Need some advice-X1/9 vs 850 and more

Jim McKenzie

Jim McKenzie

1972 850 Spider
Hi guys, think this is my first post on Xweb 2.0 :)

I've owned 5 X1/9's and am currently drive a Mazda 3 hatch. I am interested in buying a very-near-daily-driver 850. I have bid on Chris Obert's yellow 850 on eBay, mainly based upon Chris's reputation with me. (I have bought a few things from him for my 79 X). I am afraid I may not be able to afford this car though.

I am also looking at the other 2 850's on eBay and see both good and bad on each.

I did have a question though...especially if you are the rare individual that has BOTH an 850 and an X. I was wondering if you could write here and compare the cars somewhat, personality wise, ease of repair, driveability. I think in the end, again if $$$$ works, I'd like to buy a 6th X after I buy an 850. (The Mazda will likely be traded in in March fora new 2010 Camaro btw...used to own a '69)

Anyone have any suggestions, comments at all on purchasing an 850 for a weekedn car, 850 vs X, or on Chris Obert's car or the others? (including their real value) I would gladly welcome any comments at all.
 
850 Spider vs. X1/9

Hi Jim,

My first Fiat was a '72 850 Spider, while my current Fiat is an '87 Bertone X1/9.

A good way to look at the cars would be a comparison to another set of cars from another manufacturer. The 850 is to an X as a classic Beetle is to a Rabbit GTI. Except that 850 based cars have nowhere near the aftermarket support that a Beetle has.

The 850 is fairly primitive, not as safe, lighter (1700 lbs), more fuel efficient (38-42 mpg). Easy to work on, but parts are rare and becoming more so.

An X is more complex, but only as complex as Bosch L-Jetronic F.I., much safer, heavier (2200 lbs), not as efficient (35-38 mpg). Parts are shared with Fiat 128 and can usually be found.

Both cars' trim bits are becoming unobtainium.

The 850 is light and easy to fling about when you get up to speed, which takes a while, but not good for auto-x. The X inspires confidence and can be auto-x'd on weekends with no mods.

An 850's biggest enemy is rust. The x-shaped undercarriage frame is akin to a unit-body, but can rust out. Mechanicals are stout, given the vintage. Easy to work on, since it's rear-engine and the rear body panel comes off for easily. Other parts are more difficult, king-pin front knuckles are a semi-fond memory.

My 850 was very reliable, and as stated very easy on gas. Not exactly water tight, though.

In a nutshell I loved my 850, but would probably not go back. My biggest concern is crash safety; the 850 would break in half in a collision that the X could likely drive away from.

Hope this helps!:)
 
850

Jim,

Have had an X and 850 for over 20 yrs. I have always felt the the X was (still is) a very competent machine. It instills lots of confidence and trust. It feels relatively solid and safe.

The 850 has a charming, vintage feel. It's cute. The body (in spider guise at least) seems more delicate and vulnerable. More easily damaged. Obviously, the engine is v-small and you do have to use the revs a lot to keep up with traffic flow. Apart from the drivetrain sound coming from behind the driver, it is worlds away in driving feel from the X. Engine access is a dream. You can see and reach most everything. It doesn't share much parts-wise with the X. So, you will have to invest in a whole new collection of spares.

The 850 is cool (and a rare sight these days) but, not everyone's cup of espresso. If you can spend a little driving time with one you will know right away whether it will make you happy.

Joining the 850 Yahoo group was a good move.
 
They really are not versus...

I don't really see them as being particularly comparable. The character of the two is vastly different and really can be summed up by saying the X is the first modern sports car and the 850 is the end of an era of rear engined cars.

I have had an 850 Sports Coupe for 18 years and have loved every moment of owning, working on and particularly driving it. It is a very rewarding car to drive that really teaches you the benefits of energy management (as in: never slow down). It is easily the best slow car to drive fast you will ever find, and almost anything besides a Subaru 360 will be able to out drag you.

They are indeed durable cars mechanically and do require regular maintenance. The mechanicals are the same for the Coupe, Sedan, Spider and Sports Coupe. The major differences were in displacement, final drive ratio and front brakes (depending on year and model). The front kingpins need regular re-greasing but can last for many many years , 65k and 29 years in the case of mine. The entire car is extremely simple and easy to work on with only a few hard to reach electrical items. The early carbs are better than the later ones (fewer emissions items).

Indeed rust is the major enemy. The transaxle is robust but a fast or ham handed shifter can cause trouble. One can destroy the rubber cv couplings or the axle cups with repeated hard starts, most don't find this a problem.

They are surprisingly roomy for a small car. I bought mine when I lived in Los Angeles and was able to drive it with ease on the 210 and 134 freeways. It really is a happier around town car. The handling is generally benign, but can be coaxed into oversteer with the standard suspension. Changing to a rear camber compensator and moving the rear anti sway bar to the front makes a huge difference as can reversing the lower spring eye on the front leaf spring.

An X really is a pretty modern car, although still a slow car it is an easy car to drive and own as a day to day ride. I have had an X pretty much continuously since 1980 and love owning one.

If you can afford one buy it, its not an X, but is a great car in its own right.
 
I currently have 2-82 X1/9's and a 67 850 as well as a 76 124 Spider. For me the only real comparison is that there both Fiats. I enjoy driving the 850, but the size of the engine coupled with a 4 speed transmission, makes for a much different driving experience. Acceleration is a little slower, handling is OK, but nothing like the X. The 850 drives like an older car in my opinion, where an X drives and handles like most newer cars on the road today. The 850 still puts a smile on my face every time I drive it. Although Chris Obert's 850 looks to be perfect, and I'm sure that the money was spent to get the car that way. I don't believe any 850 is worth that kind of money. IMHO you can probably find a good example for about 1/3rd the price. It just takes waiting for the right one to come along.
 
Hey Jim... Note that most that have had, or have both...

... indeed have BOTH.

I don't think anyone would forfeit an X for an 850... but admire them because of what they are. I mean... I might trade an X for an OUTSTANDING 850, but then I'd go find myself another X ASAP! HA!

So if ya want an 850, by all means, get one... same with the X... but they really are apples and oranges!
 
and now for something completely different.....

In addition to the X1/9 I also own a classic Mini. Not the same as an 850, I know, but something different, and one of the best supplier of parts and cars is right in Wesley Chapel. Perhaps you already know of Dion and DJ Minis.
 
Thanks guys

You've given me some really good things to ponder. Great insight.

I am going to ride out the auction and see if I get this 850, if not I am going to buy the one local tomorrow.

I think in the end, if I can afford it, I may just end up buying both an 850 and an X1/9. I miss my X and the special feel that comes with driving one.

...and its been a long time since I drove an 850 as "my" car...and miss the sheer fun of driving one of those too.

I guess what you yold me is that Fiat sporty cars are like ice cream...you love both and they both come in distinct flavors...raspberry is not necessarily better or worse than chocolate chip...they are just different. That's the way I remember the two cars too.

Oh well...wish me luck :)
 
850 parts

Buona fortuna w/the 850 Jim.

If you get a car that needs to be refurbished and need any bits and pieces, let me know.

I will be getting rid of a good parts car ('71 spider) in the next few weeks and also have some misc spare bits about the place. Will be 100% happy to save anything you might need, if I have it.
 
... yellow 850 spider for sale

Jim,

If you are still interested and haven't been swayed by the Obert dream machine ... there is an yellow 850 spider that is for sale in Kirkland, WA.
It's located a few blocks away from me, heck I can walk there.

Sorry, I don't recall the year but from the photos it appeared to be in reasonably good condition, being advertisted as a daily driver.

A few months back, the owner was asking $3500...

If you want, I can stop by and get the contact details.

regards
chrisE
81 X FI
 
I am now a Fiat owner

I bid as high as I could on Chris Obert's spider but sadly it was not enough. Today I purchased an orange 1973 850 Sport Spider that seems to be a good candidate for restoral. It's sitting in my garage now and after a wash and removal of several boxes of parts I will post some pictures.

Because I only want to do one restoral at a time, the X1/9 I will now shop for must be close to being a daily driver...so will be looking more often at the board.

Thanks again guys for all your advice, you are the best

And yes, would love to hear your spare parts for the 850 :)
 
Let me know what parts your looking for. I recently purchased a 1971 850 parts car with many boxes of spare parts. I plan on going through the parts soon.
 
73's contain a few X19 bits

I have been working on an 850 Spider for a year now. It took about 3 850's to come up with enough good parts for the ptoject. The 73' 850 uses the square rocker switches like the 1300's do, also the wiper control is on the column like the 'X's", so a 1300 column with turn/hi-lo/wiper levers do interchange(may not totally interchange electrically, but you can just move some wires around to make everything work). Also, the 850 wiper motor itself in interchangeable with a 1300 unit. The 'X' steering wheel will fit right on the 850 unit and is a bit smaller than the 850 stering wheel. For me I just made an adpater and mounted the complete 1300 steering wheel assembly along with the ignition switch on the 850. Now I can use ignition switches from the 'X' which I have a few of. Another thing, the 1300 seats will slide in the 850 seat rails. Part of my goal was to see how many X19 parts I could fit on an 850 so I could make use of some of the 'X' parts I have.

My project is using a 'Racer' top on a 73' chassis, but it will incorporate the roadster side glass. Maybe have it running in a year or so.

Wayne
 
This thread is useless without Pictures... So I offer up some pics of my 850.. everyone have a great thanks giving.... Jeff

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Not your average 850 there...

Let's just say I can tell.

Mine was a '72, wonderful color (lifestyle choice), and fun as hell for the few years I owned it. I had a motor built for it, a 903 stroked to 1 liter. Mostly stock otherwise. My first Fiat (you never forget your first). ;)
850Spider.jpg
 
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