Making of a 308 interior

[Clark]

"After so many people warned me not to remove it"

Not to 'rock the boat' here
.... who cares what everyone else tells you what can and cannot be done.
.... But what are your intentions for the car?

Hey Doc,

You make a really good point - and I appreciate the spirit in which you give it too (Love and respect to everyone here.)
To answer your question I plan on driving the car a round trip of 55 miles to and from work about 3 times a week on the nice summer days. My daughter has been working on the car with me and wants to be driven to her wedding when she gets married and after I pass on wants it to be her vehicle until she passes it on. So I am conscious of other family members driving the car in the future - hence I am concerned about safety too. I am trying to be mostly true to the ferrari 308 interior as much as I can. If I need to make changes like connecting the center console to the dash over safety concerns that's ok as long as it works relatively well with the original 308/328 look. The biggest thing I don't want with my "artistic development of a unique project" is to create something that makes people want to puke!

 

[kmead]

I think it’s the owners prerogative to do anything they damn well please. They can ignore any suggestions or advice to their hearts content.

I know I have been considering a mod to one of my cars which I am sure will be anathema to many here, but it seems like a fun thing to do. (Don’t know if it’s feasibe yet but looking into it). As it is my car and I will likely own it until I don’t own anything or the remains of Cretaceous period plant matter has run out, it need only please me.

None of my cars are pristine and likely never will be but they will be loved and well used while I still can. Which ultimately is all that is important, I have seen enough cars in museums...they never look happy.

No disrespect meant to those who have done an amazing job of bringing their cars to high levels of OE finish, I love those too.

Oh and I do really like this project and how it is developing.

 

[Dr.Jeff]

If I need to make changes like connecting the center console to the dash over safety concerns that's ok

Based on your intended application, then yes it sounds like you will need to consider at least some of the structural aspects with these changes. However keep an open mind on how that might be accomplished; it does not necessarily mean adding a vertical brace back between the center tunnel and the middle of the dash. Consider some options; just off the top of my head, perhaps a tubular hoop across the back side of the dash to tie the entire dash-structure into the side-structures of the unibody, or add additional bracing along the rocker panels the way manufacturers do when designing a convertible from a hard-top, or under-carriage reinforcements like the "frame connectors" muscle car builders add to stiffen the chassis. There is always more than one way to engineer things. The method chosen by Fiat (or any car maker) is often a compromise with things like cost, manufacturing processes, existing designs, material availability, etc., and not necessarily the 'best' way to do it....and certainly not the only way.

I hope my earlier "rant" did not come off too strong. I really did not intend to imply that anyone had done anything wrong or said anything wrong. It was just starting to sound like you were going to compromise on your intended concept based on the inputs of others (which are valid inputs, no question). I only wanted to encourage you to follow your dream with this project, and try to think creatively about how to make it work rather than make compromises. I think Karl's last post has captured my sentiment (and perhaps stated it in a more appropriate way).

 

[lookforjoe]

Started looking at fiberglass mat - different people seem to favor different weight mat for this type of work. I'm curious what you are planning to work with? Seems like .75 oz or at most 1oz weight chooped strand seems to be most popular.

 

[Dr.Jeff]

placement for radio / heater controls, etc

I like the idea and the 'feel' of a raised tunnel cover flowing into the dash, it gives a more enveloped cockpit vibe to the interior.

I agree with both comments; I like the lower placement of the radio and heater controls like on some early exotics where they are down below (not on the main dash), and I like the elevated center tunnel/console...also like some early exotics. Perhaps you can have both by placing the radio/heater controls on the raised center tunnel/console (laying flat, facing up)? And the center console does not necessarily need to connect to the dash to do this. You can retain the open space and mount things down in the middle tunnel, separate from the dash. The only potential draw back I see to a raised tunnel idea is it might make the interior space even more tight/crowded than it already is (which is a lot).

Perhaps not the best examples, but a few thought-boosters to look at:

I could not find any good examples but there were a couple 60's-70's vehicles with the radio mounted in the center console, sitting vertically and sideways...something like where the red outline is here:

 

[Dave80GTSi]

Check the radios in both a Pantera and a Ferrari 308 GT4. Both were "sideways".

If you need any pictures of something specific, let me know - I own a 1980 308 GTSi (thus my screen name here on this site).

Picture is me and my car at a Mid-Ohio track day.

Thanks - DM

 

[lookforjoe]

Check the radios in both a Pantera and a Ferrari 308 GT4. Both were "sideways".

If you need any pictures of something specific, let me know - I own a 1980 308 GTSi (thus my screen name here on this site).

Picture is me and my car at a Mid-Ohio track day.

Thanks - DM

Yes! Need various angle shots of the later dash , so I can figure out overall form & contour- also tunnel area. Please

 

[Dr.Jeff]

Check the radios in both a Pantera and a Ferrari 308 GT4. Both were "sideways".

Dave, the Pantera radio was sideways but not mounted down in the lower tunnel/center console. It was up on the dash/upper console (as was early Corvettes). Nice looking dash either way:

I recall the 308 having the radio mounted normally, horizontal on the dash? It might have changed for different years, please post a photo.

 

[Dave80GTSi]

I recall the 308 having the radio mounted normally, horizontal on the dash? It might have changed for different years, please post a photo.

The 4-seater GT4 dash design is quite different, for some reason, than the GTS / GTB 2-seaters.

Picture of a random GT4 via a Google search. Note the radio.

 

[Dave80GTSi]

Yes! Need various angle shots of the later dash , so I can figure out overall form & contour- also tunnel area. Please

Certainly, happy to help. Here's a couple, for starters. If this is not what you are after, circle the areas of most interest and I will see what I can do.

If it matters, note that my 1980 model is unique in that the pair of console gauges are oriented top-to-bottom. The 1981 and later years had them side-by-side. There's already a picture of this configuration in the thread above here (the picture has a red MR2 in the background)

 

[lookforjoe]

Certainly, happy to help. Here's a couple, for starters. If this is not what you are after, circle the areas of most interest and I will see what I can do.

Aha - I didn't realize the +2 was different than others - it's the +2 style layout I was choosing to go with. like the one you linked before. Clark may have need of specifics - his design is like yours.

 

[bjwhite]

Aha - I didn't realize the +2 was different than others - it's the +2 style layout I was choosing to go with. like the one you linked before. Clark may have need of specifics - his design is like yours.

and also a Gandini designed Bertone car. Keep it in the family.

 

[Clark]

Started looking at fiberglass mat - different people seem to favor different weight mat for this type of work. I'm curious what you are planning to work with? Seems like .75 oz or at most 1oz weight chooped strand seems to be most popular.

Hey Hussein, great question - and I'm glad you asked because I haven't even started thinking about it yet. I'm still at the stage of sourcing parts for the gauge cluster and such. I have only used the thicker stuff previously (maybe 6 oz and the like - Bondo sells it buy the square yard I think ) but that sounds too thick to get it to fit the type of angles I will have here.

Today I spent some time getting the end of the dash to fit against the drivers side door. One of the difficulties in keeping the design close to the ferrari 308 interior is the difference in widths of the two vehicles. The 308 is 68 inches wide while the x19 is not even 62 inches. Given that the gauges are still the same size and in the same place that leaves 3 inches shorter per side. It doesn't sound like much but it's leaving things a bit more cramped than I had hoped. Its getting difficult to keep the flowing shape of the interior with so little room. It will all work out but it would have been a bit nicer to have more space.

At the same time as doing the dash I am working on the center console. Its coming along but I'm also seeing the differences between the two vehicles there too.....

After that I'm planning to move onto the doors. Question: Why do people butcher the speaker holes in the doors? It looks like they cut the doors open with a pair of side cuts.... With all the twisted metal in there I'm surprised that the windows even open. YUK!!!!

 

[Dr.Jeff]

One way to make the 308 design fit into the smaller X is to reduce all of it proportionally. That way everything fits with the same ratios / shapes / contours / etc. only smaller.

Funny what you said about door speaker holes. Every vehicle I've built had the same butcher hack job previously done; with rough jagged cuts, bent up projections sticking out, rusted edges, you name it. The door panels (cards) also seem to get the "anything but round" cut job through them.

 

[lookforjoe]

I was wondering how you would make the 308 style armrests functional & flow up into the dash, given the narrower body. Do you have any detail pics of them relative to the driver? Curious how much they actually protrude from the door surface at the widest point, and where the 'grab' area is?. EDIT - the other thing I would consider adding if going with this style armrest/dash flow are demister vents at the top of the armrest by the 1/4 glass, like my Volvos have had since the 90's. The door mirror base & lever placement may make that non-functional though..

3" less means I will have to reduce the angled side panels of the +2 style - looking at pics of that, the outer edge of the binnacle runs much closer to the "A" pillar than your version. Maybe I should think about a combined version that uses the overall cleaner dash top lines of your version, but with the binnacle I prefer. Having the armrests flow into the dash definitely ties it all together better....

The indicated recess ahead of the eBrake lever will be to allow grab access I presume - is it a very angular cutout (as it seems) or will it actually rise somewhat either side of the actual lever? If the former, it seems that it will be very thin at that point..

One way to make the 308 design fit into the smaller X is to reduce all of it proportionally. That way everything fits with the same ratios / shapes / contours / etc. only smaller.

Can't really reduce the binnacle dimensions though, as Clark said, the gauges still need the same space, and the cowl is pretty slender as it is, no?

 

[lookforjoe]

The vents came in and I cut the holes for them. 3 inch diameter just as I had hoped. Although it might be tricky getting the sizing just right given that fiberglass and the faux leather covering are going to take up some space. I bought the vents used on evil bay so they are getting a good wash in the upper rack of the dish washer at the moment

The ones I found (F150) version just arrived, however they are closer to 3.5" OD at the top flange - what model were yours intended for? Are they 3" OD sleeves (which mine are) or did you mean 3" largest (top lip) measurement?

 

[Dr.Jeff]

the other thing I would consider adding if going with this style armrest/dash flow are demister vents at the top of the armrest by the 1/4 glass

I also like the style of the arm rests that come up to blend with the dash. Adding a defrost vent in them would seem incredibly difficult to do, tying into the dash vent system. And I think it would require the armrests to be even thicker (to accommodate the vent duct), in what's already a tight fit.

 

[kmead]

With an AC based Niner air distribution system, one could create a hollow channel in the armrest with vents and have it mate to an opening in the end of the dash panel end. It would like require the mitre he already has started for the armrest to wrap over to meet the dash panel end. The fact that the shell of the armrest after fiberglassing it could be hollow would give you the airway. BMW and others have done something like this.

 

[Dr.Jeff]

Karl, although that arrangement is common on production vehicles, it seems to me that it would be difficult to make everything align, seal, and flow properly (in a custom made dash) to be of any use...just a LOT of extra work for little effect. I've owned several vehicles with it and never found much use, and that's on production cars. However I've also never lived in a cold climate so maybe it has more effect elsewhere. But this is only my initial impression, and I'd certainly like to see it tried. Hope desire and creativity can overcome the difficulties.

 

[DanielForest]

I could confirm it's really useful in cold climates. But who's going to be driving an X19 when it's freezing outside!