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Manifold flanges

Discussion in 'Discussion Forum' started by Dr.Jeff, Jul 30, 2017.

  1. kmead

    kmead True Classic

    Location:
    Grand Rapids, MI
    Looks like the file I worked from is less than perfect, perhaps some of the problem is scaling in the translation. I must say I like the way the parts look as objects though it seems the bottom rib that connects the outer exhaust ports could be a bit larger to make it better.

    Before you drilled out the holes for the fasteners were the holes concentric with the head holes or were they also outboard on the outer ones and inboard on the inner ones? I am just trying to understand is the base file off or is it happening as I translated the PDF into a DXF using Illustrator. It may also be why the circles are segmented though it seems unlikely, it may have been in the base file and the way it was created.

    Do you run software that can look at more than just a DXF or is that its only format? At work we use Autodesk Fusion (in the design group, engineering uses ProE) which can output a number of alternative file types and has a CAM module (the free version might be worth looking at as our model shop just changed over to Fusion for the CAM side of the program).

    In any case thank you for trying the part and burning (literally) a chunk of your steel sheet.

    Karl
     
  2. bpimm

    bpimm Brian Pimm

    Location:
    Washougal, WA
    The file is not far off but I think the transition to PDF and back probably did some damage to the scale. making the bottom rib wider would be an easy change once I have the 3D model. I haven't done much with importing files to work on I have always designed the part to start with, I'm hoping I can import the outline of the flange and then locate the holes in it. I can jig up the head on my mill and use the DRO to measure the hole locations and that should be as accurate as we need, recreating the outline of the flange would time consuming so hopefully I can come up with a way to use the one you converted.

    I didn't notice which way the holes were off before I drilled them, I should have looked closer...

    Here are the file types I can import to work with, I use Alibre Design which is a 3D parametric modeling program, 3D systems bought out Alibre and the new product is called Geomagic. The old Alibre is not up to the standards of the new stuff but I own it and don't want to have to learn a new platform now, Alibre does what I need and is actually quite easy and fast to put out a part.
    20170807_133642.jpg

    I may look into Fusion in the future, I just don't have time now, to many projects running concurrently. My machine shop is hopefully my retirement income so anything I can do to create parts people want at an affordable price is good for all of us besides I was going to do this soon anyway.

    I have the head i borrowed from Jeff cleaned up and all but 1 stud removed, after 2 days of heat and pb blaster it finally gave up and broke off.:(

    I have a clutch and timing belt job on a subaru to get out this week and the inlaws are in town but I'll get that stud out and get it measured soon.
     
    mkmini and kmead like this.
  3. kmead

    kmead True Classic

    Location:
    Grand Rapids, MI
    Thanks. Looks like most any file will work, Fusion can output most of those.

    I will play with the original to see if it can be salvaged. I will also make a parametric part that I can easily adjust the various parameters of the holes and then let the outside outline float based on the various holes for fasteners and port diameters. Once I set it up that way any adjustments will be easy to perform without signficant effort or redrawing.

    Karl
     
  4. Dr.Jeff

    Dr.Jeff True Classic

    Location:
    Sin City
    I pressed "1" for English, but I still can't understand a word of what you guys are saying.
     
    mkmini likes this.
  5. bpimm

    bpimm Brian Pimm

    Location:
    Washougal, WA
    I got the head on the mill and removed the broken studs, the 1 I broke and the other 2 that were already broken. I used a 1/4" end mill to plunge through the remaining stud then moved it in .002" increments both ways on each axis until I cut through to the minimum diameter of the stud, then I could use a pick to get the end of the thread loose and peal it out.

    First pic is the whole thread out and the second is the thread starting to come out.
    20170808_173448.jpg
    20170808_173320.jpg
     
    PaulD and kmead like this.
  6. kmead

    kmead True Classic

    Location:
    Grand Rapids, MI
    That is some 'fine' machine work :p
     
  7. Dr.Jeff

    Dr.Jeff True Classic

    Location:
    Sin City
    Anyone know about Lada's? I know they began as pretty much a copy of Fiat's, but I think the engines are different? Are the manifold/head interface dimensions the same as our SOHC's? I found these flanges for Lada applications:
    Exhaust...
    s-l300 (1).jpg

    Intake...
    Lada 2108 intake flange.png

    What's the odds they are the same?
     
  8. mkmini

    mkmini Daily Driver

    Location:
    Latvia
    I wouldn't suggest You anything from Ladas even if it is exactly same part. Of course there could be a good quality spare parts.

    But history shows that in soviet union everything and a specially all cars what was made, are in a very poorly quality.All parts which was ok, was assembled in cars. And all factory bracks later were sold as spare parts.

    I have hade a lot of bad experiences with what has been made in Russia.
     
  9. Dr.Jeff

    Dr.Jeff True Classic

    Location:
    Sin City
    Thanks for the feedback. I have heard that about Lada factory made items. However these flanges are not a factory made part, they are custom cut steel plates made by a after-market company. Do you find the same quality issues with this type of after-market or craftsman made stuff?
     
  10. Ladas used the 124 engine, so the twin cam.

    Dom.
     
  11. Dr.Jeff

    Dr.Jeff True Classic

    Location:
    Sin City
    Some models did however they have others that use a SOHC that appears to be very similar to the one we have. According to Wiki their SOHC engines are not direct clones but are based on the same basic Fiat SOHC design. Therefore it is possible that some accessories will fit. For example, if the heads have the same port and manifold mounting configuration as ours then those manifold flanges I showed should work. Take a look at the pictures I posted, they don't look like the 124's, because they fit a SOHC engine. Hoping someone with Lada experience will know about the manifolds for sure.
     
  12. mkmini

    mkmini Daily Driver

    Location:
    Latvia
    I can't deny my stereotypes abot RUS manufacturers, but they are based on my own experiences, and none of them is good.

    Could You please send me a link who sells those flanges, I could try to find out will them fit to 128 engine from LADA enthusiast's forum in my country.

    ....
     
    Dr.Jeff likes this.
  13. Dr.Jeff

    Dr.Jeff True Classic

    Location:
    Sin City
    Experience is the best way to learn.

    Good video, I don't need to understand the language to see the obvious quality issues. But I must say, aside from the quality of the materials and build I kind of like the style of it..funky old world design (I like odd-ball stuff).

    Thanks for your offer to look into the products. I will send you a message with the info through your profile page. :)
     

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