Interested in X1/9 - Few Questions

hcaulfield57

New Member
Hi all,

For a while I've been interested in X1/9 ownership. I've not had room until recently for another car. I had a few questions, which I hope have not been answered ad nausem, but they're sort of individual questions, so who knows.

1. Are there any particular years to avoid? I've heard the carbureted 1500s (79'-80') are problematic and the fuel-injected variants are better. My understanding is earlier cars are lighter, and I'd like a lighter car with less mechanical complexity, but I understand there aren't a ton of these around.

2. Are the cars too heavy and slow to have fun with? Through google, I've heard very little negatives about the X1/9 that aren't rust-related - but I thought I'd ask if only to spark conversation. Different people have different thoughts on what's considered "slow" or "fast". My first "fun" car was a 91' Nissan 300ZX Twin-Turbo with every bolt-on imaginable. That car was fast, but too fast to honestly have fun with in my opinion. I currently own an 83' RX-7 (100 hp / ~2400 lbs) and a 93' Civic (102 / ~2200 lbs). I like small tossable cars and I feel both have more horsepower than I can safely use on the street to be honest.

3. Has the handling aged well? Online everyone seems to go on and on about how good the handling is, but I don't know if that's rose-tinted glasses. My RX-7 for instance was remembered as a good handling car, but the steering is so vague it's scary to drive.

4. What do people do with regards to tires? I personally don't like the look of 15" wheels on these cars from pictures I've seen (looks too gangsta/ballerish in my eyes), but as all owners of vintage cars know there are pretty much zero performance oriented 13"/14" tires out there. Can good handling be achieved on what 13" tires are available today?

I would probably just want the car as something to work on, go on an occasional mountain drive or autocross with. Thanks!
 
1. X1/9 people seem to like the original '74 more than other years, since it was the one sold in the US most like the European version. If you like the small bumper look on the X1/9, any year can be backdated with aftermarket bumper kits. If local laws permit, '78-80 carby cars can be desmogged and carbureted with earlier model carbs to regain a little power lost to the late carby emission controls. FI cars have the advantage of having a lot of other Bosch stuff on the car (elec ignition, alternator, LJet, etc) so in theory are more reliable. But this is a Gen1 fuel injection system so don't think it's going to be like your Mom's 2018 Camry.

2. The X is the embodiment of that old saying "It's more fun to drive a slow car fast than a fast car slow." It's almost impossible to get into "trouble" with a stock X.

3. By raw performance numbers, just about any economy car in today's showrooms is going to generate equal or better skidpad and cornering numbers than a 30 year old X, but it's all about what it feels like---the car pivots around you, the driver--it's a unique experience. You DO need to treat yourself to the delights of an affordable mid-engine Italian sports car. The car rides better than you would expect and leans more than you would think, but there is nothing between your senses and the road--no power brakes or steering, no traction control or ABS. No automatic trans.

4. Depending upon year, the car would have come with 145/80-13 ('74-'78), 165/70-13 ('79-'82-ish) or 185/60-13 ('83-ish). From US sources, the former two are still somewhat available but the latter size really only has one choice, Achillies 122. Technically there is another option Federal SS595 but the quality control on them is crap.

As far as buying advice, the conventional wisdom is buy the best car your budget allows, and within that framework, buy a car that is weak in the area in which you are strong. IOW, if you are a body & paint kind of guy but not a mechanical guy, buy the car where the mechanicals are better but the body needs work....and vice versa. Exxies rusted no more and no less than their contemporaries, and as with every car ever built, X1/9s have common rust areas as well as common mechanical issues.

Some exxies in nice condition recently passed thru eBay and Bring-a-Trailer and appeared to have sold in the $8,000-10,000 range. But old and new XWeb members are still occasionally stumbling upon garage finds and local cars that are more work but much less money. Some long-time members have recently given up their cars due to health reasons, and I expect that regrettably that will continue as time marches on. You'll find them in the FS&W section.

We have excellent, experienced vendors, and the XWeb community is the best one on the internet by a mile.
 
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The X1/9 is THE most fun car I have ever driven.....no, not the fastest, but the most fun. I like the handling & just have 13" wheels & tires. Our 79 will be getting a header and a "cold air intake to help the power a bit. We are partial to the fuel injected cars. The system is very simple, but it works well. Our 81 passed the Colorado emissions with ease. We are putting an 82 fuel injected engine into our 79 and expect it to do well also. I think that the Bosch F.I. may have been ahead of it's time, compared to American cars of the same period. If you live on the front range, the canyons are fun to drive. You also get more days to drive with the top off than most places. If you like to work on your own stuff, the X is a great choice. There aren't many people around that know these cars, so you need to. I got hooked on them 30+ years ago and haven't changed my mind. I also infected my wife with the sickness. Even our dog loves riding in it with the top off. It would be nice to see another X on the roads in Colorado. I think that we have the only one (the 79 is in process) around in the northern part of the state. If you want an early X, and are looking for a real project, there was a very early one in a local junk yard that looked fairly complete. The yard owner would not sell parts off of it, but would sell it complete. I would be willing to go check it out if you are interested.
 
If your fave is the 83 RX and the 91 Civic then you'll be comfortable with the performance envelope on the X. One thing of note is that the early Fiats from this generation of cars had sometimes immense amount of body roll during cornering. Just go with it. The body roll for most cars from the 70's and early 80's was comparable. The lean is something that you can work out of the car with sway bars and bushings, IF you want to. The handling is very good for a car of its era as the rack and pinion connection to the steering is very short and direct, and the brakes, while they take a bit to get used to (not having any assist) are capable and likely won't fail to meet expectations, once you get used to the feel.

The X is a comfortable and reasonably spacious pocket sports car. As delivered, it is NOT a drag car or a top speed car. It is, however, extremely fun to autocross, and never fails to be competitive in it's class, whether stock or modified. Also, because of the Targa top, and the view out of the car, driving it on a twisty road becomes an enjoyable experience at ANY speed.

The key, IMHO, is that you should find the best maintained car you can fit within your budget. Because the X was inexpensive to start with, and is now in the 3-decade old category, many of them tended to get neglected. Proper fluid changes for the coolant, brakes, and clutch are paramount. TIMING BELT is critical! pre-FI engines were 'interference' engines, so if the timing belt breaks, catastrophic failure WILL occur. If the car is maintained well, the timing belt will have been changed every 30k miles or so.

Finally, unlike the RX and the Civic, if your X is in reasonable shape, it will be one of the most commented-on cars you will own. Adults, teens, and small children will point and ask questions and admire the style and packaging. It's similar to taking a Pug to a car show, where everyone just has to pet it because it is so cute.
 
Welcome to the forum. I see your location is "CO", if that is Colorado, we have members with excellent cars, possibly near you. Most X guys are enthusiastic about sharing the passion, and if you asked nice, could probably drive someones car to get a feel for how you like it.

I think the fact that the X has a lot of "repeat customers" speaks highly of it. I am one of them. I bought an 86 new, drove it for 15 or 20 year, then turned it into a race car. Eventually racing became a money drain and the car kind of got mothballed (still have it though). What did not get mothballed was the passion for the car and its unique handling experience. In about 2012 I was looking for a new (or new to me) car, and of all the cars I've owned, none of them ever spoke to me the way an X did.

So I found an 87 at a fair price and had it shipped from Oregon. Drove it and improved it for a year or two, then sprung for a Midwest Bayless K20 conversion. I will never give up that car.

Once you own and drive one, you can sell yours, but chances are excellent you will be back.

Pete
 
As a life long X1/9 owner I'll take a swing at your questions:

1) no. Forget the year and buy the best car you can find. Carbed '79 and '80s are not a big deal but the reliability and extra power of an FI car is an improvement. If you wanted to take on the project, the Bosch L-Jet FI system from the FI cars can be retrofitted to any of the earlier cars including the 1300s. Or you can fit a dual carb setup to any of the carbed models for some additional performance.

2) The cars are light by modern standards but heavy for their contemporaries and the power to weight ratio is low. Consequently they are slow by modern standards. As already noted, they are way more fun to drive than you might think. If you taste is for cars that are fast in a straight line the X is not the car for you. If you want a car that fully engages the driver on a twisty road, its heaven. The stock cars handle well but have a lot of body roll by modern standards. Remember, this is a '70's era car. Watch any youtube video of car magazine testing from that period and you will see that the amount of body roll is normal. However, its an easy thing to upgrade springs and add a front swaybar to flatten out the chassis and improve the driving experience.

3) I know these chassis well and have considerable experience racing them and other cars. My opinion is the X1/9's chassis is one of the best by any standard. The car can be made to work as well as many modern supercars. No, I'm not kidding. Just depends on how far you want to go with it. Skilled drivers love the X1/9 because they can get so much more out of it. If you are used to the 1st gen RX7 and civic, and think they are fun and tossable, the X1/9 will be a revelation. The RX7 chassis is crude by comparison. The X1/9 is a true thoroughbred. A mildly tuned (springs and bars) X1/9 makes a great mountain road car and an even better autocrosser.

4) there are tire options out there. I think there is a thread here somewhere on the current options.
 
Original tires on 74 thru 78 were 145/80/R13. In 1979 they went to 165/70/R13, 185/60/R13 were later. Some tire companies list small tires on web sites but they seem to be unavailable in US. Vredestein list Quatrac5 in 165/70/R13 and 175/65/R13 on their web site but I don't know if they actually sell this size in the US.
 
Original tires on 74 thru 78 were 145/80/R13. In 1979 they went to 165/70/R13, 185/60/R13 were later. Some tire companies list small tires on web sites but they seem to be unavailable in US. Vredestein list Quatrac5 in 165/70/R13 and 175/65/R13 on their web site but I don't know if they actually sell this size in the US.
I updated my post to incorporate your tire info..Thx!
 
Thanks for all the responses everyone! Seems like a very friendly and informative forum.

I do like the looks of the 74'/Euro-bumpers, so I would definitely back-date whatever car I purchased to them. I don't find the rubber bumpers on the later cars as offensive as the ladder-style bumpers however. The concept of driving a slow car fast is one that I fully sympathize with, so seems like I would like the X1/9. I was unable to "jive" with my 300ZX because it was only really fun in a straight line - and at much over the posted speed-limit. I like to drive safe, and it didn't mesh with my driving style.

I probably should have asked if there is any reason to prefer a 1500 over a 1300 (or vice-versa). I understand some 1500s have fuel-injection and have more torque and a 5-speed transmission. My understanding is that 1300s are revvier due to the shorter stroke (although both motors have a super-short stroke). I don't mind revving an engine to get performance out of it and I've only driven smaller-engined cars for awhile now.

I do all my own work on my cars, so I'm not too worried about that. From my research it seems the brake master / clutch master cylinders are the only annoying thing to service on these cars. I think my ideal car would be a running project, I wouldn't expect it to be perfect body or interior-wise, but I would like to avoid a car with structural rust. I don't know how to weld (although I may have to learn), so that is my only weak-point. I would expect to go through the whole suspension to make sure the car was safe to drive. I don't mind spending a bit more for a nice car, but the ones on Bring-A-Trailer seem too nice and too far beyond what I want to spend.

@7982X: Thanks for the offer, I suppose that depends, I'm not really looking for a rust-bucket - that's way beyond my skill level at the moment.
 
There's really no wrong choice, when buying an X1/9. Just find the cleanest/rust free example you can, and enjoy from there. The rest is all personal taste. FI guys, swear by FI, Carb guys swear by carbs, 1300 to 1300 and 1500 to 1500. I've owned all variants. I like them all for different reasons. For me personally; I prefer the '79-80 cars, as they offer the best mix of all the features I enjoy. I'm also a carb guy. I speak Bosch Jetronic and CIS very well as I'm also into older VWs. I've never had a carburetor leave me stranded or idle erratically, or simply not work for any number of reasons, unlike the Bosch stuff. But I digress. As for the cars having enough power to have fun? Yeah they do. If you like small, slow, old cars. I've set my car up where it runs quite nicely and for an X1/9 pulls and goes very well. If you plan to keep the car 100% original and not modify it, I'd suggest the later FI Bertone cars. If you plan to modify and beat on the cars a little; choose as you wish, and enjoy.
 
I have owned and modified multiple examples of both the 1300 and 1500 cars. There are plenty of reasons to like both. I like the 1300 chassis and interiors as they are simple and have the classic '70s look. 1500 interiors are not as roomy but are functionally better otherwise.

As for engines, 1300s are great fun. Well tuned they can make adequate power and are quite inspiring to rev. 1500s will always make more power on similar mods.

I have had both carb and FI cars and both stock and aftermarket. My 1300 '74 had dual 40 DCNFs and pulled pretty hard from 6500 to 8500 rpm. My '80 model is equipped with a programmable aftermarket system. Its easier to live with than the big carbs and gives nothing up in the HP/torque department.
 
Thanks all for the responses! Aside from this forum and Craigslist are there any other good locations to search for a car that I'm not thinking of?
 
That brown 1980 with the custom parts was at the 2016 MWB open House with Ohio plates. Another migratory X. :)
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Reply by *

"hcaulfield57, Hi all,

For a while I've been interested in X1/9 ownership. I've not had room until recently for another car. I had a few questions, which I hope have not been answered ad nausem, but they're sort of individual questions, so who knows.

1. Are there any particular years to avoid? I've heard the carbureted 1500s (79'-80') are problematic and the fuel-injected variants are better. My understanding is earlier cars are lighter, and I'd like a lighter car with less mechanical complexity, but I understand there aren't a ton of these around.

*Not really they are more similar than different. There were changes to the body structure as production progressed, but essentially they are far more similar than different with surprising interchangeability over it's production life. Corrosion protection improved significantly over it's production life. Early bodies had minimal corrosion-rust protection consideration similar to nearly every production car from that era. Later production bodies got far better corrosion-rust protection no different than similar cars of that later era. Know Bertone built many, many low production specials for many car brands and applied what was needed to meet the specifications for a given brand's limited production offering.

*Do get the best possible chassis-body if possible. There are fewer and fewer good examples available today as the vast majority have been crunched for items like clutch died, brakes died, engine failure (1300cc typical, mostly fixed in the 1500cc) due to timing belt neglect, slight surface rust, dead reverse gear, dead third gear synchro and ....

2. Are the cars too heavy and slow to have fun with? Through google, I've heard very little negatives about the X1/9 that aren't rust-related - but I thought I'd ask if only to spark conversation. Different people have different thoughts on what's considered "slow" or "fast". My first "fun" car was a 91' Nissan 300ZX Twin-Turbo with every bolt-on imaginable. That car was fast, but too fast to honestly have fun with in my opinion. I currently own an 83' RX-7 (100 hp / ~2400 lbs) and a 93' Civic (102 / ~2200 lbs). I like small tossable cars and I feel both have more horsepower than I can safely use on the street to be honest.

*Slow ... depends. Try driving a 1300cc USA spec exxe at full throttle (Pedal all the way down, not allowed to let off at all) for one hour or more. What moto folks tend to confuse is straight line acceleration as being "fast" and not what the chassis is capable of. Acceleration is the easiest aspect of moto vehicle performance for most to access, chassis behavior and dynamics is far more difficult as this requires a level of driving skill and sensitivity to what and how the chassis and power train is behaving.

3. Has the handling aged well? Online everyone seems to go on and on about how good the handling is, but I don't know if that's rose-tinted glasses. My RX-7 for instance was remembered as a good handling car, but the steering is so vague it's scary to drive.

*The exxe remains one of the very best chassis-suspension put into a small mid-engine car. This is the deep dark lesser known secret designed into every exe produced. The list of chassis designers and world class race car drivers who admired the exxe is long and brow lifting. To get the best out of the exe chassis, driver-owner must know well what their goals are as the chassis-suspension can be set up in many ways... and there is NO ideal set up for every driver need and road condition. What works extremely well on a curvy bumpy road is not going to do well on a smooth road course track. When and if the exe is properly set up, the steering wheel needs to be treated like a micometer, the chassis goes where your eye is looking with direction of forward motion easy to modulate with power and brakes. Secondary trade off is ride quality. As delivered, the chassis fits bumpy curvy roads from years gone by. As delivered the ride quality is excellent to very good (only if the chassis-suspension is as new OEM, rare today) over bumps with a trade off of body roll.

*Chassis-suspension is designed by the same guy as the Lancia Stratos. These two cars share a LOT more than most would ever know or believe.
This article written years ago can add some more info and perspective on the exxe.
https://www.hemmings.com/magazine/hsx/2011/08/X-Squared---1979-Fiat-X1-9/3701641.html

*Know most exxes today on the market have wore out suspensions in every way possible with improper dampers, aftermarket springs that can be questionable. Adding to this problem, lack of owner interest in spending the $ required to result in a proper suspension-chassis. Know cost involved to make any chassis proper runs in four figures of $ which often exceeds the market value of an exxe. This is why proper suspensions and chassis on an exxe is rare.

4. What do people do with regards to tires? I personally don't like the look of 15" wheels on these cars from pictures I've seen (looks too gangsta/ballerish in my eyes), but as all owners of vintage cars know there are pretty much zero performance oriented 13"/14" tires out there. Can good handling be achieved on what 13" tires are available today?

*Good selection of 13" R-compound track tires, Very Poor selection of 13" performance street tires. The one OK 14" performance street tire Yoko S-drive 100 in 185-55-14 is gone from the US market. This mostly means 195-50-15 street performance tires becomes the only option. This is sort of OK as any larger wheel-tire results in too big a wheel diameter which causes a host of other problems.

*Know a bigger-wider tire alone does not produce more mechanical grip, this can produce a host of mind bending problems and significantly reduced mechanical grip and chassis-suspension performance.

I would probably just want the car as something to work on, go on an occasional mountain drive or autocross with. Thanks!

*There is a rich archive of information on the exxe on Xweb. Search as needed.


Bernice
 
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