<TABLE cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD colSpan=2><TABLE width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-TOP: 4px" vAlign=top colSpan=2>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]New Carb=New performance=New Questions re: Jets<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]June 30 1999 at 5:09 PM[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Stu Brennan [/FONT]</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=bottom colSpan=3><HR></TD></TR><TR><TD colSpan=3>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Not being happy with the performance of my car I did some digging. Started with a compression test 150 to 155 on all 4 cyl. Noticed that carb. seemed to be leaking fuel into throat. I took the parts car carb. and did a carb. switch. Performance is much better. Revs to red line but if I give it to much throttle to soon it seems to have a flat spot. If I let up on the throttle it picks up and starts reving and accelerates.
I am not sure if the jets are the problem or if this is normal. The jets are as follows standing at the back of the car looking forward.
Left to Right
1977 = 09 F30 F30 50
1978= 50 F30 F30 60<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
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[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Author[/FONT]</TD><TD>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Reply[/FONT]</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Stu Brennan[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Addendum<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]June 30 1999, 5:13 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Would changing the jets improve the performance under hard throttle and eliminate the flat spot?
Which are the primary and secondary jets?
Also noticed that no vacuum to distributor advance. Good vacuum from carb to valve on front of engine but no vacuum out to distributor. Bad Valve?
As always any help or suggestions appreciated.
P. S. Timing set to 10 btc and getting good vacuum.<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Ulix[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 30px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Thermo switch<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]July 2 1999, 2:50 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 30px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Stu,
was the engine warm?
from http://we.got.net/~fiatplus/tech698.htm:
--------
Fiat Specifications require timing to be set at 10 degrees BTDC (before top dead center). This
unusual setting is because the "smart" system is supposed to correct itself; once the engine warms
up, a manifold vacuum signal is sent to the retard diaphragm to bring the timing up 10 degrees.
So, at idle (high vacuum) when hot, ignition timing is automatically retarded to TDC.
--------
You should probably read the whole article.
I suspect that using a long hose directly form distr. to intake would work fine if you can't get a new switch.
Ulix<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Stu Brennan[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 45px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Thermo Switch<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]July 2 1999, 4:26 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 45px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->The engine was warm but not hot. I tried the hose from intake to dist and it retarded more than 10 degrees. My manual says one type of dist. has adjustable retard and the other type doesn't. There are no markings on the distributor and from the illustrations I can't tell which I have. I am running it at 10 btdc and it seems fine so I will leave it that way for now. <!-- google_ad_section_end -->
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[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Ulix[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Jets<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]July 2 1999, 2:42 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Stu,
you need to take a closer look, there is more to the jets.
The two on the outside are the idle jets, no too important. The two inner ones are the main jet assemblies for the primary and secondary throat of the carb.
Each one of these is made up of 3 parts that are stuck together.
The bottom is the actual main jet that meters the fuel, should be around 110 to 120. This the most important bit.
The long tube is the emulsion tube, F30 is a good one for this carb, don't mess with it.
The top (with the screw slot) is the air corrector jet. It adds air to the fuel going through the main jet. It comes into play at the top end of the flow through the carb. So if the mixture at half throttle (for ONE throat) is right but leans out at full throttle, one would install a SMALLER air corrector.
To make the story short, you didn't check the numbers that are important.
Also, your 09 doesn't sound right...
Your flat spot could be caused by a non-functioning accelerator pump. Look into the top of the primary throat (the one with the choke plate), engine off, pump the gas. You should see a stream of gas being squirted down the carb from a little nozzle that sticks into the throat from the side. This is to supply extra fuel when gunning the throttle to eliminate such a flat spot.
Ulix<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
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[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Stu Brennan[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 30px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Jets<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]July 2 1999, 4:30 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 30px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->I think sometimes I am a real dummy. My 09 jet was probably me looking at a 60 upside down. Must be breathing to much gas. I will pull the real jets and see what I have. Thanks for setting me on the right track and providing a lession on this carb. This weekend I'm going to get it nailed. Stu<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
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[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Mac[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 45px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Accelerator pump<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]July 3 1999, 7:50 AM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 45px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Ulix is right about that accel pump - when the one on my '75 died (after many long years of faithful service!) it displayed the same flat-spot symptom that you describe. When the new accel pump (really more of a diaphragm) was installed the problem vanished. Just some food for thought. -Mac.
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[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Stu Brennan[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 60px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Power loss<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]July 5 1999, 9:52 AM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 60px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->I am at a loss to understand why I keep getting a power loss. The car runs fine lots of power and all of a sudden it just looses power. Sometimes flooring it cuts in the secondaries and it picks up othertimes it just winds down to idle. It always idles fine and usually if I wait a couple of minutes it picks up and may run fine for a while. It does it cold or hot with no pattern just intermittant power loss.
Its done the same thing with two different carbs, two different fuel pumps, has new fuel filter and ignition (points cond. etc).
I am at the point where the only thing I can think of is water or dirt in the fuel tank blocking the pickup. Other ideas? Can you get at the pickup without taking out the tank? Thanks. Stu<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Mac[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 75px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->fuel pickup removal<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]July 5 1999, 11:04 AM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 75px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Yes, it's not hard to get the pickup out of the tank. Open the engine bay, look on the forward wall at the top left. See where the 2 fuel lines connect to the little round plate? That's the item to remove.
Disconnect the 2 lines BEING VERY CAREFUL to note which hose goes to which nipple. Reversing them is not a good thing
Remove the plate's small securing nuts (I think there's 6 or 8 of them) and the wires connected to the gauge sending unit that you also will find there.
Once these simple steps are taken, the whole thing should lift right out the top of the tank. Be cautious not to bend or bang the long "float arm" on the unit whilst removing it, else it will alter your fuel gauge readings.
At the end of the pickup tube is a small baglike filter. That would be what to check. My personal thought is this is likely not the issue, as it would take an immense amount of cr*p in the tank to clog the whole thing! ...but it sure doesn't hurt to check!
I wish I had a better suggestion for you right now, but I'm drawing a blank at the moment. Let us know what you find & we'll go from there. -Mac.
<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Stu Brennan[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 90px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Fuel pickup checking.<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]July 5 1999, 2:08 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 90px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Alright finally something I can get at with reasonable ease. I noticed the plate but I thought it would just get me through the firewall and that I would have to get under to remove the tank or something. Yay and hopefully easy (crossed fingers) one to fix.
This problem has me stumped and a dirty fuel pickup is the only thing me and a couple of mechanic friends can think of. The car runs very very well when it runs. The first time I put it on the dyno it put out 40 hp. After the work I have done on carb. etc it now puts out 65 hp on the dyno. It runs fine in the city and always idles fine but once up on the highway it just looses power. Never had a problem like this and I'm running out of hair to pull out.
Thanks for you help and I'm looking for any inspiration anyone has. Stu<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Stu Brennan[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 90px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Fuel guage sender adjustment<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]July 5 1999, 2:13 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 90px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->My fuel guage has never read higher than 3/4 full even when I can see gas in the top of the fill spout. It also reads empty much sooner than it should. Am I correct in assuming that I should (bang) my float arm up to get it reading correctly?
Mac Wrote
"Once these simple steps are taken, the whole thing should lift right out the top of the tank. Be cautious not to bend or bang the
long "float arm" on the unit whilst removing it, else it will alter your fuel gauge readings."<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Mac[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 105px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->First, check the float<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]July 5 1999, 9:29 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 105px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->The sending unit's 'float' has probably got gasoline inside it. This happens after the float has been in the tank for years, it ends up with fuel condensing/absorbing into the inside and can no longer rise to its proper level. The floats are relatively cheap last time I checked with a vendor (under $10) and it's cheap insurance. Check the float and if there's no fluid inside it, then it would be time to tweak the metal arm. -Mac. <!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Stu Brennan[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 120px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Its Fixed!!!<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]July 6 1999, 9:43 AM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 120px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->I discovered that the only problem with my car was that one of the high speed jets had vibrated unscrewed and was letting fuel leak into the carb.
A twist of the wrist with a screwdriver and presto one fine working automobile. Took the top off, drove along in the sun today. Yahoo!!
Just for comparison two weeks ago it dynoed at 40 hp. now its putting out 65.
One final question I noticed that the red light underneath the ampmeter on the dash is on. The charge indicator shows 13 volts and all the electrical stuff works ok. Should I worry?
Thanks to all for your help and encouragement.
P.S. I picked up a couple of italian mag wheels, iron cross design and I think the name is corronado or something like that. Are these decent wheels and any idea for a source for a couple more.
Stu
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[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]June 30 1999 at 5:09 PM[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Stu Brennan [/FONT]</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=bottom colSpan=3><HR></TD></TR><TR><TD colSpan=3>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Not being happy with the performance of my car I did some digging. Started with a compression test 150 to 155 on all 4 cyl. Noticed that carb. seemed to be leaking fuel into throat. I took the parts car carb. and did a carb. switch. Performance is much better. Revs to red line but if I give it to much throttle to soon it seems to have a flat spot. If I let up on the throttle it picks up and starts reving and accelerates.
I am not sure if the jets are the problem or if this is normal. The jets are as follows standing at the back of the car looking forward.
Left to Right
1977 = 09 F30 F30 50
1978= 50 F30 F30 60<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
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[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Addendum<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]June 30 1999, 5:13 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Would changing the jets improve the performance under hard throttle and eliminate the flat spot?
Which are the primary and secondary jets?
Also noticed that no vacuum to distributor advance. Good vacuum from carb to valve on front of engine but no vacuum out to distributor. Bad Valve?
As always any help or suggestions appreciated.
P. S. Timing set to 10 btc and getting good vacuum.<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
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[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]July 2 1999, 2:50 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 30px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Stu,
was the engine warm?
from http://we.got.net/~fiatplus/tech698.htm:
--------
Fiat Specifications require timing to be set at 10 degrees BTDC (before top dead center). This
unusual setting is because the "smart" system is supposed to correct itself; once the engine warms
up, a manifold vacuum signal is sent to the retard diaphragm to bring the timing up 10 degrees.
So, at idle (high vacuum) when hot, ignition timing is automatically retarded to TDC.
--------
You should probably read the whole article.
I suspect that using a long hose directly form distr. to intake would work fine if you can't get a new switch.
Ulix<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
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[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]July 2 1999, 4:26 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 45px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->The engine was warm but not hot. I tried the hose from intake to dist and it retarded more than 10 degrees. My manual says one type of dist. has adjustable retard and the other type doesn't. There are no markings on the distributor and from the illustrations I can't tell which I have. I am running it at 10 btdc and it seems fine so I will leave it that way for now. <!-- google_ad_section_end -->
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[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]July 2 1999, 2:42 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Stu,
you need to take a closer look, there is more to the jets.
The two on the outside are the idle jets, no too important. The two inner ones are the main jet assemblies for the primary and secondary throat of the carb.
Each one of these is made up of 3 parts that are stuck together.
The bottom is the actual main jet that meters the fuel, should be around 110 to 120. This the most important bit.
The long tube is the emulsion tube, F30 is a good one for this carb, don't mess with it.
The top (with the screw slot) is the air corrector jet. It adds air to the fuel going through the main jet. It comes into play at the top end of the flow through the carb. So if the mixture at half throttle (for ONE throat) is right but leans out at full throttle, one would install a SMALLER air corrector.
To make the story short, you didn't check the numbers that are important.
Also, your 09 doesn't sound right...
Your flat spot could be caused by a non-functioning accelerator pump. Look into the top of the primary throat (the one with the choke plate), engine off, pump the gas. You should see a stream of gas being squirted down the carb from a little nozzle that sticks into the throat from the side. This is to supply extra fuel when gunning the throttle to eliminate such a flat spot.
Ulix<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
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[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]July 2 1999, 4:30 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 30px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->I think sometimes I am a real dummy. My 09 jet was probably me looking at a 60 upside down. Must be breathing to much gas. I will pull the real jets and see what I have. Thanks for setting me on the right track and providing a lession on this carb. This weekend I'm going to get it nailed. Stu<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
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[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 45px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Accelerator pump<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]July 3 1999, 7:50 AM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 45px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Ulix is right about that accel pump - when the one on my '75 died (after many long years of faithful service!) it displayed the same flat-spot symptom that you describe. When the new accel pump (really more of a diaphragm) was installed the problem vanished. Just some food for thought. -Mac.
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[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 60px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Power loss<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]July 5 1999, 9:52 AM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 60px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->I am at a loss to understand why I keep getting a power loss. The car runs fine lots of power and all of a sudden it just looses power. Sometimes flooring it cuts in the secondaries and it picks up othertimes it just winds down to idle. It always idles fine and usually if I wait a couple of minutes it picks up and may run fine for a while. It does it cold or hot with no pattern just intermittant power loss.
Its done the same thing with two different carbs, two different fuel pumps, has new fuel filter and ignition (points cond. etc).
I am at the point where the only thing I can think of is water or dirt in the fuel tank blocking the pickup. Other ideas? Can you get at the pickup without taking out the tank? Thanks. Stu<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
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[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 75px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->fuel pickup removal<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]July 5 1999, 11:04 AM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 75px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Yes, it's not hard to get the pickup out of the tank. Open the engine bay, look on the forward wall at the top left. See where the 2 fuel lines connect to the little round plate? That's the item to remove.
Disconnect the 2 lines BEING VERY CAREFUL to note which hose goes to which nipple. Reversing them is not a good thing
Remove the plate's small securing nuts (I think there's 6 or 8 of them) and the wires connected to the gauge sending unit that you also will find there.
Once these simple steps are taken, the whole thing should lift right out the top of the tank. Be cautious not to bend or bang the long "float arm" on the unit whilst removing it, else it will alter your fuel gauge readings.
At the end of the pickup tube is a small baglike filter. That would be what to check. My personal thought is this is likely not the issue, as it would take an immense amount of cr*p in the tank to clog the whole thing! ...but it sure doesn't hurt to check!
I wish I had a better suggestion for you right now, but I'm drawing a blank at the moment. Let us know what you find & we'll go from there. -Mac.
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[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]July 5 1999, 2:08 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 90px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Alright finally something I can get at with reasonable ease. I noticed the plate but I thought it would just get me through the firewall and that I would have to get under to remove the tank or something. Yay and hopefully easy (crossed fingers) one to fix.
This problem has me stumped and a dirty fuel pickup is the only thing me and a couple of mechanic friends can think of. The car runs very very well when it runs. The first time I put it on the dyno it put out 40 hp. After the work I have done on carb. etc it now puts out 65 hp on the dyno. It runs fine in the city and always idles fine but once up on the highway it just looses power. Never had a problem like this and I'm running out of hair to pull out.
Thanks for you help and I'm looking for any inspiration anyone has. Stu<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
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[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]July 5 1999, 2:13 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 90px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->My fuel guage has never read higher than 3/4 full even when I can see gas in the top of the fill spout. It also reads empty much sooner than it should. Am I correct in assuming that I should (bang) my float arm up to get it reading correctly?
Mac Wrote
"Once these simple steps are taken, the whole thing should lift right out the top of the tank. Be cautious not to bend or bang the
long "float arm" on the unit whilst removing it, else it will alter your fuel gauge readings."<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 105px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->First, check the float<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]July 5 1999, 9:29 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 105px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->The sending unit's 'float' has probably got gasoline inside it. This happens after the float has been in the tank for years, it ends up with fuel condensing/absorbing into the inside and can no longer rise to its proper level. The floats are relatively cheap last time I checked with a vendor (under $10) and it's cheap insurance. Check the float and if there's no fluid inside it, then it would be time to tweak the metal arm. -Mac. <!-- google_ad_section_end -->
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[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]July 6 1999, 9:43 AM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 120px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->I discovered that the only problem with my car was that one of the high speed jets had vibrated unscrewed and was letting fuel leak into the carb.
A twist of the wrist with a screwdriver and presto one fine working automobile. Took the top off, drove along in the sun today. Yahoo!!
Just for comparison two weeks ago it dynoed at 40 hp. now its putting out 65.
One final question I noticed that the red light underneath the ampmeter on the dash is on. The charge indicator shows 13 volts and all the electrical stuff works ok. Should I worry?
Thanks to all for your help and encouragement.
P.S. I picked up a couple of italian mag wheels, iron cross design and I think the name is corronado or something like that. Are these decent wheels and any idea for a source for a couple more.
Stu
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