Keys

Along the topic of offering feedback on vendors, I have a little update on the X1/9 keys and "Keys4Classics" site:

After a careful reading of the information pages on the site I was able to play with the locks and reveal the associated 'code' numbers needed to make keys for them [I'll do a little pictorial report on that later]. But I sent what I found along with a couple questions to "Stuart" (the name behind "Keys4Classics"). I received a prompt and very helpful reply along with a price quote. To get two of each key (2 door keys and 2 ignition keys) code cut, in choice of key styles (plain or with plastic heads) shipped, the total is $48. That is less than my discounted price with my long trusted locksmith. And my locksmith requests that I disassemble the locks to the same point needed to reveal the code numbers for "Keys4Classics", so no advantage there. Stuart expressed the turn around time (including shipping from Australia) can be 2 to 4 weeks (depending on shipping method chosen). Therefore that would be the disadvantage if you were stranded and needed the keys now. Otherwise it appears to be a great service. I have a couple of other pending project vehicles that also need keys so I will gather the required information for them and order everything at the same time. Therefore it might be a while before I can report back on the outcome.

Thanks again to the guys here that brought this web-site to my attention.

As for reporting experiences and opinions about vendors, I fully believe that any and all input should be made public (both positive and negative). First, you are only helping your fellow enthusiasts...let them make their own conclusions from there. Second, if a vendor wants to remain in business and specialize in this hobby then he needs to be made accountable for his services. If he sucks at it then he should not be there, period! The marketplace is a competitive one and they are profiting from our involvement in it. So they need to cater to our needs, or let someone else who will be in their place. I am a business man, have owned and operated several businesses over the years in the automotive and other industries. And I am speaking from experience in that position, as well as a consumer. If they can't handle a little heat for their shortcomings, along with a little praise for their excellence, then go get a job working for someone else. Believe me, if a vendor goes out of business, another one will step in to fill the need...it has already happened many times in the Fiat world. Therefore I believe this forum should support that position and encourage (not discourage) feedback specific to a vendor, and not be afraid of the vendors (as it seems to appear). Just my opinion.
 
If you have locks without any matching keys, new keys can be made from the locks' "key code" numbers (or just "code"). A lock-smith can do it by taking the locks to him, or you can have them cut over the internet with the site referenced by "Rocco" and "Paul" above...."Keys4Classics.com" (thanks again to them for that reference). Here is a little more about how to find the "key code" for your X's locks.

Regarding the door locks: Actually you don't even need to remove the latch/lock assembly from the door. But you will need to remove the door panel so you can see the back side of the lock. On the end of the lock cylinder (the round thing inside the pawl) you will find stamped a 4 digit number...this is the key cylinder's code number. From what I was told, on most years of X this number will begin with a "1". On later models ('88-'89 I believe) it will begin with a "3".
010.JPG


Regarding the ignition lock, it is much more involved: First you need to remove the ignition lock from the steering column locking assembly. This might be done with the column locking mechanism (security collar) left on the steering column...I'm not sure?? But I removed the entire column locking assembly by drilling a hole in the center of the two security bolts and using a "easy-out" (broken bolt remover) to extract those bolts (to be replaced with socket head bolts).
Fiat X19 ign lock.JPG

Note: This photo was found online (I did not take a picture like this of mine), and the chrome cover shown here is a little different than mine was. But I think it will serve to give the idea.

Then the whole ignition lock portion can be withdrawn from the housing; the contact switch, steering column locking lug, and key lock/cylinder mechanism can be removed as an assembly and do not need to be separated. In fact they only need to be pulled out far enough to access the following. On the face of the lock you can see the chrome cover or face plate that is visible when everything is still in the car.
040.JPG


Don't be fooled into thinking those numbers and/or writing on the face will get you new keys, that is not the code. To find the actual code you need to remove this chrome cover. It is held in place by 3 or 4 spots where the edge is crimped over the lip of the underlying cast part (around the sides of the face plate). I used a small screw driver to pry (or "prise" as our British friends would say) those crimps up. With them pulled up the chrome cover can be slipped off of the cast part that holds the lock cylinder. On the end of the underlying surface you will see the 5 digit alpha-numeric code stamped...this is the key code for the ignition cylinder. I was told on most years of X it will begin with the letter "A", and on later models ('88-'89) it can begin with "K, T, S, or H".
092.JPG


These code numbers can be sent to the referenced site to have new keys cut. See the site for more details.

As far as I know, assuming none of the lock cylinders have been replaced separately, all X's have one key that fits the door locks, glove box lid lock, and engine cover/rear trunk release levers' locks; and a second key that only fits the ignition cylinder. [Please correct this if anyone knows different].
It is also my understanding (to my great disappointment) that the ignition lock cannot be re-configured to use the same key as the other locks.

Hope this helps, and please let me know if I've left out anything (wrote this from my failing memory).
 
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Dr. Jeff,
You can remove the ignition switch without removing the entire assembly - if you have the key.

One way to get around the problem of not having a key to match the ignition switch (and the other locks) is to simply grind down all the (don't know the terminology) pins that the key engages. That way ANY Fiat (X1/9) ignition key will work. Not a good solution if the potential thief has a Fiat ignition key, and...wants to see if it will start the car. I think the odds of that are pretty slim so I have at least one car that uses a "universal" key.
 
Sorry Mike, I don't intend to challenge in any way but both things you said do not make sense.
First, the whole point to my post was that NO keys existed.
Second, in order to grind down the pins, you must first have the lock cylinder out of the lock assembly to get access to those pins; so even if you had a non-fitting Fiat key, you will still need to remove the lock.
However I cannot say with certainty that there is not some other way to gain access to the necessary portion of the ignition lock (to access the hidden code number) without removing the lock. There might be, even without the key. Perhaps if you know how to do it (without a key) please explain.
In my case I could not find clear directions how and where to find the code numbers so I ended up disassembling much more than was necessary. That is the reason I've posted the above explanation, to assist anyone else in doing it without unneeded work.
Again, I'm not saying you are wrong. I'm just not following your logic.
Thanks
 
Thanks for posting up the key code placement on cylinders. I knew about the door cylinders but didn't know about the ignition one.

Thanks!
 
Sorry for the confusion.

"Regarding the ignition lock, it is much more involved: First you need to remove the ignition lock from the steering column locking assembly. This might be done with the column locking mechanism (security collar) left on the steering column...I'm not sure?? "

The answer to your question is YES you can remove the locking mechanism with the security collar left on the steering column...if you have the key. So, in your case you can't do it with the column locking mechanism (security collar) left on the steering column - because you don't have the key.

Now once you take the ignition lock apart you could use any ignition key to operate the ignition switch, as long as you grind down the pins.
 
Great info here! I'm assuming all this is required if you also don't have the key codes written in the original vehicle documents? I'll have to look through mine - since it came from the origianl owner, I may have the codes written down, which again, I would assume match the codes stamped into the cylinder/lever. I have two of each key, but with 130+K usage, they have bent/twisted & have small stress cracks. I'd prefer not to wait until one snaps off in the lock to realize I should have ordered replacements...
 
If the codes are written down then you shouldn't have to disassemble anything. In one of my earlier posts above I noted the basic structure of the Fiat code numbers; this will help you to know which codes go to which keys (e.g. ignition vs rest of car), and if the numbers you find written are indeed key codes. This info is also on the Keys4Classics.com site.
 
Does keys4classics replies fast to emails?
Just copied ignition key by myself, locksmith refused to make a try from broken key.
 
rocco79/138 said:
Yep I got where you were going and Karl is right without factoring cut the keys will not slide into the others cylinders.
View attachment 4197
View attachment 4198
The door key has an extra channel and the channel widths are slightly different. I suppose with the right wear the key with the most channels might fit in both cylinders. But even if you could get the blanks to fit you would need to use the key one way on the ignition and the other way on the rest of the cylinders.
A locksmith that is good could probably make this happen for you. 35 years of using these keys make it familiar but even in 1981 it was an intuitive system.
Regards
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rocco79/138 said:
Different keys. Factory would be a small oval cased in rubber and an all metal key for the doors, glove box, and trunk handles. You can get close replicas from keys4classics.com. Correct size and shape but not embossed with Fiat.
View attachment 4193
They will not interchange.
Regards
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Recently when I was in Verona I simply walked into a locksmith and asked if they had key blanks for keys similar to mine. The owner walked to the back of the shop and came back with an old cardboard box full of blanks. Note though that there are two sizes of the ones with small oval cased in rubber. Needless to say, I have a lifetime supply now... ;)
 
mkmini said:
Does keys4classics replies fast to emails?
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Typically yes, however he is a "one man" business so things could get busy. I believe he also attends various shows, etc to offer his service. Not to mention weekends off and time zone differences to Australia. So at times his replies were delayed. But he was always very helpful and offered great support.

Dom, on the "Keys4Classics" web site there are terrific pictures and descriptions of the key size options for lots of various models (including the X1/9 with listings for early and late models, although you obviously have them all now). I'll admit the site is a little unclear at first; the home page is not as well organized as it could be. But once you get going it has lots of information to offer.
 
rocco79/138 said:
You have to work it a bit but you can actually lock your keys in your car. If you want to require an unlock service you will first have to defeat the aux rear trunk cable then you just lock up your car with the rear trunk popped and toss your keys in the rear trunk and voila! Call a locksmith...
Being a sailor I have a highly developed capability of messing things up... a gift some might call it. :)
Regards
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I have done that!!! Yes, you can lock your keys in the X.
 
My key is the one with the rubber. Didnt remember when I bought one a few years ago it being h so complicated. It is the ignition key and it wasn't from a locksmith I don't believe. Car made in 75 and put out in 76. So where was it you said you purchase hff ased it.
 
If you have a key, many locksmiths still have blanks. Go to one that has a large pegboard covered with dust and it is likely they will have several patterns of Fiat keys. Newer lock companies don’t have old stock on hand.

Getting the rubber covered keys is a fairly rare in the US.
 
kmead said:
Newer lock companies don’t have old stock on hand. Getting the rubber covered keys is a fairly rare in the US.
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Agree with Karl. Even if you have a key to copy, then you definitely need to find a real locksmith, not the typical hardware store key makers. And preferably a old one that has been doing locks since the 70's. But even they may not have the rubber covered key blanks anymore.

However I understood that Kathryn does not have an existing key and needs to get it "code cut". Again, many old school locksmiths can code cut one for you (but as mentioned, not likely with the rubber cover). When I looked into it I realized those sort of locksmiths were few and far between...and expensive. In my case it was easier and less costly to have it done by the online guy (Keys4Classics), and he did great work - keys work perfectly. And he has the rubber covered blanks if that's what you prefer. I got a set of both kinds from him, rubber covered and plain (just in case I decided I preferred one over the other for any reason).
 
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