K20 project off to a good start, volume 2

darwoodious said:
Congrats on the "completion" of your 5 year project. Looks great too of course.
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Yeah, it is a great feeling to finally wrap up all of the cleaning, polishing, fabricating, assembling, etc. There are a few tweaks here and there to fine tune it and I haven't charged the AC yet, but the good driving weather is ahead of us, so I plan to put some miles on it. It will be interesting to see how reliable it is and that it doesn't overheat (fingers crossed emoji)! Time to get a move on yours ;).
 
Now that is a transformation. Love the interior.

Another amazing X example. Need to get some killer pics.
 
Once the weather clears up, I want to take the car out for a long drive to see how it does. My biggest worry is overheating. My drives so far have gotten the engine up to temp which I can monitor with my laptop datalogging. The dash gauge eventually seems to get up to a little below half way once the thermostat opens, but haven't driven it long enough to see how it does over time. It's kind of a pain to keep glancing over at the laptop sitting on the passenger seat (as well as not really safe), so I downloaded the Kpro Mobile app on my phone. It connects to the Kpro in the ECU via Bluetooth and provides real time data on any of the sensors you want to monitor. I purchased a phone mount that clamps to the side dash vent so the phone is in a good position to view and use while driving. It is a good position for navigation, phone calls, etc. as well as music through the stereo as it connects to that via Bluetooth as well.
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Kpro mobile 01.JPG


The mobile app will also datalog as well as do a dashcam video with selected sensors in the lower part of the view. I'll give it a try soon.
 
I like that phone app. I didn't elect for the BT module with my in-ECU module - I will have to revisit that, being able to monitor the basic functions from the phone mounted as you have it makes much more sense. Glancing over at the laptop is a nightmare.

Mine runs 200º-210º (indicated in software, and matches gauge), but I have no heater core. T/stat is the K series spec 180º temp. Fan doesn't kick on until gauge reads over 200º, so I have to assume the coolant temp is dropping a fair bit before the Fiat fan thermoswitch hits its mark.
 
lookforjoe said:
I like that phone app. I didn't elect for the BT module with my in-ECU module - I will have to revisit that, being able to monitor the basic functions from the phone mounted as you have it makes much more sense. Glancing over at the laptop is a nightmare.

Mine runs 200º-210º (indicated in software, and matches gauge), but I have no heater core. T/stat is the K series spec 180º temp. Fan doesn't kick on until gauge reads over 200º, so I have to assume the coolant temp is dropping a fair bit before the Fiat fan thermoswitch hits its mark.
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I had a good drive today. Cruised for about half an hour on a mix of freeway and two lane country roads. Coolant temp per the K-Pro mobile app stabilized at 196 F and never went higher. Dash gauge settled in slightly below halfway. My gauge reads in Celsius, so the middle of the gauge reads 90 C. The car ran well. It accelerates like crazy! Haven’t explored the handling too much yet, but it feels very stable at speed and very planted in the corners. The combination of all new bushings, Koni coilovers and 15” rims sure makes a difference. :)
 
Not to mention the anti roll bars you have also installed.

Congrats on a successful foray into the real world with it :)
 
We had the hottest day of the year here so far, 85! Amazing, considering that the East Coast was getting snow yesterday. I went for a longer drive to see how the cooling system would handle the warmer weather. The engine coolant temp stabilized at 199F per the mobile app both on back roads, around town, and freeway at 80. The dash gauge was just below center. Once I got home, I just let the car idle in the garage and watched the temps. The engine temp got up to 206 and the dash gauge got to mid-dial and then the radiator fan kicked on. It ran for maybe 30 seconds, then shut off. The engine temp dropped to 203, then 201 for a while then slowly climbed back up to 206 when the fan came back on and the cycle repeated itself. I let it cycle like that 4-5 times with the same result. At this point, I am very satisfied that the cooling system is performing as hoped with no overheating issues. :D

When I was doing the cooling system design for this build, one thing that concerned me was the relatively small bore of the outlet hosing from K-Tuned that feeds the radiator, especially when comparing it to the bore of the cooling pipes.
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It seemed very restrictive and I had in the back of my mind that I have read comments about how restrictions in the cooling pipes can create overheating problems. I went with it because I assumed that K-Tuned has had a lot of experience with this engine so they must understand what the flow requirements of the cooling system need to be. Today's drive seemed to confirm no issues with using that outlet housing. I can only assume that the Honda water pump puts out a lot of flow, compared to the Fiat one.

I was thinking about Hussein's recent issue with the denting of his cooling pipes from his off road adventure. They were definitely compressed but it didn't look to be that severe. I doubt if they are smaller than the bore of his outlet housing so maybe nothing to worry about.
 
So, a little update on my exhaust journey. I had been playing with one of the exhaust inserts from Car Chemistry and had modified it to be able to insert it just downstream from my V clamp connection. I had secured it with a small bolt through the exhaust pipe. I felt it had made an improvement in the exhaust loudness, but after a couple of more drives to sort out some suspension issues, I noticed a rattling coming from the exhaust around 3,000 RPM. I assumed that the insert was causing the rattle, so I dropped the exhaust to take a look and found that the insert was no longer where it was supposed to be....:oops::mad:

I snaked a camera down the exhaust and found it laying in the catalytic converter where it had actually damaged some of the honeycomb. It also looked kind of melted! I tried to shake it back out, but it was not coming. I thought I could maybe get it with one of those pickup tools that have the little claw fingers on the end. So I tried to work it around the bend and through the flex coupling, but then one of claws snagged on the flex mesh. Now it wouldn't go further and I couldn't pull it back out either. Crap!!!!

At this point, I was max frustrated and didn't see much of a way out so I cut the exhaust between the cat and the coupler and hoped I would be able to weld it back together. I freed the claw of the tool and fished out the insert from the cat.
Exhaust insert revision 03.JPG

I was pretty amazed that it looked like that. I am not sure if it got deformed like that from the heat coming from the header or if it was a result of being next to the honeycomb of the cat. I don't think it could have gotten around the bend and through the flex coupler in it's original configuration, so I assume it happened before it let go. Either way, it was a disaster.

I was able to get the exhaust put back together although getting to the joint directly below the muffler was really hard to reach with the TiG torch. Not the prettiest weld but I got it done and back in. I still wanted to quiet down the exhaust so I took the remaining piece of the insert that I had cut off that had one ring on it. I tack welded a small cap that Car Chemistry says you can use to tone down the exhaust and then wrapped the insert with stainless steel wool from Car Chemistry. I was not about to put it where I tried it before, so I put it inside the tailpipe. I had also changed the exhaust tip to the same one that Hussein used, but rather than weld it on, I bolted it on with two Allen head stainless bolts. That way, I could remove it to get access to the insert if I wanted to take it out or change the steel wool as it degrades over time. I took it out for drive today and was quite happy with the new sound.
Exhaust insert revision 01.JPG
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My motto for this whole build project has been "Live and learn". Another self-inflected lesson in automotive artistry under my belt. ;)
 
I laughed at your final statement, not the frustration and effort of fixing it.

I wonder how much back pressure the stainless steel wool creates.
 
Impressive. Just goes to show how much force the exhaust flow displaces! On the plus side, isn't is great using all V-Band connections? Makes it so easy to drop the entire system. Depending on how hard you romp & sustain 7K + rpm's, that steel wool maybe create too much back pressure. The way you have it now, at least you can remove or reduce it as needed.
 
Ok, I’ll bite. How do you figure out if there is too much back pressure and if so, what is the potential consequences of that?
 
Rodger said:
Ok, I’ll bite. How do you figure out if there is too much back pressure and if so, what is the potential consequences of that?
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Hey Rodger - sorry, I wasn't implying I had a concrete knowledge of just what level of backpressure is OK & what will be excessive. If it is an issue in your case, you would experience it as a lack of performance up top - either the VTEC or VTC will be impacted, and the system will pull cam advance, etc., accordingly. Could even go completely flat. I think it will be obvious to you if that happens. If you don't drive it hard (avoiding winding it out), then it may be a non-issue.
 
lookforjoe said:
Hey Rodger - sorry, I wasn't implying I had a concrete knowledge of just what level of backpressure is OK & what will be excessive. If it is an issue in your case, you would experience it as a lack of performance up top - either the VTEC or VTC will be impacted, and the system will pull cam advance, etc., accordingly. Could even go completely flat. I think it will be obvious to you if that happens. If you don't drive it hard (avoiding winding it out), then it may be a non-issue.
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No problem. I did not take it as criticism. I really don't know what I should expect, so I appreciate all knowledge from those who know more about automotive performance than I do, which is a really large group. :) I don't tend to wind it out to the redline a lot, but it is fun to let it go from time to time. I will look for a flattening at high rpms. Eventually, I will take it to an expert to tune it and I am sure they will not like the steel wool. I just want to make sure I don't do something serious to the engine, like blow a head gasket or worse. But, I do much prefer the toned down exhaust note that it has right now. Just getting old.........
 
It won’t blow the head gasket, just impair performance as Hussein said at the top end. Either nothing, a little or as the extreme the engine will step back its cam advance etc in self preservation. Unlikely to be the extreme.
 
Really beautiful work. Driving video when you get a chance :)

I see you're in the PNW, do you still have the original running gear? In particular the transmission? I'm in the process of accumulating spares.
 
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