New Scorpion purchase

Thanks for the info, that makes sense.

Still has original AC, haven't ran or tested it yet
Just spotted in another photo it seems the vacuum reservoir for the heat and AC controls is lying on your transmission not hooked up so you won't be able to test without it hooked up sending vacuum to the controls.
 
Just spotted in another photo it seems the vacuum reservoir for the heat and AC controls is lying on your transmission not hooked up so you won't be able to test without it hooked up sending vacuum to the controls.
Ha, good eyes. Yea, AC and other luxuries are going to be phase 3.

Phase 1: Get engine running: ✓
Phase 2: Make car drivable: ongoing (brakes, electrical/gauges, new tires)
 
Current status:
PXL_20230106_040306611.MP.jpg

Under the dash is a ground with a bunch of white/black stripe wires. All but one of said wires is chewed(?) through.
 
Current status:
Under the dash is a ground with a bunch of white/black stripe wires. All but one of said wires is chewed(?) through.
Scorpions came with an extra 5 miles of useless wiring. Many of the black and white grounds were for dash lighting IIRC.

You’ll want to expose the wiring loom running down drivers sill plate and open electrical tape loom in engine compartment and start removing all the old emissions wiring (white out on your diagram when removed) and tracing while highlighting all the necessary wires. Then add in the injection wiring into your diagram.

After your done adding gauge wiring then tape it all back up. An idea is to relocate the wiring harnesses from the top of engine compartment bulkhead down to the crossmember for a hidden appearance and most that goes to devices (oil pressure, alternator, starter, ...) which are lower anyway.

Your car has the relays for the oil pressure fuel pump safety cutoff. There is a lot of wiring and 2 relays involved which have left owners stranded and spending days diagnosing why car won’t run. If you are revamping wiring and gauges anyhow could consider other alternatives (no relay and honking big oil pressure light).

You’ve confirmed there is an AC condenser, belt, and intact hoses? Wondering why the vacuum reservoir was removed if they intended to keep AC.

Does it still have a cat converter?
 
I owe an update. I left off my last post with the original wiring being the next project. The car was running but not running great and in the back of my mind I knew I had to get that sorted.

Basically it would stumble or not respond to throttle. Won't go above 2.5k or so.

I decided to go back through the fuel system and clean the injectors. A previous car of mine had the same issue and it was dirty injectors.
PXL_20230117_035723979.jpg

This setup worked. Pressurizing and spraying carb cleaner through as it pulsed. These was infact some debris in there.
PXL_20230117_041157443.jpg

(Not all of that's from inside the injectors, I was messy at this point)

After cleaning the fuel system and getting it back together next, I decided to check the sensors. But the engine was quickly getting worse and worse and sounded like it was about to die.

I quickly did a compression test thinking the worst. Thankfully it was spot on consistent between all the cylinders.

I then spent about a week troubleshooting mostly focus on the double relay and the fuel pump relays. Only to then realize the ECU had worked its way loose. It's tucked between the body and the fuel tank in a dry sturdy spot. But with the fuel tank in and the hood on, it's hard to reach. I laughed at myself for not checking that earlier. Got it plugged back in and the car started up fine.

Working my way through the sensors. I ended up swapping the AFM. It was within tolerance but hardly and there's a noticeable difference once swapped. My ear Dyno says it's running better. I still need to getting driving and see how it is under load.

To do that I need to address the brakes. They're in rough shape after sitting for so long. I bought a rebuild kit for the rear and went big for the front.
PXL_20230213_194613278.jpg

(Also the water pump leaks so it's on the list)

Not sure if I'll bypass the booster or not. I'm open to suggestions.

This weekend I'm going through the install. Hopefully some quicker updates moving forward.

I also swapped out the wheels in the most painstaking way but that's a post for another time.
PXL_20230208_230818213.jpg
 
All early Bosch fuel injection systems had fuel tanks with 12mm bottom feed line. Drawing the fuel up to the top of the tank through an 8mm line with just result in vapor lock and starve the pump. That's why all modern cars have in tank pumps. Late 70's Caddy Sevilles and Volvos both used a high volume low pressure in tank primer pump to feed the high pressure pump, Carter #P60091.
 
All early Bosch fuel injection systems had fuel tanks with 12mm bottom feed line. Drawing the fuel up to the top of the tank through an 8mm line with just result in vapor lock and starve the pump. That's why all modern cars have in tank pumps. Late 70's Caddy Sevilles and Volvos both used a high volume low pressure in tank primer pump to feed the high pressure pump, Carter #P60091.
Oh that's really interesting. Vapor lock is something I'm vaguely familiar with on motorcycles and it was on my list of things to check for. Thanks for the info.
 
Aren't those Alfa Spider wheels with a 4x108 bolt pattern?
Haha yup. That was the really painstaking part. After doing my research and scouring the internet for deals and having checked bolt patterns, I boneheadedly mixed up the alfa spider with the Fiat spider. I thought I found an awesome deal.

I didn't catch it until after I had the tires mounted and balanced and went to bolt on the wheels.

I bought wheel adapters/ spacers that do the conversion. (Not crazy about adding spacers to a car but at least I have good reason and am not just doing it for a look)
PXL_20230208_223300561.jpg


It was still a good deal but when you add in the spacers and the hours spent grinding down bolts I could have just bought the same style wheels that fit properly. But then I wouldn't have this story.

And if anybody else wants to go this route and buy the cheaper alfa wheels, I can share links all the supplemental parts I needed.
 
I owe an update. I left off my last post with the original wiring being the next project. The car was running but not running great and in the back of my mind I knew I had to get that sorted.

Basically it would stumble or not respond to throttle. Won't go above 2.5k or so.

I decided to go back through the fuel system and clean the injectors. A previous car of mine had the same issue and it was dirty injectors.
View attachment 70746
This setup worked. Pressurizing and spraying carb cleaner through as it pulsed. These was infact some debris in there.
View attachment 70747
(Not all of that's from inside the injectors, I was messy at this point)

After cleaning the fuel system and getting it back together next, I decided to check the sensors. But the engine was quickly getting worse and worse and sounded like it was about to die.

I quickly did a compression test thinking the worst. Thankfully it was spot on consistent between all the cylinders.

I then spent about a week troubleshooting mostly focus on the double relay and the fuel pump relays. Only to then realize the ECU had worked its way loose. It's tucked between the body and the fuel tank in a dry sturdy spot. But with the fuel tank in and the hood on, it's hard to reach. I laughed at myself for not checking that earlier. Got it plugged back in and the car started up fine.

Working my way through the sensors. I ended up swapping the AFM. It was within tolerance but hardly and there's a noticeable difference once swapped. My ear Dyno says it's running better. I still need to getting driving and see how it is under load.

To do that I need to address the brakes. They're in rough shape after sitting for so long. I bought a rebuild kit for the rear and went big for the front.
View attachment 70748
(Also the water pump leaks so it's on the list)

Not sure if I'll bypass the booster or not. I'm open to suggestions.

This weekend I'm going through the install. Hopefully some quicker updates moving forward.

I also swapped out the wheels in the most painstaking way but that's a post for another time.
View attachment 70749
Looks like a Fiat Spider pump? If you use it you will have to change your crank and water pump pulleys and bend or cut the metal coolant lines and switch to a later fiat spider oil filter housing
 
Looks like a Fiat Spider pump? If you use it you will have to change your crank and water pump pulleys and bend or cut the metal coolant lines and switch to a later fiat spider oil filter housing
He said he thinks its a Fiat spider engine in it but in the pump appears to be Lancia waterpump because has the waterpump tree fitting that has the heater bypass hose routed to it. Guess will know soon.

Good time to do all the pulley and auxiliary shaft mods. May have to block the heater outlet pipe fitting on cylinder head because you are going to lose where its routed to now which is probably better than having that rubber hose routed near exhaust and also tap in the third hose that you are losing without the Scorpion tree fitting which is the return from the overflow tank. Internal thermostat would help minimize all the hoses jammed there.
 
Last edited:
Guessing they used a Scorpion oil pan and pickup but what about the cylinder head? I should have a cross reference (Guy Croft manual has them I think) to the casting # if you wanna share. Might as well do the block also. Have heard oil passages are different to compensate for the 20 degree Beta tilt but don’t know if it really makes a difference. Someone else here who has had both may know.

The Scorpion waterpump has a deeper impeller supposedly to compensate for lengthy coolant tubes however available now are the Fiat high volume water pumps which are suitable for using all the Fiat pulleys.

 
Guessing they used a Scorpion oil pan and pickup but what about the cylinder head? I should have a cross reference (Guy Croft manual has them I think) to the casting # if you wanna share. Might as well do the block also. Have heard oil passages are different to compensate for the 20 degree Beta tilt but don’t know if it really makes a difference. Someone else here who has had both may know.

The Scorpion waterpump has a deeper impeller supposedly to compensate for lengthy coolant tubes however available now are the Fiat high volume water pumps which are suitable for using all the Fiat pulleys.

Thanks for sharing.
I'm about 95% confident the engine is out of a Fiat spider. I've noticed mine sits tilted towards the rear a bit more than some of the other swaps I've seen. Hard to capture on camera, but the angle matches the slope of the C pillar pretty close.

Good to know about the different water pumps. I just bought one for a spider so I'll have to check if I got lucky and it's high volume or if I'll need to swap it.

I'm not looking forward to changing it. The tight space and the likely hood of a bolt snapping...

I'll see if I can spot the casting #s next time I'm crawling around.

Speaking of the oil passages, I noticed oil likes to sit in the valve covers. Not sure if that's completely normal or if it could be a blocked passage. It will sit at about 3/4 the way up the cam and will take a couple weeks to drain down.
PXL_20230116_134104071.jpg

Either it's normal or very concerning (or result of over filling). Another reason why I haven't ran it long yet.

I really appreciate all the help on this forum, especially the part #s when applicable. Between you guys and the guy that sold it to me support has been awesome.
 
Water pump is a PITA while engine is in the car. Rotating the pulley and then getting the pulley out.

The difference between the pumps is the shaft lengths are different as are the pulley depths so swapping from one type to another you have to do all the pulleys and perhaps space the alternator. The Fiat waterpump pulley being flatter make it easier. You’ll have to fabricate some method for the return hose from the coolant tank back to waterpump.

Mine is swapped to Fiat waterpump and pulleys. Advantage is you can still find aluminum Fiat crank pulleys to replace the cast iron with AC compressor belt drive that most Scorpions came with.

Also routed the hose behind strut tower to for more space. Waterpump and timing belt much easier now.
16C5BC33-F130-4895-BCD0-278DDC1C46BB.jpeg
C2439F46-FB7D-48DC-BD18-9A92755D5FDC.jpeg
 
Last edited:
Water pump is a PITA while engine is in the car. Rotating the pulley and then getting the pulley out.

The difference between the pumps is the shaft lengths are different as are the pulley depths so swapping from one type to another you have to do all the pulleys and perhaps space the alternator. The Fiat waterpump pulley being flatter make it easier. You’ll have to fabricate some method for the return hose from the coolant tank back to waterpump.

Mine is swapped to Fiat waterpump and pulleys. Advantage is you can still find aluminum Fiat crank pulleys to replace the cast iron with AC compressor belt drive that most Scorpions came with.

Also routed the hose behind strut tower to for more space. Waterpump and timing belt much easier now.View attachment 70862View attachment 70863
I like the clean look with the hose behind the strut. I've also been considering relocating (if even just slightly) the alternator position. With F.I. it looks like there's potential for contact on the hoses between the rails and the injectors.
 
PXL_20230223_023440206.MP.jpg

PXL_20230223_023503265.jpg

Progress on the brakes. Them and the wheels seem to fit. Also swapped the struts for some fresher ones while in their that I got from the previous owner.

I don't know if it's already common knowledge, but I also found $10 brake fluid reservoirs on eBay that were cheaper than what I found on the typical stores. They didn't have any sort of part number but looked right. So I took a gamble and they're the same size and mount.
 
I pressed the water pump hub further down the shaft and aligned the pulleys using a lancia scorpion water pump and a 2.0L aftermarket crank pulley. Was actually very easy. Didnt have to move much. Now the belt will run true using aftermarket aluminum pulleys.

IMG_6563.JPG
 
The Wilwood front brakes with vented rotors plus Porterfield rear pads really made a huge difference in the way my Scorpion stops. It was a little scary with the stock brakes and no booster. Good call on those.
 
Back
Top