Eastep
True Classic
Is this style rare? I thought these were standard 74-76 clusters and 77-78 had different ones, and 79 changed again?? I have one of these in storage
Making of a 308 interior
- Thread starter Clark
- Start date
Greg (in Conn)
Bertone curator - X driver
Yes rare & limited.
Started in the Euro market with the Serie Speciale or Exclusiv Serie so most of those clusters are in kilometers.
limited early run in 1976-77 so not all the Euro Serie speciale have them.
Has to be even more limited in the US (1976) as you just don't see many in MPH.
Clark
True Classic
Just to revisit this - what form of urethane foam did you use? In searching, what comes up is the foam used for furniture padding - is that what you used? Hard to imagine sanding that. Trying to figure out a materials list
Hey Hussein,
I'm using Styrofoam Cladmate CM20. I'm using 60 grit to shape it and it seems to sand pretty good.
Work started today on the center console.... trying to figure out how to get the bracing back in there... I still have the clock to find a place for so maybe some room can be had for an voltmeter like Karl suggested?
Dr.Jeff
True Classic
This might be a little late to offer, but to cut foam materials (from styrofoam to foam rubber and everything in-between) an electric bread knife works wonders. I bought one from someplace like Target for around $10...way back before Walmart even existed...and I'm still using the same one for such projects to this day.
lookforjoe
True Classic
Coming together very nicely! I like the way it's coming together with the tunnel. What thickness is the piece on the tunnel, 2"? What is the advantage to using the orange foam over regular expanding foam? Is it more dense?
Owens-Corning "Foamular" extruded polystrene sheet is what my local box store has, in 1" & 2" thick sheets - 1" 4'x8' sheet is about $18. I'll get a sheet of that when they get stock back in in a week.
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Clark
True Classic
The orange foam was just in a bigger can tbh. Although I think it is a bit more robust now that I think about it. Another nice thing is that after letting the can with the extension straw sit for a day the straw somehow cleans itself out and I can just use it again. Not sure if the other Great Stuff can did that. And yes it's 2 inch thick on the tunnel. I figured it would be easier just carving a thick piece there rather than gluing a couple together.
lookforjoe
True Classic
Wondering if you've been thinking yet about attachment methods for the dash-to-dash components/panels. I was assuming perhaps aluminum reinforcements? Having no experience in this area I can't visualize what will make the most sense. Looking at your lower dash construction, I'd have to assume it will be broken into several panels to allow for service access under the dash?
If you make the binnacle a separate part, would you still glass that as one piece with the dash, then cut & reinforce the joining area, or make it separately from the start (once overall shaping is done in foam)? Trying to visualize the work flow & process involved.
For my cluster area, I will likely use riv-nuts in the binnacle frame for the (aluminum plate) cluster facia to screw to, since the factory versions used exposed hardware, I don't see any reason to deviate from that.
If you make the binnacle a separate part, would you still glass that as one piece with the dash, then cut & reinforce the joining area, or make it separately from the start (once overall shaping is done in foam)? Trying to visualize the work flow & process involved.
For my cluster area, I will likely use riv-nuts in the binnacle frame for the (aluminum plate) cluster facia to screw to, since the factory versions used exposed hardware, I don't see any reason to deviate from that.
Clark
True Classic
I really haven't given it all that much thought yet. It is possible I will be making them separate pieces and I would imagine that screws will be involved. Other than that....... The vents came in and I cut the holes for them. 3 inch diameter just as I had hoped. Although it might be tricky getting the sizing just right given that fiberglass and the faux leather covering are going to take up some space. I bought the vents used on evil bay so they are getting a good wash in the upper rack of the dish washer at the moment
Dr.Jeff
True Classic
Wives love when we do things like this.
motoTrooper
True Classic
Dishwashers do make great parts cleaners, I mean to have a old used one out back someday for just such need but haven't figured out how to not make it an eyesore.
dllubin
Don
I just pulled an old electric range out of my basement so that I could perform the heat treatment steps for the paint I used on my headers. A dishwasher would come in real handy for cleaning all the sheet metal, etc. that I removed from the bottom of the engine compartment. Some of that stuff would need a machine with a good pot scrubber cycle. I was actually thinking of repairing my pressure washer (needs a new pump) to get that stuff cleaned up without getting as dirty as I have been with a cans of degreaser, wire brushes, scrapers, and countless rolls of paper towels.
Dr.Jeff
True Classic
Also good for doing your own powder coating with one of the "home powder coat kits".
A dishwasher is similar to the engine/parts cleaning machines that have replaced hot tanks (now that the chemicals used in hot tanks are not legal). These industrial washers use a water based cleaning agent that could be used in a dishwasher, but the key to them is high heat. So a dishwasher would need to be connected to a water heater with high temperatures and lots of capacity. The best option might be a tank-less heater located next to the dishwasher.
dllubin
Don
Jeff:
It is interesting that you mention powder coating because the parts I painted ended up looking like they were powder coated after the heat treatment cycle. I used the Rustoleum 2,000F primer and paint. Before heating, it looked like normal black spray paint. After the heat treatment (250F, 400F, 600F cycles) the appearance of the paint changed dramatically - almost as if it melted and then hardened (like powder coating) with a slightly mottled look. I was originally concerned that a kitchen stove would not make it to 600F but that turned out not to be an issue. More of a concern was the temperature gradient from bottom (hottest) to top. I kept an eye on things with an IR thermometer and ended up riding the on-off switch to keep the temperature in about a 50F window.
I had a condo a few years back that used a tankless heater not only for hot water, but for heating as well. For just hot water, you would normally set it for ~120F to prevent scalding. For heating, a mixing valve allowed you to maintain ~120F for the water while the hot water for the radiators could be cranked up to ~170F. So, a tankless heater with high temperature capability would be great for the "dirty parts" dishwasher.
Don
dcioccarelli
Dominic Cioccarelli
I thought the plan was to keep this area open? Is the highlighted section of Styrofoam just temporary?
Dom.
Clark
True Classic
I removed the standard bracing that was in the center of the car - true. After so many people warned me not to remove it I think it best to put something back in its place - hence the highlighted area. I wanted to mock up the console before I started welding something back in so I knew how far back the new bracing would be. A compromise really. I would rather have it wide open personally. That being said this new arrangement gives close to 10 inches more knee room than stock.
Dr.Jeff
True Classic
"After so many people warned me not to remove it"
Not to 'rock the boat' here (I've never done that, have I ?), but if you are building a "custom vehicle" for your own pleasure and your own use, to fulfill your own personal dreams/desires/goals, then who cares what everyone else tells you what can and cannot be done. If we allow such stifling of creativity we would still be in the dark ages.
Removing the bracing from the center of the dash/console area will decrease the chassis stiffness, agreed. But what are your intentions for the car? Will it be a track only vehicle where maximal stiffness is paramount? Will it be daily driver (i.e. your only source of transportation) where ultimate longevity and handling is vital? Will transport your baby to pre-school everyday where the utmost in safety is the first concern (if so you are a fool to think the X1/9 is your best option for that)? Is it to be a show only vehicle where no rules apply and anything goes and stiffness has absolutely no role? Or will it be something in between some of these options? In other words, if removing the center bracing is "o.k. or not" is only important in YOUR case for YOUR intended project applications. I assure you, it isn't the same for every application.
The point is everyone has different intentions for their X. And yours will differ for everyone else. So think about the goals you have for your car and decide if the style of the interior is more important (to YOU) than the reduction of structural rigidity encountered by this change. It may or may not be...that is ONLY up to YOU. If you don't have the knowledge level to determine that answer, then do more homework before making a decision. But don't just arbitrarily decide based the opinions of others who don't have your individual goals/applications in mind. [Please note, I am NOT questioning the 'expert opinions' of others by any means. I'm simply urging the creator to make his own decisions]
And please don't get me wrong. I'm not advocating the deconstruction of the factory's design, nor am I bringing into question the merits of the factory design (I can already feel the backlash). But you have already crossed that point by ripping out the dash to building a custom one, so it is now open territory to do whatever you please...good or bad, that is up to you and only you. It could easily be argued that you have already compromised the factory's engineered integrity of the design. That was your decision, so don't stop there. Look at some examples of custom builds, they don't follow the rules. Does that make them right? To the owner it does, to the rest...well I'll let you finish this sentence.
Sorry in advance if I've offended any of my loved and respected fellow members, I truly do not intend to. I merely want to offer the creator of this unique (and wonderful) project to do whatever he desires to do. Please try to keep an open mind for the artistic development of a unique project that is cutting new ground. It may well turn out to be far superior to the original design, or my turn out to be utter 'shat'. At least you have a dream, don't loose site of it.
Not to 'rock the boat' here (I've never done that, have I ?), but if you are building a "custom vehicle" for your own pleasure and your own use, to fulfill your own personal dreams/desires/goals, then who cares what everyone else tells you what can and cannot be done. If we allow such stifling of creativity we would still be in the dark ages.
Removing the bracing from the center of the dash/console area will decrease the chassis stiffness, agreed. But what are your intentions for the car? Will it be a track only vehicle where maximal stiffness is paramount? Will it be daily driver (i.e. your only source of transportation) where ultimate longevity and handling is vital? Will transport your baby to pre-school everyday where the utmost in safety is the first concern (if so you are a fool to think the X1/9 is your best option for that)? Is it to be a show only vehicle where no rules apply and anything goes and stiffness has absolutely no role? Or will it be something in between some of these options? In other words, if removing the center bracing is "o.k. or not" is only important in YOUR case for YOUR intended project applications. I assure you, it isn't the same for every application.
The point is everyone has different intentions for their X. And yours will differ for everyone else. So think about the goals you have for your car and decide if the style of the interior is more important (to YOU) than the reduction of structural rigidity encountered by this change. It may or may not be...that is ONLY up to YOU. If you don't have the knowledge level to determine that answer, then do more homework before making a decision. But don't just arbitrarily decide based the opinions of others who don't have your individual goals/applications in mind. [Please note, I am NOT questioning the 'expert opinions' of others by any means. I'm simply urging the creator to make his own decisions]
And please don't get me wrong. I'm not advocating the deconstruction of the factory's design, nor am I bringing into question the merits of the factory design (I can already feel the backlash). But you have already crossed that point by ripping out the dash to building a custom one, so it is now open territory to do whatever you please...good or bad, that is up to you and only you. It could easily be argued that you have already compromised the factory's engineered integrity of the design. That was your decision, so don't stop there. Look at some examples of custom builds, they don't follow the rules. Does that make them right? To the owner it does, to the rest...well I'll let you finish this sentence.
Sorry in advance if I've offended any of my loved and respected fellow members, I truly do not intend to. I merely want to offer the creator of this unique (and wonderful) project to do whatever he desires to do. Please try to keep an open mind for the artistic development of a unique project that is cutting new ground. It may well turn out to be far superior to the original design, or my turn out to be utter 'shat'. At least you have a dream, don't loose site of it.
motoTrooper
True Classic
The doctor makes a fair point. And really, I hope I haven't sounded like a wet blanket about modding because that's kind of what I'm always doing ALL the time. But others have suggested stuff that made me think deeper on what I'm doing from a perspective I hadn't looked from and it will probably keep me mostly alive when I take that first corner after the sonic boom dissipates.
Me, with the Scorpion with a roof structure, I will be adding in bracing in the form of an Oh-****-bar next to the passenger seat since I don't think my wife will get in without one being there.
Me, with the Scorpion with a roof structure, I will be adding in bracing in the form of an Oh-****-bar next to the passenger seat since I don't think my wife will get in without one being there.
Dr.Jeff
True Classic
Thanks Christopher. I'm not suggesting any of the advice offered was incorrect or that it should not have been offered. Quite the opposite, I feel it is important to share the experience, safety tips, or other bits of valuable input we can. To that point I'm sure the original poster of this thread got the message; his modifications are changing the vehicle's normal structure in what might be an adverse way (depending on the intended future application of the car).
But is that necessarily a bad thing in all cases? As I stated that depends, but certainly not necessarily. I would never want to stifle anyone's creativity, especially in the realm of customization. Which by my definition "customization" means to do something not within the norm, to do things different from everyone else, to explore new ground with out of the box ideas - no matter how wild, unconventional, or otherwise beyond the scope of what's considered acceptable practice. To me the creation of a totally custom dash, from scratch, that has no relation to the original design or structure, is the very essence of a "custom". Sure, many have fitted an old Desoto dash into a old Chevy pick-up cab, or the likes. But has anyone here ever made an original design dash from scratch for the X1/9? I doubt it. For that I say kudos to Clark and encourage him to go full throttle into his own dream design. Hope everyone gets the point without any offense.
If you look at my profile page and review a sample of my prior posts, it is obvious I come from a "custom vehicle" background. During the course of the automotive business I've owned/operated over the years, the principle focus has been building customized vehicles from mild to wild. And I contend a heavily modified car can be created while still being safe and fully functional; it might require additional engineering and development, but it can be done. Fully realizing that is not everyone's cup of tea, I equally respect those who build faithfully original restorations to exacting factory specifications. We are all unique, as should be our rides.
Love and respect to everyone here.
But is that necessarily a bad thing in all cases? As I stated that depends, but certainly not necessarily. I would never want to stifle anyone's creativity, especially in the realm of customization. Which by my definition "customization" means to do something not within the norm, to do things different from everyone else, to explore new ground with out of the box ideas - no matter how wild, unconventional, or otherwise beyond the scope of what's considered acceptable practice. To me the creation of a totally custom dash, from scratch, that has no relation to the original design or structure, is the very essence of a "custom". Sure, many have fitted an old Desoto dash into a old Chevy pick-up cab, or the likes. But has anyone here ever made an original design dash from scratch for the X1/9? I doubt it. For that I say kudos to Clark and encourage him to go full throttle into his own dream design. Hope everyone gets the point without any offense.
If you look at my profile page and review a sample of my prior posts, it is obvious I come from a "custom vehicle" background. During the course of the automotive business I've owned/operated over the years, the principle focus has been building customized vehicles from mild to wild. And I contend a heavily modified car can be created while still being safe and fully functional; it might require additional engineering and development, but it can be done. Fully realizing that is not everyone's cup of tea, I equally respect those who build faithfully original restorations to exacting factory specifications. We are all unique, as should be our rides.
Love and respect to everyone here.
lookforjoe
True Classic
I for one am excited about this project & Clarks' process/progress so far. I like the idea of the open center area, however I think the 'flow' from the dash to the tunnel works better with a connecting panel of some sort, which makes practical sense in terms of placement for radio / heater controls, etc, which is where I will likely put mine. Just the fact that it has been substantially pushed forward makes a big difference, whether or not any reinforcement is added behind it. With mine, having the AC box, I'm not sure how much space I will gain. I'm thinking maybe of using a universal compact AC/heater box (Vintage Air?) and ditching all the factory controls, etc.
I like the idea and the 'feel' of a raised tunnel cover flowing into the dash, it gives a more enveloped cockpit vibe to the interior. Since the driver is the one that matters here, that makes perfect sense to me Also will provide more area for switches, etc., that are currently in the console.
I like the idea and the 'feel' of a raised tunnel cover flowing into the dash, it gives a more enveloped cockpit vibe to the interior. Since the driver is the one that matters here, that makes perfect sense to me
Also will provide more area for switches, etc., that are currently in the console.