Lancia Scorpion #1733 -- new owner, project start
- Thread starter RJ80
- Start date
RJ80
True Classic
Interesting! I’ll have to get them cleaned up later this week and will report back. Do you know much about the brand?
Mark
FIATFREAK
No, they came with a spare engine when I bought a Scorpion 20 years ago. They look similar to the Mondial pistons in my other engines.
RJ80
True Classic
Flipping through Croft's big red book last night, he makes mention of "KS" pistons being cast but of very good quality and suitable for builds up to 175 hp. Beyond that, he recommends forged pistons of his own specification. I guess the logo cast into the underside of the pistons that I had trouble making out is a stylized K and S.
I still need to get everything cleaned, inspected and measured, but I'm beginning to wonder if I might end up lucky and get by with a re-ring and cylinder hone. Maybe that's a little optimistic.
I still need to get everything cleaned, inspected and measured, but I'm beginning to wonder if I might end up lucky and get by with a re-ring and cylinder hone. Maybe that's a little optimistic.
Jefco
daily driven if I drive daily
Most likely KS Kolbenschmidt GmbH, now a part of Rheinmetall Automotive, which also owns Pierburg (carbeurators).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rheinmetall_Automotive
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rheinmetall_Automotive
RJ80
True Classic
Alright, back to this thread after my steering wheel removal escapade. Here's a picture of the result, the wheel is a stock size (360mm) Momo Cavallino, supposedly modeled after the mid-late 1970s Ferrari F1 Momos and produced around the same time, so it's period-correct. It's also similar to the Mario Andretti signature Momo wheel. I liked that this one came with the horn pad, which is usually lost or junked by previous owners. May end up removing it later, but for now I like it.
I used a Fiat Spider 2000 ('79+) steering wheel hub as an adapter which has a side benefit of putting the wheel a bit closer to me and helping to alleviate the very Italian "long arms, short legs" driving position. As a result, the wheel is further from my knees -- much more comfortable. By the way, the 124 hub even seems to cancel the turn signals properly just from my testing in the garage. Perfect! The best part is you can find these reasonably priced from time to time on eBay. I think I paid $40 shipped for mine, though it could use a re-paint. There's about a half inch gap between the back of the hub and the plastic steering column cowling with this adapter, but no big deal.
I used a Fiat Spider 2000 ('79+) steering wheel hub as an adapter which has a side benefit of putting the wheel a bit closer to me and helping to alleviate the very Italian "long arms, short legs" driving position. As a result, the wheel is further from my knees -- much more comfortable. By the way, the 124 hub even seems to cancel the turn signals properly just from my testing in the garage. Perfect! The best part is you can find these reasonably priced from time to time on eBay. I think I paid $40 shipped for mine, though it could use a re-paint. There's about a half inch gap between the back of the hub and the plastic steering column cowling with this adapter, but no big deal.
RJ80
True Classic
Thanks, Chad! Hope you have better luck getting the old wheel off than I did, though my difficulty seemed to be a rare case.
The shifter knob does indeed come from a 124 Spider, but most of the lever you see is an aftermarket 3-inch extension. My shift lever originally had a different non-stock knob and it wasn't much taller than the top of the shift boot, making for pretty terrible shift action. I don't know if my lever was cut down and rethreaded or if that's how they came and the tall stock shift knob compensated for it.
I ordered the extension from a U.S.-based vendor, but when it arrived I realized it said "Made in Italy" on the side. Funny coincidence! Much better shifting now with far more leverage. Short shift levers are great in cars like Miatas that are deigned that way from the factory, but not with the crazy shift linkage our Scorpions have.
RJ80
True Classic
I spent the last couple weeks getting the Scorpion out for some short 20-30 mile drives and the car continues to run great. I'm enjoying driving it very much and it's wonderful how calm the cabin is at 60 mph with the roof open. Unfortunately, with 300 miles since the engine rebuild I've lost about a quart of oil and now have evidence of oil leaks, with a wet garage floor after my drives. The valve cover and cambox gaskets look damp and oil is found on the transmission housing and dripping off the sump and lower engine. It's tough to say exactly where it's coming from, I know from the past that a little leak can make a big mess so I'm hoping it's not too big of a deal. Best to have the people who built the engine sort it out, I figure -- especially while it's still under their two-year warranty.
Before I bring it back there, I figured I'd get to replacing the struts at all four corners so that I can also have it aligned while it's at the shop. My original front struts are severely leaky and spring control is poor with the car bouncing around all over the place on uneven roads. I'm replacing all four corners with a very lightly used set of KYB Excel-G struts from an X1/9 which I bought as complete assemblies with Vick Auto sport springs and really nice strut tops. Today, I took apart the front X1/9 assemblies to add a set of used Plaia Pivots that I bought from Fiatplus (they came off the wrecked X that Chris was parting out recently). That install went smoothly and I buttoned everything back up.
Then, I pulled the front passenger side strut and found that somewhere down the line, the top carrier mounting hole on the strut assembly had been slotted and the securing nut welded to the body of the strut. Perhaps this was in an effort to give more negative camber up front. Because I'm using X struts, I'll be adding solid 15mm aluminum spacers from MWB to give clearance from the spring perch and I also bought a used set of camber bolts from Fiatplus at the same time as the Plaia Pivots, which should help me keep the factory settings with the X struts. That said, anyone have any preferred alignment variations for fast street use?
Over the long holiday weekend I'll complete this job and add some more photos. In the photos below, you can see the original leaky driver's side front strut (so much so that the inner wheel is coated in fluid), the Plaia Pivots replacing the original X plastic spacers, and the new struts in comparison with the original Scorpion items. Compressed, the Vick Auto X sport springs are 9 inches tall, the original Scorpion items are 10 inches. I think that the Vick springs should be about Montecarlo length, given that Monte springs are slightly shorter. Looking forward to seeing how the car looks with this swap and more importantly, how it feels on the road. The stock Scorpion springs are quite plush, I'm expecting these to be a bit firmer but hopefully not too much so.
Before I bring it back there, I figured I'd get to replacing the struts at all four corners so that I can also have it aligned while it's at the shop. My original front struts are severely leaky and spring control is poor with the car bouncing around all over the place on uneven roads. I'm replacing all four corners with a very lightly used set of KYB Excel-G struts from an X1/9 which I bought as complete assemblies with Vick Auto sport springs and really nice strut tops. Today, I took apart the front X1/9 assemblies to add a set of used Plaia Pivots that I bought from Fiatplus (they came off the wrecked X that Chris was parting out recently). That install went smoothly and I buttoned everything back up.
Then, I pulled the front passenger side strut and found that somewhere down the line, the top carrier mounting hole on the strut assembly had been slotted and the securing nut welded to the body of the strut. Perhaps this was in an effort to give more negative camber up front. Because I'm using X struts, I'll be adding solid 15mm aluminum spacers from MWB to give clearance from the spring perch and I also bought a used set of camber bolts from Fiatplus at the same time as the Plaia Pivots, which should help me keep the factory settings with the X struts. That said, anyone have any preferred alignment variations for fast street use?
Over the long holiday weekend I'll complete this job and add some more photos. In the photos below, you can see the original leaky driver's side front strut (so much so that the inner wheel is coated in fluid), the Plaia Pivots replacing the original X plastic spacers, and the new struts in comparison with the original Scorpion items. Compressed, the Vick Auto X sport springs are 9 inches tall, the original Scorpion items are 10 inches. I think that the Vick springs should be about Montecarlo length, given that Monte springs are slightly shorter. Looking forward to seeing how the car looks with this swap and more importantly, how it feels on the road. The stock Scorpion springs are quite plush, I'm expecting these to be a bit firmer but hopefully not too much so.
kmead
Old enough to know better
Wow the front is going to be much lower like at least 2”. I am surprised how much less range of motion there is in the X strut compared to the Monte strut. I see the X bump stops are up higher about as much as the total sprung difference between the two struts so maybe there won’t be that differential but the height of the mounts to the knuckle are vastly different.
RJ80
True Classic
I took Sunday off and got back to the car today. I always forget how simple strut assemblies are to replace, on the Scorpion and X1/9 it's just two big bolts at the bottom, three little ones at the top, out it comes. While the car was up in the air, I also went ahead and installed the MWB wheel studs I bought at each corner, the front 15mm MWB wheel spacers and added a set of factory 5mm spacers out back (for some reason, my car didn't have any at the rear when I bought it -- probably because of the custom offset Epsilon wheels it came with). Cutting to the chase, the car is significantly lower now. 
Garbage light inside the garage, but here's how it sits:
Wheel/fender gap at the front. I previously had about 2.5 fingers of clearance, now one. For some reason, these photos aren't aligned vertically, even though they were when uploaded:
And at the rear. I had two fingers of gap here before, now basically none:
There's also a bit more negative camber all around, here's the right rear. When the car is aligned, I will probably use camber bolts to fix this:
A view from the back:
I'm hoping this setup will still have some compliance to it, it doesn't feel super firm pushing on the corners. It's a rainy day today, so the first test drive will have to wait a bit. If this doesn't give me enough comfort or travel, then I'll have to investigate more expensive options. I'll also disassemble my stock Wayassauto struts to see if they are of the rebuildable variety, my car is a later build (1733 of 1801), so they may be the sealed type.
With 15x7 ET25 wheels, 195 width tires and 15mm front spacers, I do seem to have adequate clearance between the spring perch and inner tire sidewall -- that was one of my biggest concerns with this setup.
Garbage light inside the garage, but here's how it sits:
Wheel/fender gap at the front. I previously had about 2.5 fingers of clearance, now one. For some reason, these photos aren't aligned vertically, even though they were when uploaded:
And at the rear. I had two fingers of gap here before, now basically none:
There's also a bit more negative camber all around, here's the right rear. When the car is aligned, I will probably use camber bolts to fix this:
A view from the back:
I'm hoping this setup will still have some compliance to it, it doesn't feel super firm pushing on the corners. It's a rainy day today, so the first test drive will have to wait a bit. If this doesn't give me enough comfort or travel, then I'll have to investigate more expensive options. I'll also disassemble my stock Wayassauto struts to see if they are of the rebuildable variety, my car is a later build (1733 of 1801), so they may be the sealed type.
With 15x7 ET25 wheels, 195 width tires and 15mm front spacers, I do seem to have adequate clearance between the spring perch and inner tire sidewall -- that was one of my biggest concerns with this setup.
think jedi
True Classic
Don't you love how easy the front strut assembly is to pull off? I was bracing myself for cracking tie rod ends, but wow, 5 bolts and 10 minutes later, the whole thing was out.
The car's stance looks great! Don't take out too much of that camber or it won't be as much fun to drive.
tJ
The car's stance looks great! Don't take out too much of that camber or it won't be as much fun to drive.
tJ
Last edited:
RJ80
True Classic
Nice warm, sunny day today so I drove the Scorpion down to the local Total Wine for the makings of a Negroni cocktail. First time on the road with the X1/9 suspension. I was nervous it wasn't going to go well, but I've got to say... the car rides fine! Now granted, I haven't been over any speed bumps yet or extremely rough sections of road, but I hit every manhole cover and dip I could find with no bottoming out or odd noises. The ride is firmer than before but nothing even approaching harsh. Mainly, the body is just far better controlled, without all the extra movement it had before. I will need to have it aligned, of course. It started self-steering a little around 70 mph.
I think the KYBs are going to be fine after all. If I decide I do need a little more ride height, I can accomplish that with taller springs down the road.
Also good news, I checked the oil again when I got home... it's not leaking as much as I thought. It's only a third of a quart low, not a full quart. Regardless, I will need to have the leaks investigated.
Here are a couple pictures from the shopping center parking lot:
I think the KYBs are going to be fine after all. If I decide I do need a little more ride height, I can accomplish that with taller springs down the road.
Also good news, I checked the oil again when I got home... it's not leaking as much as I thought. It's only a third of a quart low, not a full quart. Regardless, I will need to have the leaks investigated.
Here are a couple pictures from the shopping center parking lot:
77scorpion
Low Mileage
nice wheels!
RJ80
True Classic
I agree with you. I think that this is the lowest I'd ever want to go. We'll see if the stiffer springs keep clearance acceptable even with two people and maybe an overnight bag or two. I want to be able to use this car on longer trips. Also, I'll eventually replace the big, heavy U.S. bumpers with Monte style before the car is repainted, so that will lose at least 50 pounds of mass at each end, I'd venture.
Last edited:
RJ80
True Classic
Thanks! These are the Ronal A1 replicas in 15x7 with a 25ET offset (produced by Maxilite). I bought them from Centerline Alfa when they were closing them out in 4x98 at about $200/ea. Centerline no longer stocks them in this 4x98 PCD, but various European distributors do.
Last edited:
77scorpion
Low Mileage
Would anyone know if any mods, eg spacers, would be needed to use 205/50-15 rears and 195/50-15 on the front? I plan on running
15X7, 25ET wheels. My scorpion is stock original.
15X7, 25ET wheels. My scorpion is stock original.
RJ80
True Classic
That's what I have on my car. I found the front inner sidewalls were just barely rubbing the perches. This is with the stock 5mm spacer. Adding an another stock spacer should do the trick, plenty of meat left on the hub for hub-centric wheel fitment to. I ended up using solid 15 mm spacers to clear X1/9 struts.
Last edited:
77scorpion
Low Mileage
Thanks for the info, much appreciated.