New 1500 build + new 5 speed install

Agnelli

True Classic
Engine and transaxle ready to install, in process readying to uninstall the existing 1500/4 speed. Coolant, electrical, fuel connections removed. Manifolds + exhaust out. Axles and uprights out. Discovered these failed items in the process: (1) CV boots both sides (2) Right side wheel bearing (3) vertical crack on the lower inboard side of the left upright. What we learn here:

(1) CV boots can be inspected, I could have caught that. (2) I did know about the right side wheel bearing, and it certainly was noisy but also contributed to slight tracking issues (3) the upright crack based upon location probably would not have been identified by inspection. I conclude it's good to take things apart periodically, inspect, clean and re-assemble / repair.

Question for you all: On my left side A-arm, the forward pivot bolt is seized to the internal bushing sleeve. I am contemplating leaving the arm in, so long as I can drop the 1500/4 speed and re-install the newly build 1500/5 speed. It appears I can drop the existing unit straight down by pivoting the A arm up while still in the car. Now then, since the 5 speed is larger, will it be impossible to install the 1500/5 speed, either together or separately, with the A arm in place? Note I am aware the bushings are original and at some point will need to be addressed. I am planning on taking the existing installed 1500 and building it next, then re-installing it, so I can face the A arm removal in the future.

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I have installed 1500/5speed combos with the a-arms in place. I only had to tilt the transmission end downward to get it to pass the a-arm.

You are going to want to replace that bushing regardless. With the driveline out its easier. Try using a zip gun against the end of the bolt. It will usually drive it out. If you don't have one a brass drift and a big hammer might work.

Some heat from a butane torch on the head and shank will help.

I had one that would not come out. So I cut the bolt through the bushing on either side of the control arm.
 
I also had one seized bolt, tool that did the job best was a impact chisel (or how it is called in english? drill, hummer..?)
That impacts made vibration, which again made heat, and got that bolt oit within a minute.
 
I just did that on my Toyota. Leave the nut at the end of the bolt then hammer it as hard as you can. Then try turning the bolt again. Sometimes, it may be possible to unscrew a little by little. Then hammer it again if no succes. Then finally, when everything else fails, heat it with a torch until the rubber melt. Then unscrew the bolt, then hammer, then heat, then unscrew the bolt, then...

OR, leave it there and find another way to do the job without removal.
 
Soak that M14 A-arm bolt with lots of good penetrating oil for at least a day. Try wrenching on the head of that bolt to see if it will turn. If the bolt turns without ripping the rubber in that bushing apart, there is a chance the bolt will come out. If not, then it gets messy. It is possible to pound on the bolt by putting the nut back on the bolt and whacking it with a hammer. Given the space limitations the amount of force possible is not any where as high as it could be by wrenching on the bolt head. Pounding on the parts has a high risk of damaging something. IMO, do-able but not ideal.

After all that, new bolts-nuts will be needed. They are M14x1.5, not sure of the length, guess 60mm to 75mm. The shims are to prevent collapsing the sheet metal lugs directly on to the bushing's center. Pressing the sheet metal lugs directly on to the bushing increases the stress on those sheet metal lugs lots.

It is possible to remove-install the transaxle with the A-arm in place. The transaxle will need to approach the engine at an angle. What helps is to loosen the front engine mount bolt located near the timing belt (it's a 17mm hex, M10 bolt, not by much), then apply a hoist or some secure and stable means to lift up the engine a bit to aid in nudging (1-2 inches) the trans axle out-in past the A-arm. This is less preferred but do-able. What you're trying to clear is the transaxle to rear-side structure where the end of the transaxle is close to that part of the body structure. The other thing that can help, remove the strut-spring assembly then wire the A-arm or similar means of supporting that A-arm as needed to help clear the transaxle out of the chassis-body.

Know if you're trying to install a 5 speed with either the 1300 or 1500 into a chassis that is originally a 4 speed, there is a "dent" in the side of the chassis needed to clear the slightly longer 5 speed transaxle. Other differences is the A-arm has a flat spot to prevent the top part of the A-arm from contacting the case of the 5 speed. The shifter to transaxle shift rod is different. There are a number of differences between the 4 speed -vs- 5 speed that does not make them a direct drop in, bolt up exchange. CV joints and related are other differences.


Bernice
 
Super helpful thank you. I will give it a go. Now I know what a zip gun is (impact chisel). Will follow your suggestions. I do believe I have all the bits needed, but one follow on question:

Somewhere here in the past had read about the mods needed to install a five speed in an an early chassis. Do I need a 5 speed left A-arm? Or can the original arm be modified to clear the transaxle?

Thank You all!
 
Super helpful thank you. I will give it a go. Now I know what a zip gun is (impact chisel). Will follow your suggestions. I do believe I have all the bits needed, but one follow on question:

Somewhere here in the past had read about the mods needed to install a five speed in an an early chassis. Do I need a 5 speed left A-arm? Or can the original arm be modified to clear the transaxle?

Thank You all!
You may be able to adjust the existing arm. Having a correct 5spd arm is better clearly. That mod and bashing in the area for the end of the transmission as Steve pointed out above are the primary changes to the body/suspension.
 
You can simply trim about 1/4 inch off the inside of the arm where it would contact the end of the transmission. Won't harm a thing.
 
Perfect. I will endeavor to pull the arms and change out the bushings, if I can do it without harm to mounting tabs.
 
If the cut out on the A-arm is made, make absolute sure the clean up the cut line. Do NOT make the cut to a sharp aka square corner as this results in a holy hell of a stress riser assured to crack, crack(s) or crack(s) enough to travel the entire length of the A-arm causing the arm to fail when least expected. Simply radii into the cut out and radii out of the cut area. Then smooth it all out nice breaking all sharp edges and primer-paint to prevent rust which can cause other problems.

As for figuring out where the A-arm contacts the transaxle. Put the whole thing together. Drop the strut assembly, remove the spring. Put the strut assembly back in where it lives. Move the A-arm all the way up to meet the bump stop, that will give a location as to where the A-arm contacts the case of the 5sp transaxle or where the cut or bend and how much of this needs to be made.

Bernice
 
Solid copy in the A arm mod process.

While making further progress today on pivot bolts, inspected the ball joints. They are good, but at least two of the boots have failed. Any guidance on boot replacement?

Thanks Bernice and Steve.
 
Powertrain now dropped. Solo effort, no tackle used from above (tiny, fragile century old garage). No 'car-nage' save for slightly scraping the engine bay paint with the nose of the snail mount.

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  • Like
Reactions: NEG
Good job, an inspiration to all who don’t have the kit or space To do it ‘comfortably’.
 
Steel oil pan?
Thanks NEG. As to the steel oil pan: this block is a 1500 which was an NOS short block installed by the prior owner. Observed today the Lancia insignia and part number. PO May have used a 1300 pan from the original block?
 
Thanks NEG. As to the steel oil pan: this block is a 1500 which was an NOS short block installed by the prior owner. Observed today the Lancia insignia and part number. PO May have used a 1300 pan from the original block?

1300 and 1500 x19 engine used alloy oil pan. Steel was on the same engine on other cars like the 128.
 
Pro Tip:

Harbor Freight Mover's Dolly is well worth the $12 investment for rolling the driveline in/out under the car.

Good call Steve. I have the smaller HF dolly currently supporting the 5 speed you built for me. Will get the larger version also.

Today: transaxle, flywheel, cooling bits, valvetrain removed - prep for teardown to get the block to the machine shop then install new build.
 
You going with the aluminum oil pan or staying with the sheet metal one? What angle was this motor mounted at in it's previous life?
 
Aluminum on the fresh build. I am super curious about the sheet metal pan and as you asked what angle. The block was an NOS new 1500 installed by the prior owner. I will ask him. Note the Lancia logo cast in to the side of the block - maybe a telltale.
 
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