Lancia Scorpion #1409 Restoration

Discussion in 'X1/20 Forum' started by rongineer, Jul 31, 2019.

  1. rongineer

    rongineer New Member

    Location:
    Laguna Hills, CA
    Hey Guys,

    It's been a while since I tuned into the forum and I thought you might enjoy reading about restoring my Scorpion: here

    Ron

    New Wheels-400.jpg Left-Interior.jpg Distributor.jpg
     
    mkmini, Tom Ginefra, kmead and 2 others like this.
  2. NM850

    NM850 True Classic

    Location:
    Albuquerque NM
    Very nice. Enjoyable read and quality work.
    Anybody who buys a Milano to “experience the design “ is a great car guy in my book.
     
  3. motoTrooper

    motoTrooper True Classic

    Excellent result there Ron! Interesting to also read about your development with the Subaru SVX. I have installed an SVX engine in my Scorpion and am (slowly) working to bring it to fruition!
     
    mkmini likes this.
  4. kmead

    kmead Old enough to know better

    Location:
    Michigan
    Excellent write up and build.

    A really lovely car. Congrats on making it through all of that.

    The wiring part of this although understated in the description must have been a nightmare and a head scratcher.

    Thank you for documenting this and sharing it here. Great work and very tasteful result.

    I really need to get one of these. Perhaps one of my X’s will have to go to make room.
     
  5. RJ80

    RJ80 True Classic

    Location:
    Kitsap, WA
    Ron, did you use the aluminum flywheel that Allison sells? If so, how do you like it? I think it's less than half the weight of the stock item which would worry me a little for street use.
     
  6. rongineer

    rongineer New Member

    Location:
    Laguna Hills, CA
    I did install the Allison aluminum flywheel. I've not had any driveability issues with it. In fact, I've found on all the cars I've restored or modified, installing light flywheels and light road wheels are one of the most effective performance mods. This is particularly true for a light car like the Scorpion. That's why I installed 13" magnesium wheels on the car. They may lack bling, but the difference between those and 14'" or 15" wheels is dramatic. Here's some work I did in my college days on rotating inertia of wheels: here
    Ron
     
  7. RJ80

    RJ80 True Classic

    Location:
    Kitsap, WA
    Very interesting. I bought one that had been used for a couple hundred miles and then removed because the seller didn't like it. The deal was too good to pass up (about half off the new cost). Maybe I'll go ahead and give it a try after all when the engine goes back in my car.

    I'm running 15-inch Ronal A1 replicas on my Scorpion that weigh about 15 lbs each, but have a set of magnesium 13" Cromodora CD30s (about 9 lbs each) set aside to see if I notice a significant difference.

    I also own a Milano Verde and I think I met the owner of your old car (Tim @ Singer). Always wanted a red one, but ended up with black which has really grown on me.
     
  8. Chad C.

    Chad C. True Classic

    Location:
    Eugene, Oregon
    Is there an advantage to the distributor being spun from the end of the cam as pictured? I noticed BEEK did the same on his build. I know the Euro Betas & Ritmos had this configuration, just don't know what's up with that.
     
  9. Pete Whitstone

    Pete Whitstone True Classic

    Location:
    McKinney, TX
    Aside from packaging considerations (much easier to get to), my understanding is that it removes some slop from the timing. If you have the spark being timed directly from the cam, it's arrival is more accurate to valve events than it if is being driven from a belt connected to the cam. Belt stretch (both permanent and momentary) are eliminated from the equation.

    Having said that though, unless your crank to cam interface is a tight gear, you're going to have some slop either way. Ideally the spark would arrive at the correct time for the piston travel, more so than valve event, I would think. So to me, that's an argument for the block-mount arrangement, as there is shorter travel (less opportunity for belt stretch) between the crank pulley and the aux shaft pulley.

    But back to the cam-mount... it just looks damn cool.

    Pete
     
  10. rongineer

    rongineer New Member

    Location:
    Laguna Hills, CA
    Despite having some concern that the original distributor was not working properly, I'll admit that I changed to the cam drive arrangement because....."it just looks damn cool"!

    As for the issue of potential drive slop, recognize that the cam spinning the distributor is still driven by the timing belt. What has been eliminated in this set-up is the potential slop in the gear drive off the cam in the original distributor arrangement.

    Ron
     
    kmead likes this.
  11. lanciahf

    lanciahf True Classic

    Location:
    New Jersey
    Ron,
    Regarding the Vicks coilovers. Did you use the springs or gthey supplied or did you go custom? How do they compare to the x1/9 struts you were using?

    Thanks,
    Ralph
     
  12. Pete Whitstone

    Pete Whitstone True Classic

    Location:
    McKinney, TX
    Ah, excellent point. I forgot that the "normal" distributor location for a TC motor is a gear drive off the cam. I was thinking of the SOHC motor where it is spun off an Aux shaft that is driven by the timing belt.

    It's been a few years since I messed with either a SOHC or a TC motor, as you might be able to tell from my sig. ;)

    Pete
     
  13. kmead

    kmead Old enough to know better

    Location:
    Michigan
    Generally when thinking about the timing of things, the spark should be driven off the crank position to coincide with the position of the pistons. The injection should be relative to the opening of the valves thus why some injection systems use a cam position sensor to ensure the valves are actually opening when the fuel is injected.
     
  14. BEEK

    BEEK True Classic

    Location:
    Clermont Fl
    My reasons are:
    1. gets the distributor out of the exhaust heat (being driven from the exhaust cam as 124)
    2. makes more room on the intake side for better air filter housing
    3. dont like block driven distributors esp in scorpion, no way to even get to it
    4. I like the looks :)
     
  15. rongineer

    rongineer New Member

    Location:
    Laguna Hills, CA
    Ralph,
    I used the springs that came with the Vicks coilovers. I just adjusted the spring perches to get the ride height I wanted. The KYB rear struts with Monte Hospital springs all around rode ok, but I think the Vick set-up rides better.
    HTH,
    Ron
     
    lanciahf likes this.
  16. lanciahf

    lanciahf True Classic

    Location:
    New Jersey
    Thanks Ron, A couple of years ago I used your dash repair summary to great effect on my old Scorpion.
     

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