New Scorpion purchase

decommissioned

decommissioned

Daily Driver
Hey guys,
Bought this 1976 one about a month ago and got a great deal. It sat since around 2005 I think based on registration. Looks like it was stored outside but under a tarp. Almost no rust on the body or underneath.

The best part is it has a 2.0 fuel injected engine swapped in.

Given how long it's sat it needs some clean up/ tune-up work before I get it running. Cleaning out the fuel tank was about a 3-week process of getting all the fuel that turned to tar out of it. I ended up cutting out a section of the tank to get inside and clean it.

Looking forward to getting this on the road
PXL_20221107_030733253.jpg

PXL_20221213_161157406.MP.jpg
 
Welcome, great to see the car and looking forward to following your progress. Any issues with the engine swap and California smog laws? I am assuming this is a 2.0 Beta or Zagato swap?
 
decommissioned said:
Hey guys,
Bought this 1976 one about a month ago and got a great deal. It sat since around 2005 I think based on registration. Looks like it was stored outside but under a tarp. Almost no rust on the body or underneath.

The best part is it has a 2.0 fuel injected engine swapped in.

Given how long it's sat it needs some clean up/ tune-up work before I get it running. Cleaning out the fuel tank was about a 3-week process of getting all the fuel that turned to tar out of it. I ended up cutting out a section of the tank to get inside and clean it.

Looking forward to getting this on the road
View attachment 68871
View attachment 68872
Click to expand...
Congrats and welcome to the XWeb. Always happy to see someone saving a great car.

Ask questions, there is a ton of knowledge here.
 
dherr said:
Welcome, great to see the car and looking forward to following your progress. Any issues with the engine swap and California smog laws? I am assuming this is a 2.0 Beta or Zagato swap?
Click to expand...
It looks like the 2.0 is actually out of a 1981 Fiat 124 spider. It's got the Fiat intake manifold and the door jam has a California vehicle ID card sticker that basically says it has an engine swap that conforms to CA regs
 
Engine bay as I go through it all and clean grounds
PXL_20221218_174010317.jpg

Got a bubble top with the deal
PXL_20221218_174027744.jpg

Interior is a little crusty but it's all there
PXL_20221218_174037414.MP.jpg
 
That looks like a worthy project, congrats for getting it at a price you're happy with. I got my '77 out of Napa valley in 2016, non-rusty all original complete and running, if a bit weathered for a grand. It ran remarkably well for the purchase price, but it had been in the sun for too long. The guy on the phone sounded solid enough, and I knew someone closer than 500 miles away would beat me to it if I hesitated so I agreed to send him ten $100 bills Fed-Ex Overnight. He was more than solid and helped me load it onto the trailer I showed up with.

These are super fun cars to drive and I'll be curious as to the power of the 2.0 Injected twin cam. Folks here are very helpful and friendly, keep posting your progress while knowing that we're looking forward to it : )
 
Figured I'm due for an update. Not running yet but very close.

After getting all the planned work done: clean all grounds, replace fuel lines, pump, filter, injectors, pressure regulator, spark plugs, and some other odds and ends. It cranks, stumbles but doesn't start.

As I've been trouble shooting I realized:

FUEL
the cheap clear fuel filter I added before the pump was restricting flow. It's removed, still has a metal filter after the pump

I moved the the fuel pump to sit below the fuel tank.
PXL_20221221_193914459.jpg

PXL_20221221_194329614.jpg

Picture is from underneath.

Fuel pressure through the rail tested at the cold start is around 40psi.

SPARK
I also replaced the ignition control module and magnetic pickup coil prior to first start. Double checked the air gap after no start

Used a spark test light on each wire, they are working.

AIR
I pulled the old air filter as I work on it. The air intake actuator door (I forget the name) works and triggers the fuel pump. I replaced and capped vacuum lines as needed.

Trouble shooting
after some basic trouble shooting I started to suspect a fuel issue. But first I wanted to check the intake manifold in case something had gotten in there while it sat for so long.

Opening it I found a pool of fuel sitting in it. At first I thought the fuel pressure regulator was bad and sucking fuel through the vacuum lines. Spent some time on that before realizing it's more likely the cold start injector that when cranking, isn't shutting off since it's not starting. So not the actual issue.

At this point I had checked everything but the injectors themselves. Thinking they might be clogged. I had been putting it off since it's such a pain to reach. I made a rough setup so I could compare the fuel output of each injector
PXL_20221230_210813424.jpg

Turns out the injectors aren't getting the signal to fire. No fuel. The stumbles when cranking were probably only because of the fuel coming from the cold start.

I went through the Bosch jetronic steps which say it's the ECU. The seller gave me 3x spare ECUs (awesome) but they all have the same result so I doubt it's actually the ECU.

Up next:
I'm zeroing in on what the issue could be.
First thing is to test the injectors independently of the car. I have a tester that sends signal to the injector to pulse.
After that, probably trace F.I. wires to ground and the ECU checking for continuity.

Hopefully next update is of the engine running
PXL_20221229_173518112.jpg



 
decommissioned said:
Figured I'm due for an update. Not running yet but very close.

After getting all the planned work done: clean all grounds, replace fuel lines, pump, filter, injectors, pressure regulator, spark plugs, and some other odds and ends. It cranks, stumbles but doesn't start.

As I've been trouble shooting I realized:

FUEL
the cheap clear fuel filter I added before the pump was restricting flow. It's removed, still has a metal filter after the pump

I moved the the fuel pump to sit below the fuel tank.
View attachment 69265
View attachment 69266
Picture is from underneath.

Fuel pressure through the rail tested at the cold start is around 40psi.

SPARK
I also replaced the ignition control module and magnetic pickup coil prior to first start. Double checked the air gap after no start

Used a spark test light on each wire, they are working.

AIR
I pulled the old air filter as I work on it. The air intake actuator door (I forget the name) works and triggers the fuel pump. I replaced and capped vacuum lines as needed.

Trouble shooting
after some basic trouble shooting I started to suspect a fuel issue. But first I wanted to check the intake manifold in case something had gotten in there while it sat for so long.

Opening it I found a pool of fuel sitting in it. At first I thought the fuel pressure regulator was bad and sucking fuel through the vacuum lines. Spent some time on that before realizing it's more likely the cold start injector that when cranking, isn't shutting off since it's not starting. So not the actual issue.

At this point I had checked everything but the injectors themselves. Thinking they might be clogged. I had been putting it off since it's such a pain to reach. I made a rough setup so I could compare the fuel output of each injector
View attachment 69267
Turns out the injectors aren't getting the signal to fire. No fuel. The stumbles when cranking were probably only because of the fuel coming from the cold start.

I went through the Bosch jetronic steps which say it's the ECU. The seller gave me 3x spare ECUs (awesome) but they all have the same result so I doubt it's actually the ECU.

Up next:
I'm zeroing in on what the issue could be.
First thing is to test the injectors independently of the car. I have a tester that sends signal to the injector to pulse.
After that, probably trace F.I. wires to ground and the ECU checking for continuity.

Hopefully next update is of the engine running
View attachment 69268
Click to expand...

A couple of thoughts.

1. If the injectors are gummed up (e.g. after sitting for a long time) they may not squirt even when getting the propper pulse. You can get a noid light and check if the ECU is trying to activate the injectors.

2. On the FI X1/9, the ECU is getting a tachometer signal from the coil primary through the infamous piggyback connector. If this connection is missing, the ECU will never pulse the injectors. I would imagine L-Jetronic on the DOHC engine would be similar. Do you have a connection between the ECU and the coil primary?
 
ng_randolph said:
A couple of thoughts.

1. If the injectors are gummed up (e.g. after sitting for a long time) they may not squirt even when getting the propper pulse. You can get a noid light and check if the ECU is trying to activate the injectors.

2. On the FI X1/9, the ECU is getting a tachometer signal from the coil primary through the infamous piggyback connector. If this connection is missing, the ECU will never pulse the injectors. I would imagine L-Jetronic on the DOHC engine would be similar. Do you have a connection between the ECU and the coil primary?
Click to expand...
Thanks for the tips:

For 1. Tested one of the injectors with a testing tool and it pulses fuel independently no problem.

For 2. I think this might be the issue. From the ECU(plug 1) to the coil I got continuity. But then as I was thinking through it, I unplugged the wire (brown and white) from the coil and the ECU no longer gets continuity to the end of the wire on coil side. I need to do a bit more reading on the Fiat forms.
 
Regarding the prefilter, which is a very good thing to add, there is a Wix/Napa filter you can get which is a ‘coarse’ filter to grab the chunks which doesn’t impede flow to the pump. These filters have a metal body, just not as big as the FI one :) you are using a Bosch FI filter right?

You will want to change it after a couple of tanks of fuel and again after six months and then yearly. I was severely surprised at the amount of ‘fines’ I was able to drain from the FI filter, they really do their job. My tank is clean now but expect to replace my prefilter every year going forward.

Fuel Injected Fuel Line and Fuel Filter Replacement

A few years ago I had one of my OE cloth covered fuel lines from the pump to the filter burst, no surprise as it was well past its use by date. I had bought some 7.5mm fuel hose prior to this as it was my intent to replace them anyway so I was prepared for this eventuality. Happily this is a...
xwebforums.com
 
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decommissioned said:
Thanks for the tips:

For 1. Tested one of the injectors with a testing tool and it pulses fuel independently no problem.

For 2. I think this might be the issue. From the ECU(plug 1) to the coil I got continuity. But then as I was thinking through it, I unplugged the wire (brown and white) from the coil and the ECU no longer gets continuity to the end of the wire on coil side. I need to do a bit more reading on the Fiat forms.
Click to expand...
Have you used the Fiat FI trouble shooting guide? It is available on the Wiki here as well as over at Mirafiori. As your engine and FI system is 124 Spider based you will want to look at it in terms of ‘being’ one from a wiring perspective.

I would look carefully at the grounds for the FI to the head and of course the main ground from the engine/transmission to the body. As I recall the injectors are always ‘hot’ with the ignition ‘on’ and work by way of the ECU grounding them to actuate.

8B438EB4-E30D-40D4-BDE0-8A6467CC2591.jpeg
 
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kmead said:
Have you used the Fiat FI trouble shooting guide? It is available on the Wiki here as well as over at Mirafiori. As your engine and FI system is 124 Spider based you will want to look at it in terms of ‘being’ one from a wiring perspective.

I would look carefully at the grounds for the FI to the head and of course the main ground from the engine/transmission to the body. As I recall the injectors are always ‘hot’ with the ignition ‘on’ and work by way of the ECU grounding them to actuate.

View attachment 69274
Click to expand...
Thanks for the assistance. I think I figured it out based off that wiring diagram and digging through a few other forums.

All the injectors are now pulsing fuel. Still need to get everything buttoned back up to know for sure.
 
It runs now! Looks like I can't post videos so you'll have to trust me.

There is essentially two different wiring harness in the car; the original and the engine swap. The original harness had a wire at the coil that was interfering with the engine swap harness. Might have been my fault as one of the first things I did was replace the ignition module behind the coil and might have mixed up the wires
PXL_20230105_002237065.jpg

Here is the guilty wire (brown and white) that for now is unplugged but I need to look up what it does and where it's supposed to go.

Next is getting the dashboard instruments working. Right now I have tach and the generator/alternator light but that's it. The grounds off the fusebox area is pretty crusty looking so that and the fuses will be the first stop.

I haven't run it for more than 20 seconds since I'm not getting oil pressure indicator or coolant temp(water pump and alt are spinning) but hopefully that's a quick fix.
 
The push button in last photo was for the emission controlled Scorpion carburetor. It and all the wiring is useless. If its still wired to an electrovalve on the bulkhead, the electrovalve is also garbage. And if the fuel hoses are still routed through electrovalve (hopefully not, bypass it.

Edit: Additionally is the car still equipped with AC?
 
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NigelProdrive said:
The push button in last photo was for the emission controlled Scorpion carburetor. It and all the wiring is useless. If its still wired to an electrovalve on the bulkhead, the electrovalve is also garbage. And if the fuel hoses are still routed through electrovalve (hopefully not, bypass it.

Edit: Additionally is the car still equipped with AC?
Click to expand...
Thanks for the info, that makes sense.

Still has original AC, haven't ran or tested it yet
 
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