kmead
Old enough to know better
Sorry, the image up above courtesy of JimmyX which shows a blade of steel with the nut and bolt through it with the upper belt mount attached to it.
New seatbelts
- Thread starter Fred Cantin
- Start date
tvmaster
True Classic
The “extension” piece
The factory lap belt retractors are installed at about a 45 degree forward angle. The 3 point retractors from Seat Belts Plus need to
be installed vertically. There doesn't seem to be enough clearance between the mounting hole at the base of the B pillar and the
rear bulkhead to achieve this. Anybody out there mount these at an angle without any issues? From what I can tell the belt doesn't
reel out smoothly when pulled at an angle.
be installed vertically. There doesn't seem to be enough clearance between the mounting hole at the base of the B pillar and the
rear bulkhead to achieve this. Anybody out there mount these at an angle without any issues? From what I can tell the belt doesn't
reel out smoothly when pulled at an angle.
tvmaster
True Classic
I thought about that as well. This site has some good, hidden info. You have to poke around to find it all though. I think these can make a vertical install, as their retractors seem smaller than most companies. The 45 degree angle will come off the upper, B Pillar connection. Securon also includes adapter pieces to get around some tight mounting positions. See what you find:
Seat Belt Tech Specs
Securon manufacture and provide information about a Seat Belt, Seat Belts, Harnesses and Safety Restraints.
www.securon.co.uk
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Just installed Securon 3 point belts. Part # 514/30, uses adjustable retractors. The retractor mounts at the upper B pillar mounting
point. Solves the clearance issue at the lower mount. They are listed as fitting 73-80 MGB roadster. Easy install and they work and look great.
point. Solves the clearance issue at the lower mount. They are listed as fitting 73-80 MGB roadster. Easy install and they work and look great.
tvmaster
True Classic
Pictures please
lots of pictures, bottom and top pillar mounting points. Did you have to use any of the included adapter hardware? Who was the seller?Pics of the install. The retractor extends out about 3/8 inch past the B pillar, same angle as the pillar so looks fine
IMO. Only needed 2 bolts from the hardware kit and no extenders. Seller is sportscarpartsltd, ebay. These are carried by
multiple sellers. Once you get the inertia reels adjusted properly (easy) these belts work at pretty much any angle.
IMO. Only needed 2 bolts from the hardware kit and no extenders. Seller is sportscarpartsltd, ebay. These are carried by
multiple sellers. Once you get the inertia reels adjusted properly (easy) these belts work at pretty much any angle.
tvmaster, upper B pillar mounting point on your 74 looks quite a bit lower than on my 78.
Not sure this same set up would work on your car but I think as long as you have room to mount
the retractor you could pull the belt out horizontally and then down across you to the receiver?
Not sure this same set up would work on your car but I think as long as you have room to mount
the retractor you could pull the belt out horizontally and then down across you to the receiver?
tvmaster
True Classic
Yes, you have a later model, more flexible mount location. I’m pretty stuck doing the reverse I think. So on your install, the only thing anchored up top is the retractor?
How did you decide which Securon model to purchase? On that link I sent you they only listed the 500/30 as compatible with X 1/9’s
Yes, only the retractor is mounted up top, I went with the 514/30 for that reason. The factory 2 point retractor is mounted at a forward
angle so the belt reels out perfectly. Most of the 3 point retractors only mount either vertically or horizontally. The 514 is adjustable to
different angles. You could use an extender on a bottom mount retractor to get away from the bulkhead, but that creates clearance issues
with the seat itself. That's why I couldn't use the 500/30. If you look at the pics of my retractors they are mounted at a slight downward angle
which brings the belt right down across my body and over to the buckle. Take a look at the retractor dimensions in the link you sent me.
You might find that there's room to mount the 514 retractor horizontally at your upper B pillar. You'd need to pull the belt straight out, then
down and across. I'm thinking that's your best bet, But I obviously can't say for sure not being there. One more thing, the 514 upper B pillar
mount eliminates the extra belt run from a floor retractor, up to a B pillar loop, and then over to the buckle. Makes for a simpler install
because you're not bolting both the retractor and the belt end at the same spot.
angle so the belt reels out perfectly. Most of the 3 point retractors only mount either vertically or horizontally. The 514 is adjustable to
different angles. You could use an extender on a bottom mount retractor to get away from the bulkhead, but that creates clearance issues
with the seat itself. That's why I couldn't use the 500/30. If you look at the pics of my retractors they are mounted at a slight downward angle
which brings the belt right down across my body and over to the buckle. Take a look at the retractor dimensions in the link you sent me.
You might find that there's room to mount the 514 retractor horizontally at your upper B pillar. You'd need to pull the belt straight out, then
down and across. I'm thinking that's your best bet, But I obviously can't say for sure not being there. One more thing, the 514 upper B pillar
mount eliminates the extra belt run from a floor retractor, up to a B pillar loop, and then over to the buckle. Makes for a simpler install
because you're not bolting both the retractor and the belt end at the same spot.
tvmaster
True Classic
Okay, that’s making some sense. Thanks for the pics - your car’s in good shape it seems. When you get a chance, a wide, tall shot of the B pillar mount and belt running down towards the bottom mount would help visualize this. Do you feel safer?
And why do you figure Securon lists the 500/30 as the only, compatible system for X 1/9’s?
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jimmyx
True Classic
The early X shoulder belt attachment location can be easily altered, but does require removing the vinyl covering the b-pillar. Once the upholstery is out of the way, take an attachment plate designed for vehicles that were never equipped with shoulder belt mounts and place it in position under the b-pillar interior vent. Mark the center bolt location and the 2 1/8" rivet holes. Drill the bolt hole slightly oversize and the 2 1/8" holes. Tack weld a coat hanger or similar to the top of the attachment plate and feed it through the b-pillar vent opening. Line up the plate so you can securely capture it with the bolt. Once threaded securely, use the bolt to pull the plate toward you and use a 1/8" punch to locate one of the rivet holes so you can install a rivet in the opposite hole. Remove the punch and install the other rivet. The rivets hold the plate in place when the bolt is removed, so now you can twist the coat hanger off the bracket and get ready for the really difficult part of putting the upholstery back together. The plates take about 10 minutes per side - the upholstery; you don't want to know....
Thanks, it's an original 17,000 mile car that I bought 15 years ago. Drove it stock for a couple of years, then a failed fuel line caused a minor fire.
Sidelined it for 12 years while I was busy with life in general. I finally decided it was time to get going on it last summer. Yugo head, 35/75 cam, twin 40 DCNF's and a long tube header with a Borla muffler. It runs strong. Big thanks to Matt at MWB, and especially to Chris Obert at Fiatplus. Chris went
through every system in the car front to back. He did outstanding work and I am very grateful for all his help. I drove a black 76 40 years ago, funny,
I seemed to fit in that one a lot better! And yes I feel much safer with the 3 point belts. I wouldn't pay much attention to what Securon says about
fitment, the limited mounting space in our X's is the biggest issue. I'll get that pic for you soon.
tvmaster
True Classic
In the first photo, where is the retractor anchored into the B Pillar? Is it in the center of the pillar, or the side? So close it‘s hard to tell. I‘m starting to see why the 514 system may be easier to implement, but my lower nut location is still of concern.
tvmaster
True Classic
One of these may be necessary on the floor depending on you retractor design, no? There’s only one anchor point on the floor as is.
jimmyx
True Classic
Floor can usually be handled with a bolt and a specially designed curved washer. The washer is curved so it won't dig into the floor pan and tear the metal during impact. Most seat belt mounting kits come with the washers. The plate for moving the upper mount is for the 514 install. The retractor will never fit in the '74s lower supplied b-pillar mount. The only thing to double check on the 514 is the inertia lock. That retractor is designed to be a horizontal mount. Make sure if it is mounted vertically that the inertia lock operates properly.
The 514 retractor is adjustable to extend and retract at different angles. I bolted the it to the existing upper mounting hole after removing
the plug as described earlier in this thread. If you look at the pic that shows the extreme close up of the retractor you'll see a knob
at the bottom of the retractor. It has two arrows on it, one showing that it turns in a clockwise direction and one pointing straight up
(the pic is a little deceiving, it points vertically). That knob is attached to the mechanism that is adjusted to determine the horizontal
plane of adjustment. When both of these adjustments are correct the inertia lock will operate at an angle. Look at the pic of my X, the
upper part of the forward edge of the B pillar is where it's mounted. About a 20 degree forward angle I'd say? At the bottom the belt end
is anchored where the factory retractor was originally bolted, it's on the vertical part of the door sill as opposed to the floor itself. Jimmy is
right, the retractor wont fit down at the floor behind the seat. One of the features I liked about the 514 retractor mounting above rather than
below is that the belt runs only from the lower mount to the upper, there's no need to bolt two belt ends at the bottom mount. I went out
and looked at the belt set up in my Mercedes before I bought the 514, it has the retractor IN the upper B pillar as opposed to ON it but
same result. The tongue that latches into the seat belt buckle (on your right side when sitting in the car) is on the run of belt between the
upper and lower mount, so the belt goes from the lower mount, across your lap, and to the retractor behind your head. My truck also has
the same set up with the retractor mounted at the top of the seat back over my left shoulder. Take a look at your other vehicles, you'll
probably see the same set up I've described. So looks to me like the issue for you is the low factory B pillar mounting point on the 74 X.
That link that you sent me has diagrams with dimensions of the various retractor types Securon offers. Check those out and do some
measuring, that should give you an idea whether or not you'll have to raise the upper B pillar mount to get the 514/30 to work for you.
If the retractor will bolt to the existing upper mount horizontally without having to raise the mount hole you would then be able to sit in
the car and pull the belt straight out to the front, then bring it down across your body and to the buckle. Not ideal, but workable.
the plug as described earlier in this thread. If you look at the pic that shows the extreme close up of the retractor you'll see a knob
at the bottom of the retractor. It has two arrows on it, one showing that it turns in a clockwise direction and one pointing straight up
(the pic is a little deceiving, it points vertically). That knob is attached to the mechanism that is adjusted to determine the horizontal
plane of adjustment. When both of these adjustments are correct the inertia lock will operate at an angle. Look at the pic of my X, the
upper part of the forward edge of the B pillar is where it's mounted. About a 20 degree forward angle I'd say? At the bottom the belt end
is anchored where the factory retractor was originally bolted, it's on the vertical part of the door sill as opposed to the floor itself. Jimmy is
right, the retractor wont fit down at the floor behind the seat. One of the features I liked about the 514 retractor mounting above rather than
below is that the belt runs only from the lower mount to the upper, there's no need to bolt two belt ends at the bottom mount. I went out
and looked at the belt set up in my Mercedes before I bought the 514, it has the retractor IN the upper B pillar as opposed to ON it but
same result. The tongue that latches into the seat belt buckle (on your right side when sitting in the car) is on the run of belt between the
upper and lower mount, so the belt goes from the lower mount, across your lap, and to the retractor behind your head. My truck also has
the same set up with the retractor mounted at the top of the seat back over my left shoulder. Take a look at your other vehicles, you'll
probably see the same set up I've described. So looks to me like the issue for you is the low factory B pillar mounting point on the 74 X.
That link that you sent me has diagrams with dimensions of the various retractor types Securon offers. Check those out and do some
measuring, that should give you an idea whether or not you'll have to raise the upper B pillar mount to get the 514/30 to work for you.
If the retractor will bolt to the existing upper mount horizontally without having to raise the mount hole you would then be able to sit in
the car and pull the belt straight out to the front, then bring it down across your body and to the buckle. Not ideal, but workable.
tvmaster
True Classic
yeah, I'm pretty sure the 514 system won't work on a '74 - nut's too low. The 500/30 retractor measurements are no bigger than the factory retractor that's on the floor now, but the FIAT retractor is tapered a touch. There's another thread here where someone else connected to the upper B pilar, but had to use the extender bracket that Securon supplies to get the belt anchor out beyond the back shelf.
If you get time for that wider shot of your upper B pillar that would be great