New issue (major) help!

Dany

Dany

X-ing in Canada
Hi, driving home i felt the clutch go down too easy all the way to the last traffic light before getting there. When I tried getting into first gear, I found the clutch stuck on the floor, and I had to manually pull it out! Then I was stuck without a clutch for the rest of the way home (1 km). There almost no clutch fluid in the reservoir, and the tranny is drencht in fluid... So i look everywhere, and I finally see the clutch slave cylinder with the boot stuck out half way inside out... There seems to be missing the spring that pulls the clutch back out when letting go of the pedal... But how can I lose the spring? Is losing the spring a symptom of a bad seal, and the pushing rod just went too far, bending the spring out of place? OR did the spring break loose and then the push rod went too far?... What's next? just replacing the spring?
the seal? the whole cylinder? HELP! I can't drive like this and the fiat is my daily driver until snow :)

Thanks!
PS: is there something wrong with xweb 1,0? it doesn't load for me...
 
IIRC the spring you identify as missing could have - depending on the year of your car - two different functions. On early cars the spring operated as a "return" spring, but on later cars the spring operated in the opposite direction and acted as part of an automatic wear-adjustemnt system. Loss of the spring is not a good thing, but shouldn't result in the symptoms your car has, so I suspect this is not the cause of your problems.

A not uncommon issue on X1/9 clutches is for the actuating-arm to seize. The slave-cylinder pushes on an arm (on the top of the bell-house), which is attached to a shaft that runs down into the bell-housing (to actuate the clutch). There is no easy way to lubricate this shaft so, after decades of use, the shaft can become seized solid. Once you've unbolted the slave cylinder and moved it aside (it is connected by a short flexible pipe so you don't have to drain the system) check that the arm moves freely. Obviously you won't be able to actuate the clutch by hand, but there should be a limited amount of free-movement. If the shaft has become seized it is possible that pushing down the clutch-pedal forced hydraulic-fluid passed the (ageing?) seal in the slave cylinder rather than moving the - now immovable - actuating-arm.

If both the slave-cylinder and the actuating arm are in working condition then the clutch itself may be damaged or worn-out, but better to discount the cylinder and arm first.

Good luck :)
 
OK!

Thank you for the reply.

I tried moving this arm yesterday and could not, but the rod was still aligned with it so it could be nmormal. The clutch itself is due for a change (I have the clutch kit and the whole transmission in a box somewhere... ) but it was working fine before yesterday...Now the system is empty of fluid so in theory everything should move freely?

I'll try to dismount the slave cylinder and move the arm a bit.

Thanks again
 
Clutch slave

You just need to replace the slave, then bleed the system. The spring is not that important, mine didn't have one when I got it and it worked fine, but I installed one to make things easier.

I found that to bleed the slave I had to partially depress the clutch slave piston into the bore to get the fluid to flow through. A pressure bleeder will help ensure you don't ruin the clutch M/C seals in the bleeding process.
 
Moved thread into new WF

Now that the Workshop forum is open I've moved this thread in
 
OK

So I got my slave, replaced it and poured new fluid. Now when came the time to bleed, the clutch pedal never got stiff and the pressure coming out of the bleeding valve on the slave was non-existent...
After continuous pumping on the clutch pedal, SOME fluid eventually came up but cleary not as much as it should. SO... my guess is the master is shot... so I ordered the master too, with all the hassle of replacing it...
Now I am in wait and not happy. It was working fine before the slave started to throw up fluid all over, why is the master now dead?

grrrrrrrrrrr
 
Slave bleeding.

from reading your first post, it sounds like your master is ok, but it is a good idea to change the pair while at it.
I did mine this summer. PITA
Bleeding the slave (for me) worked better with 2. My wife operating the pedal slowly and me opening and closing the bleeder. This wasn't that bad because you can watch when she pushes and pulls the pedal.... which meant less conversation :cool:
There maybe a stop on the floor which limits the pedal travel. Temporarily remove it to get more stroke.... keep the reservoir full.
It helps putting a clear hose on the bleeder screw to determine if all the air is out.
Patience is necessary.
 
Bleeding can ruin it.

If you use the pedal-pumping method to bleed the brake or clutch system, you can damage your M/C. This happens if the M/C bore is corroded in areas outside of its normal operating stroke (as would be expected in any older system).

When you go to bleed it, the pedal travels beyond its normal range into the corroded areas of the bore and the corrosion damages the seals. I've had this happen, it's very frustrating, and one reason I switched to pressure bleeding (the other being it becomes a one-person job, my wifey thanks me for it).

The M/C can even be damaged when the slave or other component fails and the M/C pedal "goes to the floor", if the corrosion is bad enough. It takes very little damage to ruin a seal in an older M/C, since the seal gets less flexible with age; a small roughness cuts the seal rather than the seal flexing over it.

I'm not familiar with the internals of the X M/C but on my Lancia the seal in question was an o-ring, and one pedal-style bleeding session killed it. I rebuilt it and the old seal was almost imperceptibly flattened on one side, such that I wasn't confident the new seal would fix it, but it did. The bore was not even rough to the touch and it caused this.

A long-winded but heartfelt caution. ;)
 
Hey Dany... sorry for your trouble... but it sounds...

... like you have not completely bled the air out.

Since the reservoir was empty too... I find it best to "crack" the line at the M/C (careful!!!) and bleed air out at that point first, by HAND, pushing and pulling the pedal... then have someone do the SAME and bleed at the banjo bolt on the slave... 1-2-3- and hold the pedal down as you open and close the bolt... until no air comes out.

Lastly... bleed at the nipple on the slave and insure you have about 1 and 1/4 inch THROW of the clutch arm.

(This process took me two days the first time I did it... and now takes about 7 - 8 cycles of pumping.)

Don't give up... you'll get it.
 
Ok, what do you mean "crack" the line at the master cylinder?

Sorry about my over-use of suspension points. I have a tendency to ramble and they prevent me from going on and on about something, but still letting the reader know I have much more on my mind about a subject. They also leave room for swear words that remain unsaid.

:)
 
If I may ,,to keep the info flowing, what Tony means is to loosen the nut enough so

that it leaks some, to bleed it at that point. This allows any air trapped in the master to be easily ejected, speeds up the process and gets rid of it quicker,, also it may be an "air lock " spot and allows it out. I've also unbolted the master and tipped it, so as to allow the bubble to be more at the top of the cylinder.
 
Dany... just as Jim said... sorry to have used...

... colloquialisims that aren't universally understood.

"bust, break, crack"... are all "loosening" terms... "Cinch-down, torque, bolt-up" are "tightening" terms...

BUT... many times when one goes to LOOSEN anything on these cars... they generally end up CRACKING, BREAKING or BUSTING whatever it was they were trying to LOOSEN!

HA!
 
very common term in this area Tony, quite surprising how some

of these are so widespread. I suppose it comes from "open it just a crack, or a ,,,,hair. One local village uses kill the light for turn off the light. I always found this one so back woods.
 
Finally got it to work!

ha!
I went to a flea market style hardware stroe and found a 4$ "hydrolic bleeding kit" that looks like a mini sports water bottle with a straw. I told myself that 4$ was a funny price for anything, so I got it.

Now remember that i replaced the slave cylinder about 2 weeks ago, and I could not get the master to grab any fluid and clear the air out of the line. Well since then, by topping the fluid everytime it went down in the reservoir, I eventually got gravity to fill up the master enough so that the pedal was again usable.

I connected the little clear straw at the bleed valve on the slave and the bottle, and SLOWLY started pumping the pedal. Every motion was deliberately slow and I felt pressure build instantly. This tells me that my master needs a change too, and that's ok because I did order the part, but at least I got the fluid going! After emptying the VERY small bottle 4 times, the straw's content showed no bubbles, and I screwed the valve shut. Ta-Dam! in about 15 minutes my clutch was working and I was driving around the block with a fat grin on my face.

I am constantly checking the fluid level now, and I will take the X to the shop to get the other stuff done to it (clutch kit, tranny, brakes, master, etc.) but at leats now I can drive it to the garage and save the 150$ towing.

Thanks for the help.
 
I knew you could do it. now........

forget about taking your x to the shop.:eek: Fix it up yourself gearbox clutch no problem (+ it gives us something to yak about):D
 
I would... except:

I have a low tolerance to frustration and I fear i might hurt the car or more probably myself, while in a deep medieval-style rage, after spending hours and hours to unscrew a small unimportant part.

Plus having a full time job and a wife, it seems the safest way to use the car un spring would be to take it to someone else. Don't get me wrong, I have the tools and the scientific curiosity, but I would need a week off and possibly a lift, both of which I don't have.

cheers!
 
Clutch adjustment

Just got done with cleaning up the clutch hydraulics on my 80 X. The amount of crud that came out when we flushed the lines was amazing. But now I'm not sure how much I should adjust the rod on the slave to get the right tension. At the moment there is a "catch" when the clutch pedal is depressed right at the very beginning of travel. Once the pedal is pushed past that point, the clutch operates normally and is smooth. It is difficult to engage first and second but third and fourth as well as reverse are ok. If I loosen the slave up the clutch pedal stiffness disappears. Any ideas guys?
Errol in Oz
 
I dunno how to respond to the word "catch"...

But.... I would first DIVIDE and CONQUER by removing the rod altogether and then with some help... have someone hold the rod inside the slave with their hand as you slowly depress the pedal... careful NOT to shoot the piston out of the slave... and see if the "catch" goes away.

If it's still there... then the problem is in the pedal assy. or the hydraulic system. If it went away... then the problem is in the T/O bearing or the Pressure Plate itself... and I would advise pulling the trans and inspect/replace those parts.

If it proves forward... then you need to prove it into the pedal assembly or the hydraulics... probably by removing the pedal assy. and pulling the master... to determine if its the master or the assy.

This is all PHYLISOPHICAL as its difficult to understand the problem.

Hope this helps...
 
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