Looking for electronic switching device ideas

I guess I should have said the frequency would not change enough considering those modules have a really high frequency (>20kHz). Unfortunately the inexpensive PWM modules I looked at do not offer much detail so I could not check the math to calculate it. Therefore I'm only assuming as much.
 
Update to this subject.

Just for fun I purchased a very inexpensive PWM module that had a really slow (relatively speaking) frequency. I was curious if something already assembled like this could work for my intended application. So I hooked up a single injector (i.e. with less current draw than the module is rated for), but it did not pulse...just opened the injector solenoid when started, and held it open until the module was shut off. Perhaps more development is needed to go this route but I will not bother with it.

Instead I put that module into the "spare junk electronics bits" storage box and I'm ordering the components to assemble the LM555 based design discussed earlier. Due to my lack of skill with fine electronic component soldering, I am also getting one of the solderless prototype breadboards and jumpers to assemble it. For my purposes this is sufficient. And due to the fact all of the needed components seem to come in bundles of 10 to 100 (for very little money), I'll have enough spare components to try soldering them as well later on.

I'm keeping the design as simple as possible initially. If everything works as intended, I can always expand it with additional components for more functions. As I said there will be plenty of spare parts so I'm not afraid to screw things up while I learn about building circuit board stuff.

The main reason for this post is to say thanks to everyone for giving me the knowledge and courage to try building this. ;) I'll let you know how it goes (might be awhile before I get back to it though).
 
While making the parts list to order the components, I came up with a question.

Looking at the schematic that I'm following (below), it's a little confusing how the MOSFET is connected with the LM555. The resistor between the 555's output (#3) and MOSFET's "Gate" (R8 in the diagram, yellow box) seems to follow the 555 datasheet when using it in astable form (the datasheet only shows a open output, not connected to a MOSFET or anything else). But why the resistor (R7, red box) between the gate and ground? For that matter, isn't the output from the 555 a "positive" signal? In the diagram it looks like a "negative" signal into the MOSFET? I get that the MOSFET is switching the negative side of the injector (D and S), but I'd think there wouldn't be any connection between the 'gate' and ground?

I tried to find the answer to these questions by reading the MOSFET datasheet and other webpages on it, but wasn't able to figure things out. Which is my way of saying please explain thing in very simple terms. ;) Thanks.

injector-tester-schematic-variable - Copy (2).jpg
 
While making the parts list to order the components, I came up with a question.

Looking at the schematic that I'm following (below), it's a little confusing how the MOSFET is connected with the LM555. The resistor between the 555's output (#3) and MOSFET's "Gate" (R8 in the diagram, yellow box) seems to follow the 555 datasheet when using it in astable form (the datasheet only shows a open output, not connected to a MOSFET or anything else). But why the resistor (R7, red box) between the gate and ground? For that matter, isn't the output from the 555 a "positive" signal? In the diagram it looks like a "negative" signal into the MOSFET? I get that the MOSFET is switching the negative side of the injector (D and S), but I'd think there wouldn't be any connection between the 'gate' and ground?

I tried to find the answer to these questions by reading the MOSFET datasheet and other webpages on it, but wasn't able to figure things out. Which is my way of saying please explain thing in very simple terms. ;) Thanks.

View attachment 28808
It is likely there to make sure the gate charge has a path to ground regardless of the output state. This gives greater protection from electrostatic discharge during handling and assembly. If it was a much lower value resistor, I'd say it may help turn the device off quicker but it is too high a value for that compared to the 555 output impedance + 10 ohms.
 
to make sure the gate charge has a path to ground regardless of the output state
Thanks Don. So due to it being higher resistance than the rest of the circuit, it won't create a "shortcut" path (so to speak) for the 555 output to go straight to the ground instead of triggering the MOSFET; the output will take the lesser resistance path to the MOSFET?
 
Thanks Don. So due to it being higher resistance than the rest of the circuit, it won't create a "shortcut" path (so to speak) for the 555 output to go straight to the ground instead of triggering the MOSFET; the output will take the lesser resistance path to the MOSFET?
It does create a "shortcut path" to ground but the current is very small. A 1K ohm resistor results in 1mA of current with one volt across it so compared to the 555 output with 10 ohms in series, it will never be noticed. However, it should be more than enough to keep the gate safe. Those DMOS FETs are pretty rugged compared to the FETs used in logic circuits.
 
Thanks again.
Based on the info in the 555's datasheet, I calculated the values for the resistors and capacitor to get the frequency, duty cycle, and time intervals I want (hopefully). Another reference I found uses a MOSFET with a high enough capacity so I only need one to handle the load I'll be running (for all 8 injectors). Now I can order everything.
 
I just reviewed this entire thread to make sure I haven't forgotten to include anything on my order list. I will freely admit that I did not understand anything about this stuff when I started the thread. But after everyone's help I'm able to make sense of most of it now. In fact I see that one of Rachael's prior posts actually answered the question I asked yesterday - about the resistor on the MOSFET gate to ground - but it did not make sense at the time. Thanks again to everyone. ;)
 
Electronic switching is great for circuits that can afford a little resistance along the way. Circuits such as electronic ignition and logic can afford a little in-circuit resistance because the result shows little (if any) difference to that resistance. That, and there is usually a path to dump some heat along the way. Ignition circuits often uses wire with resistance built-into it (mainly to reduce electronic magnetic interference) and the loses from the primary side of the coil are relatively negligible when you consider what you get at the secondary side The coil itself is a heat sink to the losses it absorbs. Logic circuitry uses 1's and 0's with a relatively wide range in-between so the loses there are unnoticed. Circuits such as an injector (basically a solenoid coil) are categorized as a logic circuit because they are either full on or full off with a mechanical delay in-between. Still, you have to consider the insertion loss of the switching device and what to do with that lost power if it's significant.

But with circuits with high demand, such as motors you want all you can get because a small current loss is noticed in performance loss.
In the old days when we were forced to use Transistors, particularly Silicon, where a minimum 0.6V loss was observed -which was a lot when you start drawing current.
We could use Germanium transistors to reduce that to a 0.3v loss, but it was still a lot. (remember those old Delco ECM's?) Today, we have power MOSFET devices as shown in the early part of this post, which has a typical 0.1V loss, which is a lot nicer when you consider the other choices, but even that 0.1V loss can add up when you're dealing with high current devices. You still have to heat-sink the device, as drawing 10 amps at a 0.1V loss through such a device will produce 1 watt of thermal energy that you have do dissipate somewhere, else lose the MOSFET device to thermal breakdown. For intermittent devices, this is not usually a problem, but for continuous duty, it becomes a big problem.

One way around this is to use pulse width modulation. This is used a lot in automotive dimmers where you send the full voltage to the device (usually lamps or LED's) by using variable width pulses. Our eyes can only discriminate a 40 millisecond pulse, so keeping the pulse width much faster makes the light appear to ramp smoothly and not flicker. Pulse width modulation is used in fuel injection systems as well. This method can also be used for varying motor speeds, but the switching frequency wants to be higher than our hearing range so we don't hear the switching frequency come through the motor windings.

Regardless of your application, you need to keep in mind that when using Power MOSFET devices to switch your devices on & off, you will also need to dissipate the heat generated from the loses. In some cases, this can take a considerable amount of physical space to do. LED Lamps for example, struggle with these power losses a lot.

Sometimes, for simple on/off applications, it's best to use a relatively zero loss relay, but for high speed switching such as fuel injection and the likes, that's simply not an option.
 
Electronic switching is great for circuits that can afford a little resistance along the way. Circuits such as electronic ignition and logic can afford a little in-circuit resistance because the result shows little (if any) difference to that resistance. That, and there is usually a path to dump some heat along the way. Ignition circuits often uses wire with resistance built-into it (mainly to reduce electronic magnetic interference) and the loses from the primary side of the coil are relatively negligible when you consider what you get at the secondary side The coil itself is a heat sink to the losses it absorbs. Logic circuitry uses 1's and 0's with a relatively wide range in-between so the loses there are unnoticed. Circuits such as an injector (basically a solenoid coil) are categorized as a logic circuit because they are either full on or full off with a mechanical delay in-between. Still, you have to consider the insertion loss of the switching device and what to do with that lost power if it's significant.

But with circuits with high demand, such as motors you want all you can get because a small current loss is noticed in performance loss.
In the old days when we were forced to use Transistors, particularly Silicon, where a minimum 0.6V loss was observed -which was a lot when you start drawing current.
We could use Germanium transistors to reduce that to a 0.3v loss, but it was still a lot. (remember those old Delco ECM's?) Today, we have power MOSFET devices as shown in the early part of this post, which has a typical 0.1V loss, which is a lot nicer when you consider the other choices, but even that 0.1V loss can add up when you're dealing with high current devices. You still have to heat-sink the device, as drawing 10 amps at a 0.1V loss through such a device will produce 1 watt of thermal energy that you have do dissipate somewhere, else lose the MOSFET device to thermal breakdown. For intermittent devices, this is not usually a problem, but for continuous duty, it becomes a big problem.

One way around this is to use pulse width modulation. This is used a lot in automotive dimmers where you send the full voltage to the device (usually lamps or LED's) by using variable width pulses. Our eyes can only discriminate a 40 millisecond pulse, so keeping the pulse width much faster makes the light appear to ramp smoothly and not flicker. Pulse width modulation is used in fuel injection systems as well. This method can also be used for varying motor speeds, but the switching frequency wants to be higher than our hearing range so we don't hear the switching frequency come through the motor windings.

Regardless of your application, you need to keep in mind that when using Power MOSFET devices to switch your devices on & off, you will also need to dissipate the heat generated from the loses. In some cases, this can take a considerable amount of physical space to do. LED Lamps for example, struggle with these power losses a lot.

Sometimes, for simple on/off applications, it's best to use a relatively zero loss relay, but for high speed switching such as fuel injection and the likes, that's simply not an option.
Thanks Bob, I greatly appreciate all the input I can get.

In my case the application is fuel injectors (either 4 or 8 of them, depending what project I'm working on) cycled on/off while cleaning or testing them. The actual speed (freq) they are switched isn't really too critical as long as it is constant. I tried a PWM device to do this but it did not work for some reason; really don't know why but decided to change to the "555" switching device that has been successfully used by many people for this application. I'm just following the schematics they have used. The maximum amperage that might exist with 8 high load injectors is about 40 to 50 amps (peak), so I'm using a MOSFET with 75 amps capacity.

During the 'testing' phase the device will only be run for about a minute. But for the 'cleaning' phase it must run continuously for several hours. I played with the calculations to select components that should run the 555 at a frequency of about 60hz, with a duty cycle around 50%, and the injectors open for about 8ms. This is much slower than they normally run, but sufficient for my purposes and hopefully the slower speed will put less demand on everything. So if I follow everything you said correctly, I need to use a heat sink on the MOSFET to protect it from overheating. How about for the "555", will it need help dissipating heat also? I've thought about adding a small fan (like the ones in a computer case) as well...easy to do since this is a 12V circuit. Please verify if I got your comments correct.

Also please add any/all of your thoughts on what I'm doing. This is new territory for me and I'm not at all certain if I'm doing any of it correctly. I can list the components I've selected so far (the order hasn't been placed yet) if that helps. Thanks.
 
I'd be surprised if the 555 needed a heat sink. They don't dissipate much power by themselves. You could figure out the output dissipation but it is only driving the gate capacitance and a 1K resistor through a 10 ohm resistor. I would guess the effect of the gate capacitance at 60Hz would be small.
 
Quite possibly. Unfortunately I know absolutely nothing about them. :( It may be an excellent choice, however at this point I have no desire to learn all about it and figure out how to make one work for my application. As can be seen, I am merely copying a design that has been proven to work. And even that has been difficult enough for me. :oops: Unfortunately I've not seen any Arduino devices used this way and therefore have nothing to copy. ;) But the suggestion is a good one - hopefully someone with the knowledge can make one work?
 
I finally got back to this little project. I had ordered all of the needed components, but by the time everything arrived I was focused on something else so this got pushed aside.

Just to give a quick review. I am assembling a small electrical "switching" device to pulse fuel injectors on and off, for testing and cleaning functions. I decided to use the same design as several sources have done in the past; I'm just copying it from ones found online. They are based on a LM555 component and this is the core of it:
InjDrive2.png


From there they add a MOSFET to handle the injector's load. The basic schematic looks like this:
injector-tester-schematic-variable - Copy (3).jpg


With the help of several brilliant people here I was able to calculate the resistor values so it pulses at a reasonable rate and duty cycle for my needs.

Due to my poor general soldering skills, and a complete lack of prior experience building electronic circuit stuff, I used a "solderless" prototyping breadboard to assemble it. The biggest surprise to me is how tiny this is; all of the components are miniscule, and the entire thing is less than an inch square.

To test it I connected one known good injector, a battery, and flipped the power switch. Guess I did something wrong. When the power switch first connects the injector opens, then remains open until the power switch is closed. I'm seeing about a volt drop between the input side and output side. But no pulsing. Nothing looks cooked (that I can tell). So no idea what's wrong, and worse yet no idea how to find out.

Any help is appreciated.
 
You don't have the reset line (pin 4) and the control voltage (pin 5) connected. Pin 4 is the likely problem. Good practice would advise putting a .01uF capacitor between pin 5 and ground to prevent noise from affecting the reference voltage of the comparator. Without the reset line connected you are just getting the output to turn on but not off.

Check out the data sheet which shows how to set it up for astable operation and selection of values:


The astable stuff starts on page 5.
 
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You don't have the reset line (pin 4) and the control voltage (pin 5) connected. Pin 4 is the likely problem. Good practice would advise putting a .01uF capacitor between pin 5 and ground to prevent noise from affecting the reference voltage of the comparator. Without the reset line connected you are just getting the output to turn on but not off.

Check out the data sheet which shows how to set it up for astable operation and selection of values:


The astable stuff starts on page 5.
Thanks Don. 😊
Previously you directed me to that document and I read it. That's how I determined the resistor values. But I didn't understand some things.
Here is page 5:
diagram.png


Here's another example with the same difference:
LN555 - Copy.png

As you describe, they have something between pin 5 and ground. Also between pin 4 and +12V. Is this that what you are saying?


When I was researching these designs I saw several variations. Most differences were due to adding some other feature, but a couple had a component here or there that the others didn't. Here is another example. See the added feature in red:
injector-tester-schematic-variable - Copy (4).jpg


However almost all of the ones I saw used for my purpose did not have anything attached to pins 4 or 5. So that's what I did. But if you think that's the problem I will try it.

Does the value of .01uF capacitor change depending on the resistor values use or other changes, or is that a good regardless?
 
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I also should have added these examples. The two additions shown here are from two other versions of this diagram; each change was found on two other designs.

One version had the red lead and green capacitor on pin 5, but with nothing on pin 4.

And the blue lead with purple diode (between pins 6 and 7) was on another version, with nothing on pin 4 or 5.

injector-tester-schematic-variable - Copy (3) - Copy.jpg


What are your thoughts on either of these changes?
 
Thanks Don. 😊
Previously you directed me to that document and I read it. That's how I determined the resistor values. But I didn't understand some things.
Here is page 5:
View attachment 39058

Here's another example with the same difference:
View attachment 39061
As you describe, they have something between pin 5 and ground. Also between pin 4 and +12V. Is this that what you are saying?


When I was researching these designs I saw several variations. Most differences were due to adding some other feature, but a couple had a component here or there that the others didn't. Here is another example. See the added feature in red:
View attachment 39060

However almost all of the ones I saw used for my purpose did not have anything attached to pins 4 or 5. So that's what I did. But if you think that's the problem I will try it.

Does the value of .01uF capacitor change depending on the resistor values use or other changes, or is that a good regardless?
The .01uF capacitor is just to keep noise off the comparator reference. Not at all critical. According to the app note in the data sheet, pin 4 needs to be tied high for astable operation.
 
I tried both changes; first adding the lead from pin 4 to +12V, and then adding the capacitor between pin 5 and ground. It still does not pulse with either change. However now the output voltage dropped 8 more volts (in addition to the 1 volt drop initially. But functionally it's the same; the injector solenoid activates when I flip the switch on, and stays until I flip the switch off.

I tried leaving the power on for a bit and feeling if either of the two larger components (LM5005, MOSFET) felt hot. They did not. Then I rechecked all of the connections to the board. And the layout of everything. As far as I can tell it is all good. However this is my first ever attempt at doing something like this, so it's possible I'm still doing something wrong. I'll see if I can get some pictures of the board. But it is so small and everything is so tightly placed it may be difficult to show much detail.

I suppose it's possible one of the components is bad. But the fact I get some action (injector opens and closes) makes me think otherwise? I have spare parts so if nothing else I'll make another one and try to do a better job.
 
I discovered why the voltage dropped so much after the last changes were made. I had the capacitor located incorrectly. Changed that and the voltage is back up.

But it still doesn't work - no pulsing. I tried removing the MOSFET section of it and tested to see if there was any pulsing. But I get no signal at all without the MOSFET. Not sure if it fried the LM555 by not having the MOSFET, or if the LM555 has been the problem all along. Or something else is wrong.

I think I'll trash this one and try making it again. Maybe a different design this time. However all of the ones specifically made for my intended application are designed like the one I already made.

Suggestions?
 
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