Latest Project (#2)

Not sure how this got to about engine swap options, but I'll add one more comment to carry it that much further off topic (sorry Tim).
Something Steve said brought this to mind: "would have been a very logical progression for Fiat if they had continued development and put a DOHC 1.6 in the X"
Considering Fiat and Mazda ended up in bed together (hence the 124 Miata), it might seem the natural progression of the X1/9 would have been with one of the FWD Mazda power trains in it.

O.K. Tim, lets get back to your awesome build. :)
 
I just don't feel that that the X1/9 chassis was ever originally designed for a massive amount of hp type of engine swap. 200 Mph? I would be scared as heck driving that fast in the car. I feel the wheels would fall off. The engineers originally designed the chassis for a 1.3l tiny engine with 145/70 13" tires, wheels, suspension and associated brakes, etc. You look at other cars like the Alfa Romeo 4C and Porsche Cayman which all have large engines, massive brakes and associated wheels and suspension. I would feel more confident at high speeds in those cars.

The X1/9 is a great design. I just think cutting all that metal away is not good and it was not meant to be that type of car. I've read posts on chat how the sheet metal on top the strut mounts has cracked. The folks who say it is "okay" are not professionally trained engineers with a degree in Engineering. There is also a massive amount of liability for the manufacturer of a high hp swap kit should the chassis ever fail and someone gets injured.

I am just saying with all the chat talk on various transmission failures ($1,670 rebuild), reverse gear, unavailability of trany parts, cooling problems, clogged cooling ports, blown head gaskets, etc. it would be nice to see a modern day "equal" swap kit on the market instead of a super hp swap with lots of metal cutting. Why pay $1,650 for a rebuilt trany when you can get a Honda Fit engine or Toyota Yaris engine for way less than the cost of a rebuilt (uninstalled) trany. I think the demand is there.
 
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RJH, perhaps you should start a new thread to discuss this. I'm sure others will be interested, and we don't need to high-jack Tim's great build thread here. Thanks for understanding.
 
Dr.Jeff said:
RJH, perhaps you should start a new thread to discuss this. I'm sure others will be interested, and we don't need to high-jack Tim's great build thread here. Thanks for understanding.
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Dr. Jeff, think you mentioned 2x now. Certainly not trying to "hijack" a thread. Dan brought up the subject on metal cutting and several including myself have commented. Thanks for understanding.
 
RJH said:
think you mentioned 2x now.
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It seems your discussion is more about the virtues of the Honda swap than about cutting metal...which is inappropriate for this person's build thread with a Honda swap. I don't mean to sound rude, hope it doesn't come off that way. Honestly your discussion is of interest, I just think it belongs elsewhere. But it's not my thread either, so I'll leave it at that.
 
ok, then I'll also leave a comment :)
First of all - I like Your welding skills, MAG with 0,6 wire?

To keep some strength that is lost by reducing mainly vertical planes, sheetmetal can also be welded inside of modified longerons, like honeycomb/cardboard or just one layer in midle..

I think that all this discussion belongs here - we just have to accept that in this forum nearly every thread outflow in other directions, meanwhile relating to main subject. For me this is reason why I read every discussion here, otherwise have missed a lot of good opinions.

P.S. If I could get MOTed X19 with non-128sohc engine, think that would think about:
1. alfa V6, looks excellent, and even could try to get through MOT, because looks Italian, 70’s design, would just have to make new cambox covers with Fiat logos :D

No way to keep it road legal:
2.bmw 1.8 is m44b19 - a lot of them here in LV, cheap and familiar to me
3.same Honda’s engine, as it’s most popular on xweb, have never seen one in close
 
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Perhaps I misunderstood RJH's intent (sorry if I did), but to me it sounded rather critical of the eng/trans choice that had been made for this particular project. Kind of late to be telling the builder that its all wrong after he is well into the build, especially when he has successfully done this same swap several times already.
Janis is right, we will hear differing opinions in most threads. And I fully respect every opinion. But to repeat it and expound on it just seemed a little unnecessary to me. At least not in his build thread; take it elsewhere and express the opinion if it to be an ongoing critical one. If I were the builder I'd be offended by the implications.
So I've explained my point. Apology if I've offended anyone. Especially to RJH if I totally misread your comments. Plus it really isn't my place to say much as this is not my thread....thought I was looking out for a fellow member is all. Hope there are no hard feelings. :)
 
RJH said:
How about this swap? Alfa Romeo Quadrifoglio the top-spec version, packing a Ferrari-derived 2.9L V-6 that sends 505 hp to the rear wheels.

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I don’t believe in Santa Clause, he even didn’t give me a BMX - had to earn money and buy it.
 
Took me FOREVER to get back up to the car. Work has had me traveling pretty much across the globe lately, but managed a couple of days last week - I test fit the engine then put in the last chassis engine mount.

IMG_0473.jpg
IMG_0471.jpg


Discovered I needed to make some room for the intake manifold:

IMG_0475.jpg


The K-series TB has a IACV that you can control idle with via the ECU which is very convenient. However, it mounts to the top of the TB and won't fit (I didn't measure twice I guess...) There are some kits out there that allow you to move it or I just go without one and use a throttle stop.

IMG_0474.jpg


Everything else fits PERFECT. The water pump delete makes a ton of space to route things as well. The electric pump I got from Pete can mount in the front of the car and fits behind the rad. I will have more pics when I start putting the cooling lines back together.
 
I'm enjoying hearing the details involved as you proceed with a engine swap like this. I think it is easy to tell yourself "this will be simple, just drop the new engine in place of the old one"...but it certainly isn't. And you are very experienced with doing these swaps.

Just curious, it might be the perspective of the pictures, but do these sit lower in the chassis offering some reduced ground clearance?
What is that beefy looking strut peaking in the first pic? Looks like something nice.
 
Dr.Jeff said:
I'm enjoying hearing the details involved as you proceed with a engine swap like this. I think it is easy to tell yourself "this will be simple, just drop the new engine in place of the old one"...but it certainly isn't. And you are very experienced with doing these swaps.

Just curious, it might be the perspective of the pictures, but do these sit lower in the chassis offering some reduced ground clearance?
What is that beefy looking strut peaking in the first pic? Looks like something nice.
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They sit lower, but not a ton. the subframe essentially is the lowest point, so you are likely to rub it first before anything else. I have NEVER scraped any of mine.

That's the bottom of one of Vick's coilover kits. I was testing them out on the car, but these will likely get another set.
 
Curious how this is progressing.

Pondering motor swap possibilities again. Has been discussion of using Fiat/Lancia 16V, however locating the right mix of (old and new) parts seems to be a nightmare.

Also, does the K24 motor fit the same way as the K20? They are MUCH cheaper & easier to find. For an NA build, it seems the higher torque would be a definite plus for 'normal' driving.

I see that yours uses the K24 bottom end, so are the mounts the same either way, or are (different) modifications needed to fit it to the subframe? Are you using a MWB frame kit or do you make your own?
 
lookforjoe said:
Curious how this is progressing.

Pondering motor swap possibilities again. Has been discussion of using Fiat/Lancia 16V, however locating the right mix of (old and new) parts seems to be a nightmare.

Also, does the K24 motor fit the same way as the K20? They are MUCH cheaper & easier to find. For an NA build, it seems the higher torque would be a definite plus for 'normal' driving.

I see that yours uses the K24 bottom end, so are the mounts the same either way, or are (different) modifications needed to fit it to the subframe? Are you using a MWB frame kit or do you make your own?
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Hussein sorry for not replying to this sooner. I know you are going with another engine anyway but to answer questions on the engines fitting, close to the same with the exception the engine mount point for the pulley side of the k24 is a little different configuration. Also the pans are different and the k24 sits lower. The swap with the k20 pan requires swapping the oil pump too but it’s worth it if you do the k24+k20 head swap.
 
fiatmonkey said:
1/8” steel plate for nearly everything with 3/16” for long flat bar running along under fuel tank and rear panel.

1/16 for the removable panel.
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Nice. For comparison, I used 14G (.0747) for all my work vs the .125 of 1/8”. I wouldn’t use any much thinner than 14G I think. If you mic your rear suspension cross member pickup that is something like 14G (or the metric equivalent of that).
 
fiatmonkey said:
Hussein sorry for not replying to this sooner. I know you are going with another engine anyway but to answer questions on the engines fitting, close to the same with the exception the engine mount point for the pulley side of the k24 is a little different configuration. Also the pans are different and the k24 sits lower. The swap with the k20 pan requires swapping the oil pump too but it’s worth it if you do the k24+k20 head swap.
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Thanks Tim. MWB suggested I replace the pan, etc. I did luck out & get a K20 RSX Type S oil pump, baffle, hardware & pan combined off a ebay auction that was listing just the pump. Having seen the K24 oil pump (from one of his customer's builds) on the bench at my local machine shop, I'm glad I did.

I'm going to leave the K24 intact for the time being. I know once I take it apart, that will open up another can of worms (or rather $$$$$ for upgrades)
 
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fiatmonkey said:
1/8” steel plate for nearly everything with 3/16” for long flat bar running along under fuel tank and rear panel.
1/16 for the removable panel.
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darwoodious said:
Nice. For comparison, I used 14G (.0747) for all my work vs the .125 of 1/8”. I wouldn’t use any much thinner than 14G I think. If you mic your rear suspension cross member pickup that is something like 14G (or the metric equivalent of that).
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OK. I'll look for sheet metal & plate stock within the ranges you & Darwoodious have listed. I know Home Depot has flat stock & angle iron in 1/8", and 16g sheet metal. Square stock is limited to 1.25" x 16g. If the stock metal surrounding is substantially thinner, I don't see welding heavier stock to it as an advantage? Unless that's attached/joined where there are multiple layers, like the suspension attachments?

Should I plan on adding a reinforcing member within the rear upper crossmember on the '87? I saw posts regarding this, but I thought that was a early body issue. I don't recall MWB mentioning that in the kit notes, I'll recheck.
 
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