Lightweight roof and door card pockets

rjplenter

rjplenter

True Classic
Lying here recovering from back surgery with too much time to think...

Has anyone successfully lightened a roof panel? That would be good for my back in future.

And has anyone ever tried to modify door cards to include a small pocket like on some older sports cars?

Cheers,

Rob
 
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I cut two sections out of the top and stretched vinyl over it. Also removed the insulation and replaced just the head liner. Can't remember the exact weight but want to say it removed 12 pounds. The top feels noticeably lighter than stock. As for the insulation, I haven't noticed any difference on cold days. I have thought about putting a sheet of mylar in after the fact but would have to take the liner out and that is work and I am getting lazier in my old age. Door cards...I think there was a picture of that here not to long ago.
 
Good question on the roof. I had a gutted roof panel but it was messed up in the screw holes that held in the side trim and rubber gaskets. I replaced it with a complete top assembly and it seemed to weigh noticeably more. Like an idiot, I tossed the gutted roof before weighing it but I'm sure there are any number of folks here with gutted tops that can plop one on a bathroom scale.

My biggest objection to Xs is dealing with removing and stowing the targa top, I'm a wimpy guy and never had much upper body strength so I always struggle with this job. I imagine a carbon fiber top would be amazing....and so would it's price.
 
My 1979 has nothing but a pan for the roof panel. It is very light and much easier to stow. I remember my 1980 had a white headliner and the '83 and '86 had black headliner. Both weigh more than the top without headliner. When I scrapped my '86 I struggled with which top I should keep or perhaps keep both? No headliner was the correct choice and a winner for sure!
I have considered the map pockets on my door cards. They would be just that... A map is a folded piece of paper old timers would use when planning or taking any trip outside of the 25 mile radius around their home... :) These were widely available and used frequently before smartphones and gps nav was THE thing. I point this out because you don't really have much room to work with. I have manual windows so the front of door is not an option. If you have power windows then I would put the pocket there so if you jammed a load of stuff in there it would protrude in your leg space. It would also be less likely to fly out on door close. Farther back and it is next to your hip when door is closed (less space)and would sling more.
I still may do this and would find the best elastic cord and rivet through each end into a small metal plate on the back of the door card... You could do this so the pocket actually covers the rivet or use a decorative fastener on top of the pocket...
Just my .02
Best recovery to you!
Regards
 
I went out and did some weighing.The top I cut the panels out of weighs in at 14 pounds. The top with panels but a glue in headliner weighs 20.2 pounds. A guess of 21 pounds with stock headliner. So it looks like 6 pounds was shaved. Cutting the panels was not a fun thing to do. After that the rest wasn't so hard.
 
As a life long worker of wood I would suggest that it is pretty tricky to hog out material in this way... What about removing three equal sections leaving ribs of material maybe an inch wide spaced evenly then cover the top with a thin canvas top material?
I don't think the top material is going to be terribly strong if it is much thinner than it is.
You could also cut the entire center out five minute epoxy a 3/4 foam panel in it's place. Contour sand it to the proper profile then lay carbon fiber cloth over that, coat it with epoxy resin. Once this is cured you can dissolve the foam with lacquer thinner and glass the inside... Just a wagon but it could save weight IMO.
Regards
 
rocco79/138 said:
A map is a folded piece of paper old timers would use when planning or taking any trip outside of the 25 mile radius around their home.
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Millennials won't have a clue what you are talking about. Nor will they care. :)

Here are a couple examples of door card pockets I found with a quick Google search (something a Millennial does know about):
http://rev9autosport.com/zoom-door-storage-pockets.html

https://www.jjkeller.com/shop/Produ...-01605-_-308&gclid=CNfgz9CfyNQCFQx9fgodc-AIOA

https://www.ebay.com/i/172514787915?chn=ps&dispItem=1

Some are too small, others over priced, but it may give some ideas.

As for cutting out the top panel, keep in mind the wind will want to rip any cover materials off so it needs to be durable and firmly attached. But a fabric cover (eg. convertible top material) might look sharp.

Rob, send me a message about your surgery.
 
rocco79/138 said:
As a life long worker of wood I would suggest that it is pretty tricky to hog out material in this way... What about removing three equal sections leaving ribs of material maybe an inch wide spaced evenly then cover the top with a thin canvas top material?
I don't think the top material is going to be terribly strong if it is much thinner than it is.
You could also cut the entire center out five minute epoxy a 3/4 foam panel in it's place. Contour sand it to the proper profile then lay carbon fiber cloth over that, coat it with epoxy resin. Once this is cured you can dissolve the foam with lacquer thinner and glass the inside... Just a wagon but it could save weight IMO.
Regards
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That is what I mean by cutting out panels. As you can see the roof lines of the cut outs show. It took about a year. Also the vinyl puffs up a bit at higher speeds.
 

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What did you use to cut the sections out of the panel?
I wonder if a thin sheet of aluminum could be put between the cut-out top and the fabric to provide support. In other words, something light but solid (in place of the original solid top panel) to glue the fabric to.
 
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There is at least one millennial who reads this thread and keeps folded maps in his door pockets. :D

I'm going to make trunk covers and roof from fiberglass to loose weight. roof may be easier to make from alu sheet as it doesn't have too complicated shape. To avoid cracks on small angles, alu is possible to *?temper?(make it softer) , draw with simple soap a line where You ar going to heat, when soap gets black, it's enough.
 
mkmini said:
roof may be easier to make from alu sheet
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Good idea. I was thinking of the alum as a 'support' layer under the fabric. But now I'm thinking an alum skin (retaining the outer 'frame' structure of the factory top) as the final surface (no fabric). You could give it a 'brushed' or 'polished' finish. As you say, 'annealing' the alum makes it easy to form. Maybe make a wooden buck to shape it over, or just hand form? It is a fairly simple shape but the 'dome' contour needs something like an English wheel to get right.

Latvia road map, when the roads look like this? (only joking)
070813latroads.jpg

Actually you have lots of very beautiful scenery there.
 
Dr.Jeff said:
What did you use to cut the sections out of the panel?
I wonder if a thin sheet of aluminum could be put between the cut-out top and the fabric to provide support. In other words, something light but solid (in place of the original solid top panel) to glue the fabric to.
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Skill saw for straight lines and a saber saw for the curves. Wear a mask as the material the top is made of puts off a lot of dust. Can't say about the aluminum but the idea is to shave weight so you want to put the minimum of material back on. I put my hand out on the top at 70mph and while it feel like it is lifting it was not that bad and the vinyl has stayed snug for years.
 
mkmini said:
There is at least one millennial who reads this thread and keeps folded maps in his door pockets. :D
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My wife and I traveled to art shows for over 18 years using maps. The first few trips we had problems but she got so good at navigating that we never got lost...except San Francisco. We was near divorce a couple of times. The best time we had in San Fran was when I threw the map in the back seat and said lets just drive around for the day. We saw all the sites with nary a cross word. I live in a Victorian tourist town with narrow streets. Hardly a year goes by that an 18 wheeler doesn't get stuck on one of the streets because he was following his GPS.
 
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dragonsgate said:
I put my hand out on the top at 70mph and while it feel like it is lifting it was not that bad and the vinyl has stayed snug for years.
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Good to know, I imagined it might be a bigger issue. What adhesive did you use to attach the material to the top? Thanks.

dragonsgate said:
I threw the map in the back seat and said lets just drive around for the day
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On a recent trip to the island of Cyprus our GPS and smart phones were not working, so we were limited to using only maps. Driving a right hand drive, left hand shift rental car on the opposite side of the road (for us). What was 'fun' was the combination of inaccurate maps, multiple names for the same streets (in many cases there where as many as 4 completely different names for 1 street, all currently used depending on the source), complete lack of street signs, and no help from locals (the locals where the friendliest people I've ever met but they seldom traveled more than a few meters from their homes and did not know where anything was). Add to that excessively narrow streets that often go no where, especially at night with no street lights. Talk about driving around for hours and feeling lost! Good times.
 
Dr.Jeff said:
Good to know, I imagined it might be a bigger issue. What adhesive did you use to attach the material to the top?
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I used contact cement on only the front part. I used 3M. I think it was yellow trim super adhesive. I placed the vinyl on the top with plenty of overlap all around. After I glued the front part I put the top on the car an clamped it down and let it set over night. I then stretched the vinyl all the way around using the trim pieces to hold it in place. On the back I stretched and tacked the vinyl in place with a series of small screws. Before you start test what ever glue you use on a scrap piece if the material you are using.
 
rjplenter said:
Lying here recovering from back surgery with too much time to think...

Has anyone successfully lightened a roof panel? That would be good for my back in future.
Cheers,
Rob
Click to expand...

Here's to a full recovery from your surgery. I also need to lose weight on the targa, but because with the Dallara panels, I have to lean further in to stow the panel - that extra lean over is definitely not good for my back...
 
My kids laugh when I mention the word "map". But I'm the one they call when their phone GPS craps out so they can find their way.
 
I'm a fan of GPS...not necessarily a phone, but a GPS. That said, I need to buy one.

I have 4 tops for 2 X1/9s. 2 of them are only the black (plastic?) material & the other two have a headliner & all that jazz. I don't think any are gutted. The ones w/o the liner feel lighter already...I might try these out some time on my bike scale out of curiosity. I'm planning on making one of mine heavier by adding a mount for a bicycle anyway.
 
Saratoga tops are less than half the weight of a normal top.
Good luck finding one at a reasonable price.
I have added Henk armrest to my X1/9s and use the inside as my door pocket.
 
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