you used a bolt that was just a bit too long.....the end of the bolt then jams against the shifter rod inside the tranny and locks it up. Someone here was dumb enough to do that.......
 
rx1900 said:
Or......if...when you bolted on the lower engine mount.....you used a bolt that was just a bit too long.....the end of the bolt then jams against the shifter rod inside the tranny and locks it up. Someone here was dumb enough to do that.......
Click to expand...
That's one thought that came to my mind as well, it's happened to a few members. But I'm not qualified to really diagnose a trans issue remotely so I'll wait to hear what happens. However it sure would be nice if the issue was caused by something externally like that, and therefore easily solved.
 
As previously posted.

Drain the oil out of the transaxle, then remove the 5th gear cover. Once that cover is off the shift shaft activity can be observed as the shift shaft on the transaxle is moved over the range of gears. This will allow some assessment of what might be wrong.


Bernice


Bjorn Nilson said:
Sorry for my bad English. I removed the linkage and used a pair of wise-grips on the transmission. The shift stick (in the car) was not in use. It seems like a gear is engaged regardless of shift position (5th, N or R). However, see my latest post for a complete update about what is happening.
Click to expand...
 
I watched the video. Clearly the car is stuck in a forward gear.

I would first disconnect the linkage from the transmission and use a pair of vise-grips to see if the main rod movement corresponds to the shifter. It should rotate normally, and when rotated to the R-5th position, move in/out of the case. But not move in/out in any other position.

Assuming the disconnected main shift rod moves the same as the shift lever, then jack up the left side of the car, remove the left rear wheel and the end cap from the transmission. You won't need to drain the oil yet. With the cap off we can ascertain the position of the 5th-R shaft and the 3-4 shaft. You cannot see the 1-2 shaft without removing 5th gear and the interface plate below it.
 
One additional thought, I have had a "jammed" transmission in the past and in that instance, all I had to do is loosen the detent balls cover plate and then move the gear shift to "un-jam" it then just tighten the cover back up. This can occur if one of shift rod moves past the indent position on the shaft.
 
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