Midwest front anti sway bar

Are you referring to new radius rods with the universal style bushings (like in your earlier pic in post #50)? Or are you still using the factory rods and donut style bushings?

I am fixing all the OEM parts first. The brackets and the adjustable radius rod will come once I figure out the type and size of the bolt through bushing. I am doing some of this type of work on our ACR srt4 track car and will be sourcing the same parts. But the end result will most likely look like those aftermarket BMW ones I posted. I really don't think the new designs other that sway bar mount will make that much of a difference and all the other parts will just make adjustment much easier and better quality bushings. The car today went from feeling fragile to planted. Night and day with just all updated bushings.
 
Are you referring to new radius rods with the universal style bushings (like in your earlier pic in post #50)? Or are you still using the factory rods and donut style bushings?
here are the 4 different bushings that I have printed for a car with the swaybar.

1685408821350.png
 
did not even think of those until I did the other bushings. Mine are in perfect shape. TPU may be a good option but I would think Nylon two piece snap together would be better there.
There is one source that makes them in a two-piece, snap together design. But I kind of think a one-piece design might be best though. I'm sure there must be a material for the 3D printer that can work for that. ;)
 
Have you also printed new isolator sleeves for the radius rod forward mounts?
View attachment 73833
Now wonder if these to anything other than hold the rod centered before to donuts are fully compressed. The cup washers and the mount would compress the donuts evenly so the compression would also be tightening on the spacer and the lips of the cups so once compressed would the isolator be doing anything?
 
Now wonder if these to anything other than hold the rod centered before to donuts are fully compressed. The cup washers and the mount would compress the donuts evenly so the compression would also be tightening on the spacer and the lips of the cups so once compressed would the isolator be doing anything?
those nylon bushes are to keep the steel inner tube away from the steel mounting, otherwise they touch / rattle and wear

The original nylon bush is in fact a two piece snap together item.

SteveC
 
The original nylon bush is in fact a two piece snap together item.

SteveC

In the immortal words of Ian Tyson...." but we've been through this a hundred times or more" .....bonus points to anyone who knows what song that line came from....

NO........the original nylon bush is a one-piece item. Fiat # 4290680. As proof....see a page from the factory parts manual below:

x19 suspension parts diagram.jpg


I have seen many official Fiat parts books...they all say the same. Just google that part # and you get plenty of pics of that part. Indeed a one-piece grommet. And I have seen many X1/9s come apart...they all have that one-piece grommet in there.

Every Fiat parts vendor I have seen....MWB, Obert, Eurosport. etc, etc....ALL agree it is...and always was...a one piece grommet !!!

I think perhaps...some early 128 sedan or something....used a similar grommet where the sway bar joined the control arm....and that grommet was a 2 piece design. So perhaps Steve is confusing it with that......
 
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nope, the parts diagram isn't an assembly diagram, it only shows one of the rubber donut bushes as well, even though we all know there were two.

Look closely at the picture and it shows a bush with a single lip, not a H shape.

128 sedans use a one piece bush.

SteveC
 
I haven't seen any for sale for a while, I have a pair I was saving as a pattern to get them 3D printed....

View attachment 73848

I haven't seen any for sale for a while, I have a pair I was saving as a pattern to get them 3D printed....

View attachment 73848


Are those the snap together parts? could you take some measurements for me? I will try to test with different materials. I have a feeling some of the harder TPU materials would work. A bit more flexible that nylon and better wear.
 
Ah.....NO.....just look in the parts book where it lists the quantity required per car....it shows 2 per car....NOT 4 if your theory was correct...

AND......look at this pic of an original NOS genuine Fiat 4290680


The original part is indeed a 1 piece H-shaped grommet......
 
the originals are a very hard nylon, there is no way you could compress the lip OD to fit into the minor OD, that's why it's made in two halves.

I could take some measurements, send me a PM

I can tell you the inner hole isnt straight sided either, to allow the steel sleeve to pivot, it's smallest right in the middle (when the two halves are together) and flares out slightly to the outer side... I dont think the reproduction bushes have this feature.

SteveC
 
the originals are a very hard nylon, there is no way you could compress the lip OD to fit into the minor OD, that's why it's made in two halves.

I could take some measurements, send me a PM

I can tell you the inner hole isnt straight sided either, to allow the steel sleeve to pivot, it's smallest right in the middle (when the two halves are together) and flares out slightly to the outer side... I dont think the reproduction bushes have this feature.

SteveC

I will PM you. If you can take the measurements of the smallest inside diameter and the largest inside diameter also then I could put a radius taper in there.
 
I have to side with Doug, I believe the original isolators were one-piece on the X. At least as far as everything I've seen, both in terms of actual parts on X's and information collected from various sources. As Doug said, perhaps Fiat once used a two-piece design on other models? Regardless of what happened in the past, I'm of the opinion a one-piece design is better for this application.

As for the question if they are even necessary. Several members have reported they experienced rattling and squeaks, only to discover those isolators were either missing or badly damaged. And replacing them solved the issues. So I'd say yes, they are necessary.

This is where I'll also add my personal take on this trailing rod pivot being a poor design. :)
 
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I have to side with Doug, I believe the original isolators were one-piece on the X. At least as far as everything I've seen, both in terms of actual parts on X's and information collected from various sources. As Doug said, perhaps Fiat once used a two-piece design on other models? Regardless of what happened in the past, I'm of the opinion a one-piece design is better for this application.

As for the question if they are even necessary. Several members have reported they experienced rattling and squeaks, only to discover those isolators were either missing or badly damaged. And replacing them solved the issues. So I'd say yes, they are necessary.

This is where I'll also add my personal take on this trailing rod pivot being a poor design. :)

Do you have a one piece set that you can take measurements of? could look at trying both one and two piece. Two piece in a HDPE would be a really good permanent fix. but TPU in a one piece would be a close second.
 
the originals are a very hard nylon, there is no way you could compress the lip OD to fit into the minor OD, that's why it's made in two halves.
Did you not see this pic of an original 4290680 ?? Of course it fits and is just soft enough to pop into the hole in the radius rod bracket. Sorry...you are just not making any sense.....This IS the grommet all X1/9s came with......check ANY parts book......check with ANY Fiat parts vendor...check with ANY X1/9 owner who has taken these bits apart....check the many posts on this subject on this forum....IT IS A ONE-PIECE GROMMET.....

Geez.....even Dr. Jeff agrees with me...and that it a first.... :rolleyes:


fiat 4290680.jpg


I can tell you the inner hole isnt straight sided either, to allow the steel sleeve to pivot, it's smallest right in the middle (when the two halves are together) and flares out slightly to the outer side...

SteveC

Of course the inner hole isn't straight. As it has to allow for the sleeve to pivot.
I dont think the reproduction bushes have this feature.

SteveC

How can you possibly say this ?? Tell the truth now...have you ever actually seen and examined one of the reproduction grommets ? I didn't think so.....

As the guy who designed one of the popular available reproduction grommets...I can assure you that - at least mine - certainly have this feature.......
 
Did you not see this pic of an original 4290680 ?? Of course it fits and is just soft enough to pop into the hole in the radius rod bracket. Sorry...you are just not making any sense.....This IS the grommet all X1/9s came with......check ANY parts book......check with ANY Fiat parts vendor...check with ANY X1/9 owner who has taken these bits apart....check the many posts on this subject on this forum....IT IS A ONE-PIECE GROMMET.....

Geez.....even Dr. Jeff agrees with me...and that it a first.... :rolleyes:


View attachment 73853



Of course the inner hole isn't straight. As it has to allow for the sleeve to pivot.


How can you possibly say this ?? Tell the truth now...have you ever actually seen and examined one of the reproduction grommets ? I didn't think so.....

As the guy who designed one of the popular available reproduction grommets...I can assure you that - at least mine - certainly have this feature.......
Are your reproductions available?
 
The way I view that particular installation (with the MWB kit), the urethane "pivot" mounts really aren't pivots at all. They are located on the track rods toward the front (red circle), and the sway bar is connected to the control arms toward the rear (yellow circle). The track rods are firmly attached to the control arms just adjacent to the sway bar (green circle):
View attachment 59152

Therefore effectively the sway bar is attached to the track rods in two places, essentially making the left and right track rods joined. So the forward sway bar mounts (red) do not act like most installation approaches, where it pivots off the frame (chassis). Here they could be solid mounts and work the same. This is done on the rear of some FWD vehicles where the rear suspension has a "beam" from side to side:
View attachment 59151

I'm not saying the MWB setup is wrong, and I don't know how much difference any other mounting arrangement would make. I'm only pointing out how I view them.
It is not like a beam axle. It still allows the wheels to move independently. Any sway bar limits the independent movement somewhat. With the sway bar mounted to the radius arms the actual mounts have to flex to allow movement as they are rotating on a different radius. Unusual setup but could be effective. It would take a thicker bar than a typical sway bar to compensate for the flex in this setup.
 
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