K20 project off to a good start

lookforjoe

True Classic
I had heard that was the case and started poking around to find it but could find nothing but cast iron at the same location where the 1300 has a port. I wish it did as I am suspicious that my port doubler banjo has a small leak where the fiber washers seal it.
The seal flat was covered with the aluminum slug, so it looked like an unfinished casting, until I dug at it with a pick tool

 

128kid

Courtney Waters
What my seat of the pants engineer hat told me is that since the sender body is clamped securely to the engine and is connected by a flex hose to the port, there should be minimal vibration impact on the connection. I could understand if it was screwed directly into the engine as then there is a lever arm on the connection caused by the weight of the sender.
Exactly what I was thinking. Back in the college days we had that type of failure on our Formula SAE car. The oil pressure sender was screwed into the block (1/8" NPT threads) and after a fair amount of run time the threads cracked and it started leaking. We relocated it, mounted with a P-clamp, and connected with a flex hose and didn't have any issues from then on. This was a 600cc motorcycle engine rigidly mounted to a tube frame chassis, so there was a ton of vibration. My 128 has a 1300 X1/9 block with a VDO oil press sender stuffed in the factory oil port. No issues.
 

128kid

Courtney Waters
Thanks for the info. I think for this, I’ll wait until I have mine test fitted & see if the original Sanden can be used in that location. The stock hoses would be more than long enough if I can re orient or repurpose them.
I was going through this on a project at work (radial ports would have put the fittings through the hood) and some Googling came up with this Sanden catalog, which had good info on the available head types and compatibility:

https://www.sanden.com/objects/Sanden Singapore SD7 Series Compressor Catalogue.pdf


Rodger, your A/C work looks great! Of all the fluid systems in a vehicle, it seems like the A/C stuff is the worst to route and you did it in an X1/9 with an oversized engine... awesome!
 
The seal flat was covered with the aluminum slug, so it looked like an unfinished casting, until I dug at it with a pick tool
I used a steel pick and if mine was aluminum it was the hardest aluminum I've run into. Sure wish it was drilled out.
 

lookforjoe

True Classic
Hey Rodger

Is there any way you can measure the offset of the carrier bearing bracket (where it attaches to block), to the center line of the axle? The new axle I bought won't fit the motor, the bracket is too deep. I'm just trying to confirm that the correct (RSX) bracket has approx 2" offset to axle centerline, not 2.5" which is what I received ...
 

Rodger

True Classic
I measured from the base of the bracket where it attaches to the block to the centerline of the axle. As near as I can figure it is about 43 mm or 1 11/16ths inch.
 

lookforjoe

True Classic
I measured from the base of the bracket where it attaches to the block to the centerline of the axle. As near as I can figure it is about 43 mm or 1 11/16ths inch.
Thank you, Rodger. That is closer to my rough measurement than what I received. Just wanted to make sure the offset of the axle/trans wasn't different with the RSX.
 

lookforjoe

True Classic
Wiring harness progress

I have been working on creating a custom wiring harness for the car as well for connecting the engine sensors and ECU to the instrument panel and to provide power for the ECU per Hondata’s KPro instructions.

I completed the harness to connect the K20 ECU and C101 engine connector to the car. It has five pigtails plus three relay sockets. One pigtail goes to the O2 sensor. I used some Fiat connectors to provide plug ins to the wiring harness for the backup lights, the fuel pump, and for switched and constant 12V plus the start signal. I bought an 8 pin Molex plug to provide all of the signals from the ECU and engine to the dashboard gauges.
Hey Rodger

Did you make a wiring schematic for this section of harness? Did you exend the wiring that normally feeds the EMS inside the spare wheel well for this?
 

Rodger

True Classic
Hey Rodger

Did you make a wiring schematic for this section of harness? Did you exend the wiring that normally feeds the EMS inside the spare wheel well for this?
Yes, I did. The harness in the photo started from the C101 connector that was part of the wiring harness of the donor car that I had purchased. I added all of the other connectors as needed. I ran the harness from the engine through the rear access panel and into the left rear wheel well where I mounted the ECU. There was really no room left in the spare tire well since I had added a subwoofer, plus the amplifier for it. Also, my access hole was much larger than the typical MWB install.

Here is the diagram that I made based off of the one that came from Hondata.
k20a wiring-custom Lawton.jpg
 

lookforjoe

True Classic
Many thanks Rodger! I'll cross check the ECU pinout against my ('05 Accord) version. I'm going to put mine pretty much where your amp is situated.
 

lookforjoe

True Classic
Progress report 3: final check on clearances


So Kris has cut out the partial panel between the engine bay and the exhaust compartment, and welded in additional bracing above the rear control arm mounts. Here is a picture looking up through the exhaust compartment.
Hey Rodger

Going through all your bay mod pics again :)

Anyway you can get the spec on the reinforcing channel they used to beef up the crossmember?
 

darwoodious

Darin Nelson
Rodger did as what was called for by MWB. You can do that and all good, or do what I did...

IMG_0429.JPG IMG_2817.JPG
This first photo shows what I did instead of the heavy stock: a somewhat thick 14G (0.0747") sheet welded across.

The MWB team recommends cutting out the entire lower area for exhaust or something. I agree but wanted to be able to transfer load from that lower crossmember to the upper crossmember, so I built this:
IMG_2066.jpg

Here's what it looks like all installed.
IMG_2075.jpg IMG_2076.jpg IMG_2080.jpg IMG_2079.jpg

Here's my (hillbilly) thinking... The primary reason to reinforce the rear crossmember with the K20 kit is that the subframe takes ALL the torque from the engine at the suspension points. Nice, but now you need to reinforce. The primary torque under full throttle will be to twist the powertrain "back" (that is clockwise when looking at the driver from the left side of the vehicle) to power the vehicle forward. As I've said before - imagine the X trying to "pop a wheelie", then you get it.

So all the force on the subframe, this the crossmember, is down. My goal was twofold: beef up the cross member lightly with nice tall/wide plates then look at how that transferred load to the rest of the chassis.

I am trying to make it strong but keep the extra weight as low as possible. No idea if I have succeeded, but I have to go with my gut. It's my money so I'm doing my build my way. Hope this helps. Keep posting what you're doing to your build Hussein. :)
 

Rodger

True Classic
Rodger did as what was called for by MWB. You can do that and all good, or do what I did...

View attachment 19173 View attachment 19174
This first photo shows what I did instead of the heavy stock: a somewhat thick 14G (0.0747") sheet welded across.

The MWB team recommends cutting out the entire lower area for exhaust or something. I agree but wanted to be able to transfer load from that lower crossmember to the upper crossmember, so I built this:
View attachment 19171

Here's what it looks like all installed.
View attachment 19172 View attachment 19168 View attachment 19169 View attachment 19170

Here's my (hillbilly) thinking... The primary reason to reinforce the rear crossmember with the K20 kit is that the subframe takes ALL the torque from the engine at the suspension points. Nice, but now you need to reinforce. The primary torque under full throttle will be to twist the powertrain "back" (that is clockwise when looking at the driver from the left side of the vehicle) to power the vehicle forward. As I've said before - imagine the X trying to "pop a wheelie", then you get it.

So all the force on the subframe, this the crossmember, is down. My goal was twofold: beef up the cross member lightly with nice tall/wide plates then look at how that transferred load to the rest of the chassis.

I am trying to make it strong but keep the extra weight as low as possible. No idea if I have succeeded, but I have to go with my gut. It's my money so I'm doing my build my way. Hope this helps. Keep posting what you're doing to your build Hussein. :)
This should certainly add to the rigidity of that area, but I can guarantee you would have an issue with the header coming through that opening and your welded in piece being in the way. That is if you were using the shorty headers that are available like I did. I am pretty sure you were going to build a custom header, so that should allow you to bring it back through the right side opening with no issues.
 

lookforjoe

True Classic
Somewhere I asked the specifics of the firewall insulation you chose, but I've been through every page of both threads & can't find that info. Can you provide it once more? :D

 
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Rodger

True Classic
Somewhere I asked the specifics of the firewall insulation you chose, but I've been through every page of both threads & can't find that info. Can you provide it once more? :D
Dynamite Hoodliner. Very sticky. Once it is on, it does not come off easily.
 

DSobota

Daily Driver
Gentlemen, New to the sight and following along with great interest. Started my own 76' Rest-Mod this Christmas. Currently working on the engine bay. Roger, Is Darin's idea with the rear cross member that big of an issue? I am at that point and was thinking along his same lines. BTW Love the detail of your work. x19001.jpg Thanks, D
 

Attachments

Rodger

True Classic
Welcome to the X group, D! Always nice to have more company in the resto-mod gang. As you may have gathered, this forum loves photos, so be sure to post some from time to time. You should create your own thread and give us some more info on your build and how you decided to get an X1/9.

As far as Darin's reinforcement ideas, I think they are all good and probably do contribute to body stiffness. As to whether they are a big issue, I don't think so, but who knows. The original X design was engineered to meet '70s era crash standards that were never implemented, so consequently it is already a pretty rigid structure, especially for a topless unibody. I'm not an engineer, but we have many in this group who could comment more on this topic. In this modern era of CAD programs used to design current vehicles, it is easy to see the effects of proposed structural changes on body stiffness, but with the seat-of-the-pants approach, it would be very hard to test the results. Since I did my swap using the MWB kit, I went with the recommendations from Matt Brannon, as he has done more of these swaps than anyone, and has extensive experience racing the X1/9. If anyone would be able to detect changes from the body modifications needed for the K20 swap, it should be him. My advice is to make your build what you want it to be and do the mods that make you feel good. Good luck with your build and make sure to share your progress! :)
 
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