MSD streetfire ignition box opinions

ghostdancing

True Classic
i'm intrigued about this magic box:

http://www.ignitionproducts.eu/en/msd-street-fire-street-fire-ignition-box-with-rev.html

i now that the factory MSD got a good reputation in the USA V8 racing scene..the multiple spark features does worth the money requested or is just a fancy trick to catch buyers?

i currently run the stock marelli point distributor and had a cheap capacity discarge box that made a noticeable difference (smooth running, better acceleration), but recently i disconnected it because it started to go bad, so i'm looking for a better unit, still retaining the back-to-point possibility (so i can drive back home if electronics goes bad)
 
I know that a version of MSD had been used quite successfully with our cars. Don't go back to points. There's no benefit. If talking the MSD and supporting accessories is more then you want to take on, at this time, just swap to the stock electronic system from a 79< car.
 
eastep: of course i alredy considered to mount an electronic dizzy from a later sohc car, but what i found as far as now are distributors with less centrifugal advance then mine, also they have vacuum advance device, and looks that my carb\intake manifold arent prepared for that; note that the bosch unit are no longer available, and i wasnt able to found one used, so i'm talking of marelli electronic distributors mounted on regata, uno, lancia delta cars... that's why i'm more on the way point dizzy + CD unit so i have my correct advance and also the plan b if electrons goes wrong...
 
The problem with using any MSD box is the increase in spark output will shorten the life span of consumables- the cap and rotor will need to be changed much more often, in my experience. I guess since the old simple style cap & rotor are cheap, it may not matter to you. Maybe the style used on these is not as dramatic an increase. I used it on a Volvo where the cap & rotor were over $50.
 
The problem with using any MSD box is the increase in spark output
Quite the conundrum. The benefit is also the drawback.

Ghostdancing: are you looking for more advance ignition timing, or just a more reliable spark? If the car is mostly stock and you are looking for a bit more advance (and if you haven't already done so), manually advance the dizzy. My car have a vac advance, but I capped it off and increased my static dizzy timing by hand, until the fastest idle is reached, then just barely back it off. This was you get the benefit of advanced ignition down low and all throughout, without pinging up high. But this may not be what your needing/wanting. Just thinking out loud.
 
the car is stock and it's just a 1100 128 coupe: no performance in any case: i'm looking only to an optimized ignition for a nicer drivability first.

i was in the market to buy a marelli electronic dizzy (new unit), but looks like the later setups have less centrifugal advance then my stock 1972 marelli point dizzy (plus they have the vacuum thing).

i was well impressed with the cheap CD box last year, that's why i'm ok with a box that works with the points as trigger switch..

another thought: my CD box failed short after i mounted a new cap and rotor in the dizzy: the new rotor has a built in resistor (radio noise suppressor), while the original old rotor was solid copper: i'm not an electr. engineer in any sense..but feel that probably the electronic box doesnt liked this resistor
 
i'm intrigued about this magic box:

http://www.ignitionproducts.eu/en/msd-street-fire-street-fire-ignition-box-with-rev.html

i now that the factory MSD got a good reputation in the USA V8 racing scene..the multiple spark features does worth the money requested or is just a fancy trick to catch buyers?

i currently run the stock marelli point distributor and had a cheap capacity discarge box that made a noticeable difference (smooth running, better acceleration), but recently i disconnected it because it started to go bad, so i'm looking for a better unit, still retaining the back-to-point possibility (so i can drive back home if electronics goes bad)
I don't know about that particular MSD box but I've been using the MSD 7AL for many years on a racecar, and it's performed well. The main advantage to me is the ability of the 7AL to fire the plugs at higher rpms in a higher compression engine. I locked out the advance on the stock Bosch dist and use an MSD timing computer to handle the timing advance. This is definitely an "old school" setup (many more advanced systems are available) but it fits in with the vintage nature of my car.
Hussein has a good point, the extra energy the MSD puts out can fry the resistor in the stock Bosch rotor. You can easily bypass the resistor with a bit of copper but that might cause radio interference, if that's important to you.
For a car that is not heavily modified I would suggest you simply replace the points based ignition system in your car to this:
https://www.midwest-bayless.com/Fia...em-bosch-fiat-x19-1979-80-all-x19-128-u8.aspx
This is a nice upgrade that works very well. If you want to upgrade this stock Bosch system you can easily modify the ignition box. Search here to find details on how it's done.
 
Based on what you already have and what your goals are, my opinion would be to keep your existing distributor (with the preferred timing advance) and replace the points mechanism with one of the electronic trigger units made for it (example: PerTronix, Hot Spark, E-Spark, etc). That will eliminate the points (which I would definitely do one way or another) easily and for relatively little money. Most of them include a dwell circuitry/program internally to get the most benefit from the system.

If you are still using a old stock coil, then that might be the next upgrade to a higher output one. Depending on what final ignition system you will be using will determine the right specification of coil to get. Research that before buying, each type of system requires a specific coil to match its specifications.

Then if you want to go further into "electronic spark" you can add a box like the MSD or other CD unit. I certainly would not swap to the factory Bosch electronic ignition; it is very old technology, used components, less favorable timing advance, no real improvement, and more money than it is worth. Many owners with that system have converted it to a newer style module to get rid of the Bosch control unit. Speaking of money, the MSD units are very expensive. I'm not sure you will benefit from them with your engine and intended use (non-racing application). I'd try the other improvements noted first, then decide if you think you need more. Unless you modify the rest of the engine significantly, then a fairly basic ignition system that is functioning properly is more than what's needed.

As you know you can get rotors with or without the resistor, if that becomes an issue for any reason.
 
Jeff, i wasnt able to buy a non resistor rotor here in italy..looks lke there is only a maker that still makes it (FACET) and it's a resistor type (talking of a marelli S135 dizzy)

i saw these alternative triggers (optical or magnetic).. but my thought is: points can bring me home if electronics get fried, optical or magnetos triggers do not..also as far as i understood, the dwell angle problem is solved with the CD circuit itself.

coils..well i bought one of these "power coil" form the same company of my old CD box (accuspark - UK)..only because it's was cheap (9 GPB)..it lasted some 1000 km, then went bad few days before the CD unit (related occurences??)..phoned to the girlfriend that was at home asking to bring me the old marelli coil..car fired up instantly
 
Jeff, i wasnt able to buy a non resistor rotor here in italy..looks lke there is only a maker that still makes it (FACET) and it's a resistor type (talking of a marelli S135 dizzy)

i saw these alternative triggers (optical or magnetic).. but my thought is: points can bring me home if electronics get fried, optical or magnetos triggers do not..also as far as i understood, the dwell angle problem is solved with the CD circuit itself.

coils..well i bought one of these "power coil" form the same company of my old CD box (accuspark - UK)..only because it's was cheap (9 GPB)..it lasted some 1000 km, then went bad few days before the CD unit (related occurences??)..phoned to the girlfriend that was at home asking to bring me the old marelli coil..car fired up instantly
Aftermarket CD units are pretty easy on points as very little current flows through them. The CD unit only uses them to signal when to fire as opposed to the factory Kettering style ignition which uses them to switch the power to the coil. The CD unit is also insensitive to dwell angle as well. I used points with CD units and never had to replace them. However, I found the reliability of the two I bought to be a bit lacking. Fortunately, they both came with a switch so that you could quickly go back to factory mode. I know people who have MSD units and they seem to be pretty bullet proof. I actually installed one in an old Mercedes years ago. It is a good idea to mount the unit away from heat sources (headers, exhaust) but also in a place that has good airflow for cooling.
 
I experimented with the MSD Street Fire box and a high power coil a couple of years ago. I eventually went back to a straight stock ’79 arrangement because of my personal preference for OEM dependability and, most of all, availability. As you can see I mounted the complete system on a separate plate for a contained package and so that I did not need to drill any holes, just use existing studs. Anyway, I removed it. If anyone wants to experiment with it at a cost less than buying all that stuff new, PM me.
 

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To no one in particular: search C5 ignitions. I’m not much of a wordsmith that is able to throw a sales pitch but do have a long history of mechanical hands-on experience. C5 ignitions is a cutting edge style ignition using custom fitted parts so that original parts may be retained. Most of his ignitions have several spark curves that can be switched on the fly. His web page explains in detail why and how his ignitions do what they do. He uses the latest coils that fit direct to the spark plug and produce 170K volts in multiple-spark fashion. Still retain your distributor only no plug wires... or you can run them dummy style to keep up stock apperences. Timing is a breeze with a built-in timing light. There, I’ve done my part now it’s up to you if you want the best. It’s priced right up with MSD, $600 depending but you get everything. I’m not affiliated in any way, shape or form. I checked into his ignitions for a turbocharged fuel injected drag bike but the decision wasn’t mine to buy one.
 
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Looking at his page is somewhat misleading. He has motorcycles and tractors as the only two options for his ignitions. He makes these ignitions for some very strange obsolete vehicles and loves challenges. Most systems cost around $200 depending on if he has to make spacers or fitting for his optical circuit boards to fit correctly.
 
thank you guys for these inputs

Ryan: it's really over my budget and also i exclude they make a system that does fit my old marelli dizzy

Larry: i'm intersted in your experience (it's exaclty the cheap MSD box called streetfire that i was considering): did you noticed inprovings with this setup? your 79 original was anyway electronic bosch, not point dizzy, correct?
 
Larry: i'm intersted in your experience (it's exaclty the cheap MSD box called streetfire that i was considering): did you noticed inprovings with this setup? your 79 original was anyway electronic bosch said:
Yes, I have an OEM electronic ignition. And no I did not notice any improvement, nor have I ever noticed ant benefit from super-duper ignitions on any of my vehicles over the years. So suddenly I decided, as have many over the years, that the fancy ignition stuff is really just snake oil, at least for most of us. It sounds so enticing, but really what do you seriously gain? Not much in my experience. Seriously, the best ignition results that I have gotten are with a really good set of ignition wires and the stock ignition arrangement. Since going that route, I have had the benefit of just driving the car and doing less fiddling with ignition junk. Stripped that stuff out of all my cars, and now I am much happier frankly.
 
I think Larry's experience reflects some common sense about ignitions. For a normal, stock, street driven passenger car, there is really nothing to be gained beyond a properly working, properly adjusted stock ignition. On the other hand if you have a highly modified race vehicle with state of the art fuel injection and run it at 10/tenths in extreme conditions, then you will need an upgraded ignition system capable of matching the other components. I guess the grey area comes when you are in the first situation, but the stock ignition isn't properly working or not properly adjusted. In that situation you can either rebuild the stock system back to new specs and properly adjust it. Or you can choose to buy some up graded parts to replace the bad/worn ones. However either approach will net the same results. In some cases however, it can be less expensive or easier to source aftermarket 'performance' parts than to make everything back to new stock condition. Although the trick performance stuff can get VERY expensive. So one factor might be how much money you can afford to throw at the car without expecting any noticable gains.
 
I think Larry's experience reflects some common sense about ignitions. For a normal, stock, street driven passenger car, there is really nothing to be gained beyond a properly working, properly adjusted stock ignition. On the other hand if you have a highly modified race vehicle with state of the art fuel injection and run it at 10/tenths in extreme conditions, then you will need an upgraded ignition system capable of matching the other components. I guess the grey area comes when you are in the first situation, but the stock ignition isn't properly working or not properly adjusted. In that situation you can either rebuild the stock system back to new specs and properly adjust it. Or you can choose to buy some up graded parts to replace the bad/worn ones. However either approach will net the same results. In some cases however, it can be less expensive or easier to source aftermarket 'performance' parts than to make everything back to new stock condition. Although the trick performance stuff can get VERY expensive. So one factor might be how much money you can afford to throw at the car without expecting any noticable gains.
This thread reminds me of the debate about which trans lube to use, or carb vs FI.
I don't think you're a Luddite if you wish to retain the points in your distributor, but I do think you'll be giving up engine performance and that you will be performing more maintenance. Same with FI.
Of course both points and carbs have their good points. For example - if you are ever in an EMP attack your car might be the only one on your block to continue to operate. Until you run out of gas... And, if your car suddenly stops running because the points go bad, you can fix it and continue on your way. In fact you probably can fix the problem quickly because you would have had experience doing just that many times in the past.
Nostalgia is not a bad thing, it has a special charm. And it tends to remind us of why we found " new" ways to do certain things.
As for MSD ignition boxes, the average owner will probably not discern a significant performance increase. I don't think they are intended for use by the average owner with average an engine. The stock Bosch electronic system is a good one. It's plenty good enough to keep your average engine running smoothly, much better than any points based system. Of course if you feel the need to "upgrade" the stock Bosch system you can always replace the Bosch control box with an MSD box...
 
I don't think you're a Luddite if you wish to retain the points in your distributor
I wasn't very clear, sorry. I was referring to a stock electronic ignition (e.g. the later Bosch system on X1/9's) as compared to a aftermarket system (e.g. MSD). I fully agree that points should be eliminated. But that can be done easily and inexpensively with a "trigger" retrofit device, without the need for a full aftermarket system like is being discussed.
 
what is exactly a Luddite? (dont forget i'm italian and italians are well know for beeing bad english speakers)
Sorry, excerpt from Wikipedia:
"Over time, however, the term has come to mean one opposed to industrialisation, automation, computerisation, or new technologies in general."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luddite
Please understand that I didn't intend to insult anyone, I have converted all of my Fiats away from points based ignition, that's my choice. I also use Redline oil in my trans. Not everyone does. I'm OK with that.
BTW - I think your english is very good. Much better than my Italian!
 
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