Help me resurrect my '86 X. (fuel injection system troubleshooting)

Dan Sarandrea (Phila) said:
You could try the "tickle" technique or the "tapetty-tap-tap" technique to try to coax injectors to somewhat function after a long slumber.

The tapetty-tap-tap technique has you placing a longer object (say a wooden dowel or long screwdriver) against a part of an injector you can reach, and then just lightly tap-tap-tap with a small hammer, the idea being the love-taps will help to free up the plungers inside the injector.

The tickle technique harnesses the power of a typical 9v "transistor radio" battery (wow that sounds ancient LOL). You unplug the injector's connector, and then use a fresh 9v battery to energize the plunger coil in the injector. You can rig up a harness with scrap wire or pick up a generic Bosch FI slash EV-1 pigtail connector at a parts store. The tickle part comes from how you energize it---you contact and release one of the wire leads to one of the battery terminals as rapidly as you can, 2-3-4 times per second. In VERY quite surroundings you can hear the injector click.
View attachment 37539
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Tried tickling the injector on the right side (easiest to access).

I put my ear as close to the injector as I could when I did it, but I didn’t hear any clicking or movement.

If it’s popping open, I should probably be able to hear it, no?

I have a feeling these suckers are really gummed up.

Only one way to find out now..
 
Do yourself a favor and quit now. Remove all five injectors and send them out for rebuild. Re-install them when you get them back and if your fuel pump and filter are in working condition, the car should fire right up.

If you want to test prior, replace your cold start injector with a known good one. Even if the four mains don't fire, the car will start and run for a second or two from the CSI.
 
😂 Yes BJ, I hear you. I've spent the last couple of days working my way through the FI troubleshooting manual.

It's been a great learning experience and I feel I better understand the FI system now, so I'm glad I did it, but I'm ready to be done. Ha.

I will start disassembly to remove and clean them on Monday. And I will include the CSI.

I'm quite curious now to pull them out and see what kid of shape they're in.
 
The injectors are clamped in place with plastic holders, which again are mounted to the intake with machine screws. Two screws pr. injector. Many find that these screws don't give up without a fight, so it's a good idea to get some penetrating oil in there before trying to get them out. My favorite is Aero Kroil from Kano labs. I usually apply Kroil once or twice / day for a day or two before attempting to undo fasteners like this.
 
If you are removing the injectors to be sent out for cleaning, order new hose to replace ALL the lines on/off the rail & injector housing seals (2) per injector. The housings can also be cracked and/or carbon coated beyond easy cleanup, so check them before you order & possibly get those as well. This is not something you really want to repeat. MWB has a hose kit precut to length(s). I use Volvo stuff, so I just used a length of their line (sold by the meter) & cut as needed. I use oetiker clamps - you can work these small ones with just cutting pliers (dykes), no need for the special tool here.

The originals won't have clamps at the base - they used a collar over the hose to prevent expansion - you have to cut that off

X19-0981.jpg


X19-0916.jpg


X19-0917.jpg
 
ng_randolph said:
The injectors are clamped in place with plastic holders, which again are mounted to the intake with machine screws. Two screws pr. injector. Many find that these screws don't give up without a fight, so it's a good idea to get some penetrating oil in there before trying to get them out. My favorite is Aero Kroil from Kano labs. I usually apply Kroil once or twice / day for a day or two before attempting to undo fasteners like this.
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Yes, I've read posts in the archives about how those little allen screw like to stick and break off.

So, duly noted, thank you. I will hit them with penetrating oil and tap them lightly and let them soak before trying to carefully ease them loose. I'm going to go slowly and try not to rush it.

I even ordered 2 extras from MWB, just in case I break 1 or 2. Tried to plan ahead.
 
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lookforjoe said:
If you are removing the injectors to be sent out for cleaning, order new hose to replace ALL the lines on/off the rail & injector housing seals (2) per injector. The housings can also be cracked and/or carbon coated beyond easy cleanup, so check them before you order & possibly get those as well. This is not something you really want to repeat. MWB has a hose kit precut to length(s). I use Volvo stuff, so I just used a length of their line (sold by the meter) & cut as needed. I use oetiker clamps - you can work these small ones with just cutting pliers (dykes), no need for the special tool here.

The originals won't have clamps at the base - they used a collar over the hose to prevent expansion - you have to cut that off

X19-0981.jpg


X19-0916.jpg


X19-0917.jpg
Cohline
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Thanks Hussein! Good photos.

Yep, I scored 2 meters of spec 7.5mm ID Cohline high pressure FI hose (#21340600) for about $11 and cut all the pieces to spec myself to save some significant $. And bought a bunch of quality 13-15mm FI hose clamps.

I know MWB advises using the slightly larger size due to reports of modern fuel eating older 7.5s, but I guess I'm prepared to find out for myself. The Cohline hose I got looks really good, so I'm reasonably confident it will be fine.

(When the car catches fire, I'll be sure to careen myself off a cliff for added effect. .. If ya gotta go..)

I've already changed all the fuel hoses except for the 4 small injector lines, and the 1 small rail union line, which I will be sure to do when I reinstall the injectors.

I did buy the injector seal/O-ring kit from MWB, so I should have that covered as well.

The possibility of housings being cracked or carbon coated hadn't occurred to me, so thanks for that tip especially. I guess I'll have to address that.

I do have a pretty good understanding of how the OE hose collars work, and how to remove them safely. Again, from doing homework and reading the archives. Pretty ingenious, the engineering there, how they don't hold the hose on, but rather just keep the lip of the hose down so the barbs can do the work to grip it. Pulling one of those that's properly seated straight off is pretty impossible. The Chinese finger cuffs of Italian engineering! 😂

I know I'm probably gonna get figuratively rapped in the mouth for this, but I'm kinda tempted to reuse them at the injector rail, since I'm using the OE 7.5mm ID size.

.. And if I'm gonna go up in flames anyway.. .. 🔥

I know Dan's for it, but most are against it.
 
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So after attempting to test and clean my injectors myself to no avail, I took them in for refurbishing.

For details on this, see my other thread: “Let take a vote..”:

Alright, let's take a VOTE.. (fuel injector cleaning)

No, this isn't political.. It's something far more contentious! Do I drop $150 ($30 x 5, including CSI) to have my injectors professionally cleaned with fancy ultra sonic hocus pocus..? Or do I just do this..? 🤣 (Pretty sure I already know what the consensus is gonna be, but it'll be fun...
xwebforums.com

While the injectors are in the shop and I have the rail off, I’m cleaning It up, removing the old hoses with the collars, and fitting all the new hoses.

I was considering reusing the collars, but since getting the hoses off did indeed prove quite notoriously laborious, I’m opting to use FI hose clamps for greater ease of future removal.

(I did start getting pretty good at removing them after a while, using a combination of a utility knife and pick hooks. But it was still a tedious PITA to get them off.)

I’m finding that getting the new hoses over the barbs is
quite a bear. I have to muscle and twist them about as hard as I can, and then I can only get them about 80% of the way on. And I’m having to use such force, that I’m worried I might start damaging the integrity of the new hoses.

So can I use some small amount of some form of lube on the barbs?

Intuitively I’m thinking I shouldn’t, for the obvious reasons.

A search of the wild west of information that is the interweb, turned up:

Do use a bit of:
- fresh motor oil
- WD40
- petroleum jelly (Vaseline) (there’s some debate on this one)

Don’t use:
- silicone (can foul O2 sensor)

Others:
- ATF
- dish soap
- carb cleaner
- starting fluid
- Earle's Hose Lube
- EZ Turn Fuel Lube
- glycerine

I'm also reading about heating the end of the hose up a bit to soften it: heat gun, hair dryer, hot water..

I’d love to hear from the Xperts on this one.

And while we’re on the subject, along the same lines -- what, if any, of the above lube should I use on the new injector seals and O-ring when I reinstall them?

Thanks gang!
 
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adream8 said:
So after attempting to test and clean my injectors myself to no avail, I took them in for refurbishing.

For details on this, see my other thread: “Let take a vote..”:

Alright, let's take a VOTE.. (fuel injector cleaning)

No, this isn't political.. It's something far more contentious! Do I drop $150 ($30 x 5, including CSI) to have my injectors professionally cleaned with fancy ultra sonic hocus pocus..? Or do I just do this..? 🤣 (Pretty sure I already know what the consensus is gonna be, but it'll be fun...
xwebforums.com

While the injectors are in the shop and I have the rail off, I’m cleaning It up, removing the old hoses with the collars, and fitting all the new hoses.

I was considering reusing the collars, but since getting the hoses off did indeed prove quite notoriously laborious, I’m opting to use FI hose clamps for greater ease of future removal.

(I did start getting pretty good at removing them after a while, using a combination of a utility knife and pick hooks. But it was still a tedious PITA to get them off.)

I’m finding that getting the new hoses over the barbs is
quite a bear. I have to muscle and twist them about as hard as I can, and then I can only get them about 80% of the way on. And I’m having to use such force, that I’m worried I might start damaging the integrity of the new hoses.

So can I use some small amount of some form of lube on the barbs?

Intuitively I’m thinking I shouldn’t, for the obvious reasons.

A search of the wild west of information that is the interweb, turned up:

Do use a bit of:
- fresh motor oil
- WD40
- petroleum jelly (Vaseline) (there’s some debate on this one)

Don’t use:
- silicone (can foul O2 sensor)

Others:
- ATF
- dish soap
- carb cleaner
- starting fluid
- Earle's Hose Lube
- EZ Turn Fuel Lube
- glycerine

I'm also reading about heating the end of the hose up a bit to soften it: heat gun, hair dryer, hot water..

I’d love to hear from the Xperts on this one.

And while we’re on the subject, along the same lines -- what, if any, of the above lube should I use on the new injector seals and O-ring when I reinstall them?

Thanks gang!
Click to expand...
I did this wrestling a couple of months ago and reused the collars. I used silicone spray and got the hoses all way in. No heat was needed. Grease would also work (specially on injectors) but don't use any mineral based types. They will destroy and reshape rubber and O-rings. BTW, don't forget to replace the hose between the two fuel rails as well.
 
Just heard from the injector shop -- good news -- all injectors working. 🙌

Supposed to get a detailed report on them once they're ready later today.
 
Bjorn Nilson said:
Just like the Frank Zappa song "Keep it greasy"...so it's ... going in easy.:D
But no mineral type grease. Dishwashing liquid is probably not a bad idea.
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Well.. I have been known to heed the sage wisdom of Frank Zappa.

I get the ‘no mineral lube’ bit, but I also keep reading that silicone-based stuff shouldn’t be used either, due to the possibility of fouling the oxygen sensor.

Though a few people here I’ve said that that use it anyway, because a little bit won’t hurt it.

But I’m wondering, why chance it, if something else can be used?
 
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I like using heat on fuel lines from a heat gun or hair drier. It temporarily softens the rubber so that it will conform more closely to the barbs and hopefully make a tighter seal. Of course, when the engine is running with an exhaust manifold an inch away that fuel line gets way hotter than one might think!
 
Alright! The car is running! .. And it's running quite well!

See my post here about the results of the professional injector refurbish:

Alright, let's take a VOTE.. (fuel injector cleaning)

Please chime in on using a bit of lubricant on the barbs to more easily seat the new fuel hoses, as well as opinions on using lube on the injector seals. Please see this post on my other thread, “Help me resurrect my 86 X”, for elaboration...
xwebforums.com

Thanks to all who chimed in! 🙏

Have some more issues to deal with now, which I will post about separately.

But she's alive! 🙌
 
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