Horizontal rear struts..anybody ever tried?

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User1

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<TABLE cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD colSpan=2><TABLE width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-TOP: 4px" vAlign=top colSpan=2>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Horizontal rear struts..anybody ever tried?<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]August 17 2001 at 2:32 PM[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript> <!-- var n54_em; n54_em = ""; n54_em = n54_em + "k";n54_em = n54_em + "1";n54_em = n54_em + "0";n54_em = n54_em + "t";n54_em = n54_em + "2";n54_em = n54_em + "0";n54_em = n54_em + "t";n54_em = n54_em + "5";n54_em = n54_em + "0";n54_em = n54_em + "0";n54_em = n54_em + "@";n54_em = n54_em + "w";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "b";n54_em = n54_em + "t";n54_em = n54_em + "v";n54_em = n54_em + ".";n54_em = n54_em + "n";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "t"; document.write("Denis"); // --> </SCRIPT>Denis <NOSCRIPT> Denis </NOSCRIPT> [/FONT]</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=bottom colSpan=3><HR></TD></TR><TR><TD colSpan=3>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->In an attempt to get more rear wheel clearance, has anyone ever attempted to install the rear struts horizontally, maybe using some kind of bracket off of the hub to free up space in the rear well. Don't some formula-type cars use this arrangement?<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

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[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Author[/FONT]</TD><TD>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Reply[/FONT]</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript> <!-- var n54_em; n54_em = ""; n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + "n";n54_em = n54_em + "d";n54_em = n54_em + "r";n54_em = n54_em + "m";n54_em = n54_em + "1";n54_em = n54_em + "1";n54_em = n54_em + "7";n54_em = n54_em + "@";n54_em = n54_em + "c";n54_em = n54_em + "s";n54_em = n54_em + ".";n54_em = n54_em + "c";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + "m"; document.write("Eric Armstrong"); // --> </SCRIPT>Eric Armstrong <NOSCRIPT> Eric Armstrong </NOSCRIPT>[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Good Question!<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]August 17 2001, 7:56 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Actually, at the bible creek hillclimb, I was looking at a rear suspension from a formula vee, single shock that connected to both sides.

The fabrication that this would take might outweigh the benifits though.

I guess the real question is why are you looking to do something other than what already exists? Maybe with some "special" improvements, it might be all that you want.

Eric Armstrong
74 X
77 128 Rally<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

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[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]August 18 2001, 1:11 AM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 30px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Single seaters (forumla vee included) tend to use push-rod levers to actuate highly compact adjustable dampers. As a word of warning I'd like to point out that these vary enormously in cost from a few hundred $ to a few 10,000s$ (trust me I investigated this not so long ago).

The reason you tend to see it on single seaters and no where else is primarily because of weight of the car. I'm not saying you wont see them elsewhere but the engineering becomes much more difficult for heavier vehicles.

Mostly it comes down to leverage and travel, correctly rated springs and dampers and the materials needed for the levers themselves. From memory top notch formula single seater cars tend to use a magnesium alloy but my knowledge on this subject is probably 10 years out of date. The suspension is moved inboard on these cars not just to reduce the moving weight of the suspension but also as a matter of packaging and keeping the centre fo gravity at the centre of the car as much as possible.

If all you wanted to do was create space in the wheel well you could try moving parts of the system inboard but retaining the direct application of force. Move the springs inboard loaded onto a platform on the wishbone (at the rear at least) with a new (adjustable) upper platform. The springs would have to be shorter and the spring rate increased in proportion to the distance moved from the hub (all about leverage again - the X1/9 has long wishbones at the rear which could allow for a lot of fine tuning in the location of springs...). The remaining damper no longer needs spring perches giving you a noticible increase in clearance.

The front of the car is more complex since you don't have the same rigid wishbone that you have at the rear, but then again you shouldn't really need as much clearance at the front (insanely wide wheels at the front is not going to help anything except to grow the muscles in your arms and slow the car down).

The last idea is to reverse the mounting of the dampers (ie turn them upside down). This only makes a marginal difference to the clearance, but does improve the sprung-unsprung weight ratio by moving the heavier reservoir to the fixed section and the relatively light-weight plunger to the mobile position. Alternatively you could pay a small (cough) fortune and buy some custom made, dual adjustable dampers with remote reservoirs, but we're back into the seriously expensive kit again......

Julian
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[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]August 18 2001, 7:11 AM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->I am not sure why you are wanting to gain more clearance inboard of the wheel. You can already fit very deep wheels on the rear of the car. Any deeper and you will run into many more problems than the strut. The wheel will hit the rear toe link on the rear upright long before it hits the strut. In order to gain any additional rear clearance you would have to re-design and fabricate new rear uprights and rear a-arms.

In order to accomodate a pushrod suspension design, you would have to add an upper a-arm and redesign the entire rear chassis section to accomodate the relocation of the shock/spring and the re-directed load from the suspension.

The front would actually be easier to do because you would not have to work around the driveline.

Steve
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