Steve Hoelscher
True Classic
Uno Turbo.
interesting x-1/9 engine swap engine
- Thread starter Kevin B (Asheville NC)
- Start date
Uno Turbo.
Steve,
Your are probably right, as usual, but I was thinking a 28HP Diesel Cat engine would pull hard.
kmead
Old enough to know better
The crypt keeper isn’t doing a very good job today...
Like all things there are a lot of variables. Minimize the engine bay changes or change things about the engine.
With an alternative intake and injection system the B series Honda engines could likely be installed with only changes to the mounts and not effect the rest of the car. A 1300-1600 Suzuki G13b-G16 could likely be installed with even fewer changes, I am sure there are some Mitsubishi engines that could also fit this bill along with some Nissan and Toyota engines.
The cost of minor changes to the engine bay pale in comparison to the other changes needed like new axles and so on.
Like all things there are a lot of variables. Minimize the engine bay changes or change things about the engine.
With an alternative intake and injection system the B series Honda engines could likely be installed with only changes to the mounts and not effect the rest of the car. A 1300-1600 Suzuki G13b-G16 could likely be installed with even fewer changes, I am sure there are some Mitsubishi engines that could also fit this bill along with some Nissan and Toyota engines.
The cost of minor changes to the engine bay pale in comparison to the other changes needed like new axles and so on.
Bjorn Nilson
True Classic
Fiat Uno Turbo Mk1 (1.3l) and Mk2 (1.4l) requires no mods in the bay. They are easy to tune if you want serious power. Those engines are very close to the 1.5l. -Flywheel, clutch, starter and gearbox from X1/9 fit directly.
Dr.Jeff
True Classic
If the question asked by @JorgeFiat is what's the best "bang for the buck" swap, then I'd say it depends on what is available to you there in Spain. I agree with @Bjorn Nilson the Fiat Uno Turbo is likely the easiest route, but we don't have that option here in America (no idea if you do in Spain). Therefore here the best option (in my opinion) is what @kmead said with a "B" series Honda. But I also don't know what their availability is there either. Again, I'm saying these are the most improvement for the money spent - not the outright most powerful or "best" conversions in other terms. Other factors for your particular goals will come into play as well. Regardless, I'm of the belief you are best off buying a complete running donor car with whatever drivetrain you prefer. That way you know the actual condition of everything (with no costly surprises), you will get all of the little bits and pieces you end up needing in the process, and it is usually the most economical way to get a drivetrain (i.e. in a wrecked car).
I missed this whole thread in the past so today I just read through it for the first time. We've discussed the bike engine topic many times since this thread, so I'll leave that alone. But the other item discussed here are various VW engine swap options. We haven't really talked too much about that concept as far as I recall. I am also a big fan old VW's and currently have a couple builds going on, plus some spare components laying around (including engines and transaxles). I gave the 'VW engine/trans in a X' idea some thought in the past, but ended up discounting it. As much as I like their powertrains, in my opinion they are too heavy, too bulky, and won't really give as much performance as some other options. That's not to say it can't be done and there are certainly plenty of options in that lineup. Plus they are readily available at reasonable prices, with lots of affordable performance upgrades available. Add a turbo to a stock 8V and it will last forever while giving lots of performance. But you can say all of the same things about a Honda "B" engine and it will be smaller (easier to fit), lighter (greater overall car performance), and cost the same. So why? On the subject of VW options, like @kmead I'm not a real lover of the VW VR6 engine and it would be even larger, heavier, and more difficult to swap into a X. Likewise I'm not a fan of (any) diesels; too much maintenance and too costly to run for what they offer....although the big torque would be fun for huge smokey burnouts if you have a trans that can hold it.
Janis
True Classic
@JorgeFiat , as You have set Your location - Spain.
1.what is amount of money that You are ready to spend
2.how much job involved is too much
3.how much power at least are You looking at?
Uno turbos are becoming rare and expensive- so a little bit cheaper and powerfull would be engine from Punto GT 1.4 turbo.
Or the cheapest would be 1.6 DOHC from Stylo, Brava, Marea..
Look at this wiki page, all in the list are easy swaps. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiat_128_SOHC_engine
1.what is amount of money that You are ready to spend
2.how much job involved is too much
3.how much power at least are You looking at?
Uno turbos are becoming rare and expensive- so a little bit cheaper and powerfull would be engine from Punto GT 1.4 turbo.
Or the cheapest would be 1.6 DOHC from Stylo, Brava, Marea..
Look at this wiki page, all in the list are easy swaps. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiat_128_SOHC_engine
kmead
Old enough to know better
I have always thought the all aluminum EA211 VW engines used in the Polo (the twin cam in particular) would be a nice compromise of German stolidity and reasonable weight. They would be available in Spain
It is a modern engine so may be difficult to acquire engine management software to take advantage of it.
It is a modern engine so may be difficult to acquire engine management software to take advantage of it.
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Steve Hoelscher
True Classic
Steve,
Your are probably right, as usual, but I was thinking a 28HP Diesel Cat engine would pull hard.
View attachment 36156
If you were going to go diesel, a turbo Cummins BT4 can comfortably make 200 HP and 400 lbs/ft of torque. z
There are also an interesting array of Perkins 4 cylinders.
My Uno Turbo response was based on the ability to simply bolt the driveline in with virtually zero modifcations. With some simple tuning you can make 180HP.
The B18 swap might not require modifications to the engine bay but it would require a considerable amount of fabrication for mounts, linkages, axles, cooling system, etc...
gene cooley
Autocrosser
This may not be a "new" engine for GM but it's being brought into the mainstream production this year in several GM lines.
It's a 1.3L turbo triple, 154hp, 175 torque.
All aluminum, 4 valve, probably variable cams, direct injected.
Obviously like all newer engines computer controls are going to be complicated but there are ways around that.
Haven't seen one yet, don't know the dimensions or weight but it still looks interesting for future swaps.
It's a 1.3L turbo triple, 154hp, 175 torque.
All aluminum, 4 valve, probably variable cams, direct injected.
Obviously like all newer engines computer controls are going to be complicated but there are ways around that.
Haven't seen one yet, don't know the dimensions or weight but it still looks interesting for future swaps.
Dr.Jeff
True Classic
It's about time we got something practical. There have been several similar designs for ages in other parts of the world. I wonder if the GM unit is a original design of one of the others that's been around. Isn't GM in bed with some Chinese car makers? Maybe it is one of their engines. Ford also has a really cool one in some European Fords (quite different from US Ford). I rented a Fiesta for a couple weeks in Cypress with that engine and it truly amazed me. I'm sure they will soon offer it as an option here in their smaller US cars. And isn't the Smart a turbo 3-cyl? Although it's French made. But yes, anything along those lines would make a good swap in the X. Think about it, in stock form it is at least equal performance to a fully built X1/9 race engine, yet much lighter, more reliable, and offers better drivability. And I'm sure there will be performance upgrades offered for them....bump up the boost, bigger intercooler, reflash the ECU, and presto you have 225 HP and 275 lb torque. The aftermarket industry is not only very diverse, but also very competitive. So they jump at any opportunity to be the first to offer something new.
gene cooley
Autocrosser
Jeff, After the 2008 election GM was nationalized. The new owners (the government and the Union) started producing Buicks in China for sale here and in China. Not sure what is happening now or if that's what you are asking.
Bjorn Nilson
True Classic
I think an aftermarket ECU would help a lot. I assume the VW engine has Bosch standard sensors and triggers, and if not they are easy to replace. I noticed some Abarth 595 swaps where people kept the stock ECU that obviously complicated things. I don't understand why they didn't remove the stock harness and ECU that seems to contain a lot of none engine related rubbish. -Having an aftermarket ECU made for engine (and maybe gearbox) management only must be a better route.
Dr.Jeff
True Classic
I agree. Even for electronic trans there are programmable standalone aftermarket modules. I often wonder why they go to such extensive effort to try and convert the stock modules to work. Seems they spend at least as much time, money, and more frustration that way. And even then they seem limited on what they can do with the tune - mostly relying on a outside source to remotely give them something generic. But I suppose in some modern applications it might be more necessary than others, depending on the complexity of the stock systems.
One example I recall recently was a shop that installed a newer, bigger engine into an older Mercedes. They hired a Mercedes electrical specialist to remove and sort the wire harness and modules from the newer donor car to adapt for the install. After several days of working on it the specialist finally advised they scrap it all and buy a aftermarket ECU and start over with it. And he advised they use a full Motec system. That had to be a very expensive swap.
Bjorn Nilson
True Classic
Maybe not for this thread, but anyway...
I had a 2011 VW sirocco (6 speed manual) a couple of years ago and put an aftermarket tune from BSR on it . Got 308hp and 440Nm on it
. A good thing with BSR is their subscription wich makes it possible to move the tune to another car. - They just change the code to fit another VIN for a fee. Now I have it on my daily driver, a Mk6 Golf R with same engine as the Sirocco but with DSG. With BSR tune the torque is not very different from stock. Ive sent my complaints to BSR but they say they cannot do anything to the built-in torque restrictions in the DSG box. I am thinking of having the MaxxECU also on my Golf to be able to tune it the way I want to.
, although I would now consider throwing a snail onto that 24v VR 
Dr.Jeff
True Classic
I think the stock drivetrain could handle that level of power if it isn't abused. Depends on what you intend to do though. Big smokey burnouts, drag race starts, drifts, donuts, etc, won't work with this drivetrain regardless of the level of power.
bjwhite
True Classic
GM was never nationalized. They had Treasury loans (paid back) and Government stock buys that the government sold back in 2013.
Buicks have been manufactured in China starting in 1999. Not sure what you're talking about otherwise.
Thanks Dr.Jeff.
One more question: With a more powerful engine,is it advisable to change to a 5 speed transmission instead of the original 4 ?
Thanks JorgeFiat