New to the forum and new X1/9 owner

WNC_Bertone

WNC_Bertone

New Member
Referred to you all as the go-to forum for all things X1/9.

I was the high bidder on the white 87 Bertone on BAT. Hopefully I didn't buy a can of worms, but having owned a lot of British cars over the years, I know to have realistic expectations.

The car has a claimed mileage of just over 30k miles. It hasn't been driven much more than 100 or so miles over the last 3 or 4 years, so that's probably more like 10 years.

I am looking for a starting point of immediate things to go through on the car to get it up to par.

Thanks!

Travis
 
Welcome to Xweb Travis! :)

I saw that car on BAT and was wondering how it would turn out. The car looks like it is decent shape. Hopefully it will treat you well. We will be here to help.
 
Welcome! Looking forward to some pics of your beauty - don't forget engine bay, etc., it's not just the exterior we like to see :)
 
Welcome. Congrats on the car. We are very happy to have you join us. Nice looking car.

I would recommend you buy the factory repair manual and the Haynes manual to understand the various systems.

Just a suggestion: When you have a problem, please ask here about the job. Collectively we have dealt with most every issue these cars have. We can give you tips, suggestions or point you in the direction of often illustrated procedures for fixing the problem. This forum has 20 years of history and members who have been here that whole time. We are open to answering questions, please ask.

The late cars were well built and fixed many of the niggling problems but some of the base design continues to have the problems of it the base design. The brake calipers are an archaic design (now) that requires more maintenance than a modern car's systems. Flexible hoses are flexible hoses and all of them will fail or collapse which can cause problems. You will likely need to update the master cylinders for the clutch and the brake system, it has been voted the worst job to complete on the car with good reason. The electrical system in general is reliable but you may need to go around the car to clean the ground points to make it the best it can be. The coolant system works well but when the coolant is changed it can be difficult to bleed due to its length and the the elevation of the different parts in relation to each other.

Most parts are available either as new, lightly used or reproduced. We are lucky that there are some great vendors who can provide parts:
Mid West Bayless in Ohio http://midwest-bayless.com/
Fiat Plus in California www.fiatplus.com
Vicks Auto in Texas http://vickauto.com/
Henk Martin in the Netherlands http://www.x19partsholland.nl/
Eurosport in the UK http://www.eurosport-uk.net/shop/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=1
X1/9 Spares in the UK http://shop.x19spares.co.uk/

There is of course Ebay and our own for sale section on the forum.

Have a look at the rocker just forward of the drivers door. It looks like it has had some work in that area at the crease between the body side and the transition to the rocker panel. It also looks like the door catch is broken which has allowed the door to be creased. Midwest has a non OE replacement that works better than the OE.

Looks to be a number of dings and other damage to panels and edges. Happily it is white so easily matched.

In any case, congrats and welcome to the forum.
 
+1 to Karl's suggestion on checking here first. This is a very responsive forum, with answers sometimes in minutes! There is a reason why people here ask quite a few non fiat questions because of the knowledge and speedy answers. I have been on forums that took weeks before some responses. I don think I have seen one question go unanswered for a day, and believe me, I ask some very odd questions.

Welcome!!!!

Odie
 
WNC_Bertone said:
Referred to you all as the go-to forum for all things X1/9.

I was the high bidder on the white 87 Bertone on BAT. Hopefully I didn't buy a can of worms, but having owned a lot of British cars over the years, I know to have realistic expectations.

The car has a claimed mileage of just over 30k miles. It hasn't been driven much more than 100 or so miles over the last 3 or 4 years, so that's probably more like 10 years.

I am looking for a starting point of immediate things to go through on the car to get it up to par.

Thanks!

Travis
Click to expand...


Good luck with your new baby!

I posted in For Sale & Wanted that since the car was close to me (I'm in Philadelphia, it was in Cherry Hill, NJ, about a half hour ride) I was available for an on-site inspection if anyone was a serious buyer. I can still do it if you think you might be getting cold feet or buyers remorse :)

As far as driving or transport, I'd go with transport unless you are picking up the car and then driving directly to a tire store for new tires. The sidewall code says the tires were made in week 09 of the 7th year of the decade 1990, so they are from March 1997, which regardless of how they look, is a safety hazard for anything more than a trip around the block. An '87 would have come stock with 185/60R13 tires, but what is on the car right now are 175/70R13, an acceptable substitute (and the OEM size on some earlier years), especially since the two tires in the original size that are available in the USA (Federal and Achillies) are economy tires at best.
 
I am assuming the car is in NJ? If that is the case you could transport or tow dolly. You would only need a few tools to prepare for the trip. As Dan states you will need to address tires... But only two for a tow. If you are really adventurous you could just drive it back... But that could be at best unsafe and at worst increase cost to aquire by a lot.
If you use a dolly, which I did from Michigan, you will want to drop the rear axles. I don't know if I ever read a firm answer concerning the need for this but it is cheap insurance and you can clean/inspect/repair axles! It is only 24 hex head bolts and can be done pretty easily. Watch the front inner fenders when loading/unloading especially if you are doing the unload in WNC. Uneven surfaces can work for you but will likely work against you.
Looks like a pretty solid car. If you liked sitting in it wait until drive it! Papa Tony will give you the work on/drive ratio but the newest cars are pretty reliable in stock form as Karl said.
Hussain, the ad is still on BaT. Check it out lots of photos and some videos.
http://bringatrailer.com/listing/19...mail&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=2017-08-14
Regards
 
A tow dolly is an easy way to transport them, no need to pull the axles as the transmission will self lubricate.

New tires for sure. When I went to pick up my 1987 with what looked like brand new tires I was like Score! And then I inspected them to find cracks through all the rubber down to the cords. Happily I brought two known good, newer tires with me.

Karl
 
Things to do?
All the normal things you would do in any car of this age.

Belts, hoses, fluids. Use GL 1 transmission oil not GL 5, 3 quarts. Coolant should be standard low phosphate, one if the best to use is the VW spec one for the A1/A2 bodied cars as these cars have similar materials in the system. Don't mix long life coolants in with the materials in the car.
Timing belt when you get to it as it is a non interference engine. Buy a new bearing with the belt
Brake and clutch fluid for sure, DOT 3 or 4, I have good luck with Valvoline Synthetic.
New pads and rotors, they are cheap and at least you know where you are, high temp silicone grease on the sliders for the calipers.
Brake line flex hoses should be replaced if you can't find history from the last 5 years.
Coolant hoses if old, order new proper clamps (Jubilee) not the stainless ones with the holes. Midwest has a sale this week on Cooling parts including clamps
Did anyone mention tires? Walmart has Federal 185/60 13s on sale and Tires Easy has both Federal and Achilles in that size. Other appropriate sizes are 175/65 13, 165/70 13. Other sizes including 175/70 can rub at full lock on some Xs due to the caster setting.

An alignment would be good though it looks pretty much right in in the pics

New wipers.
It was hard to tell if the headlights are halogens, if not replace the old Wagner sealed beams which last forever, dully.

That should get you started
 
kmead said:
A tow dolly is an easy way to transport them, no need to pull the axles as the transmission will self lubricate.


Karl
Click to expand...

I sort of thought that was the case... I must have read a note on the Uhaul site that gave the recommendation. I understand that the site could not possibly cover every make and model correctly so they err on the side of caution. In my case both axles required new boots and repacking so it worked out to be a head start!
Regards
 
Thanks to everyone for the quick advice! I am planning on shipping it as the math/risk payoff is almost the same as flying/driving (650 mile drive one way).

Dan, I wish I had seen this forum and your offer beforehand. I hate buying sight unseen, but it appears to be an honest car from the photos. Owner is "not a car guy" which always gives me pause. But, I always follow through on commitments, so everyone keep your fingers crossed for me!

Probably will do the following:
-Full brake rebuild: caliper kits, hoses, master cylinder, pads, rotors, DOT 5 fluid? I use that in all my British cars
-Cooling system flush, new hoses and clamps
-Engine and transaxle oil change of course; GL1? Is Synchromesh an alternative to this?
-Cap, Rotor, Plugs, Any recommendations?
-Tires: Achilles? 185/60/13
-Wheel bearings? Any good source for these? I prefer Timken, but you all are the experts

Any experience with parts from RockAuto? They appear to have a lot of brake parts there for reasonable prices.

Trying to keep this project simple, and not develop "shipwrights disease" like I have on other projects.
 
I have an '87 with 50K miles that had been sitting untouched for over a decade. Mine needed tons of work to get it running again -- neglect is very hard on these cars. Yours is at least a runner so you are off to a better start than I was. But, you will likely face many of the same issues from age so here are my lessons learned...

  1. Brake and clutch master cylinders are mounted under the dash. Reservoirs are on the passenger side under the front trunk lid. The rubber hoses that connect them should be replaced. It's not hard but does require patience and limber bones. I would go ahead and replace the master cylinders while you are under there, I replaced mine even though there were no signs of leaking (I only wanted to have to crawl under that dash once.)
  2. Clutch slave cylinder and rubber line should also be replaced.
  3. Replace all rubber brake hoses. Probably a good idea to go ahead and rebuild the calipers as well. The fronts are a piece of cake. The rears are a little more challenging.
  4. I would replace all of the high pressure fuel hoses and filter. Mine obviously needed replacing because they were leaking. But even if yours are not leaking yet they likely will in the near future, especially if they are original (30 year old rubber under high fuel pressure.) Again, not hard but it does require some patience. Midwest-Bayless can sell you a fuel hose kit with all the pieces already cut to size. Make sure you depressurize the system first -- I forgot that part and took a little sponge bath in 15 year old gasoline.
  5. Speedo cable will likely need replacing. At the very least, disassembled and lubed. I had to do this twice (long story) the first time I contemplated suicide but the second time was actually not bad at all.
I thought mine was rust-free. It mostly is but I did find some hidden cancer in a few spots. The worst being on the rear cross member but it was completely unnoticeable until I removed the exhaust system and all of the heat shields. The next worst spot was in the right bottom corner of the rear trunk. Both were easy to fix.

Good luck. I was watching that car on BAT. I really like the white, it looks like it will polish up real nice.
 
WNC_Bertone said:
Thanks to everyone for the quick advice! I am planning on shipping it as the math/risk payoff is almost the same as flying/driving (650 mile drive one way).

Dan, I wish I had seen this forum and your offer beforehand. I hate buying sight unseen, but it appears to be an honest car from the photos. Owner is "not a car guy" which always gives me pause. But, I always follow through on commitments, so everyone keep your fingers crossed for me!

Probably will do the following:
-Full brake rebuild: caliper kits, hoses, master cylinder, pads, rotors, DOT 5 fluid? I use that in all my British cars
-Cooling system flush, new hoses and clamps
-Engine and transaxle oil change of course; GL1? Is Synchromesh an alternative to this?
-Cap, Rotor, Plugs, Any recommendations?
-Tires: Achilles? 185/60/13
-Wheel bearings? Any good source for these? I prefer Timken, but you all are the experts

Any experience with parts from RockAuto? They appear to have a lot of brake parts there for reasonable prices.

Trying to keep this project simple, and not develop "shipwrights disease" like I have on other projects.
Click to expand...

A good list.

I would leave the wheel bearings alone until they actually require service. The late bearings last a long time with few issues. New bearings are available but are not quite as good quality. The late front hubs are different from the pre'85 hubs and are hard to service. I believe MWB has them fully done. In any case I would leave them be until they need service. (I have never had to replace the bearings on the post 1980 cars)

If you can get the hydraulic systems clean enough, Dot5 is always a good option but purging everything can be difficult in an X. The system is convoluted and hard to service. You will need to remove the drivers seat which is easy on a late car. Loosen the front bolts of the tracks enough to be above the face of the track then slide the seat all the way forward and remove the rear seat track bolts and the seat will no lift out when you slide it just another inch forward to take advantage of the key hole slots at the front of the tracks.

Cap and rotor should be Bosch if you can find it, MWB has a good substitute. Wires from the new post on the for sale forum, I have found none better. Plugs, I have run Bosch and NGK. I tend to prefer NGK BP6ES work well as I recall.

Oil is always a subject, GL 1 due to the materials used in the syncros and shift forks. Synthetic would be best.

I have a set of Achilles 122's from Tireseasy, a bit soft but a good H rated tire. You will find that an X rides very well for a short wheel base car that also handles phenomenally out of the box.

Rockauto is hit or miss. I have not had great luck with generic parts in general but that's me.

Once you get the car set up it is pretty much set it and forget it. The injection system just plain works well and is very reliable. Just be sure to start the car at least a couple times per year and lace it with gas stabilizer.

I am in the midst of resurrecting an 87 I bought in May so I can relate as I am going through and redoing many of the same things you will be.
 
I would echo the fuel hoses, very important and sorry I missed that in my list. I had one fail on my 1985, at startup thankfully, which produced a cascade of fuel all over. Given the proximity of the injectors and the exhaust manifold it takes nothing to have one burn down if this isn't dealt with.

Make sure you get the right high pressure hose. 7.5mm ID. Accept nothing else, no SAE sizes that are "close". Close is not good enough. I bought the bulk hose and new rings for my redo, I don't like the clamps but the clamps are equally safe and are serviceable, all available from MWB.
 
Karl, thanks for all the information, that gives me a head start on pre-visioning what I need to tackle. Regarding the fuel hoses, do I need to remove the intake to do this or can I do it in-situ?

Huey, sounds like I am about to go down the same road with a trip under the dash, but after working on MG Midgets and Spitfires, I have mastered the art of skillful maneuver in tight spots.
 
Unfortunately the upper part of the intake needs to come off.

You will want to order the hoses, either the fuel injection clamps or the OE collar locks and new seals with o rings for the injectors. MWB has a complete kit or you can piece it together.

Four bolts at the manifold intersection, unhook the intake hose, the accelerator cable at the valve cover and then the various vacuum lines, the fuel line to the cold start injector, undo the bracket for the pressure regulator and you can set the whole thing to the side.

The injector fuel rail will be before you. Undo the two cap screws per injector (be prepared to replace them as they can strip out) and the injectors and and fuel rail can be removed when you undo the compression fitting from the hard line on the left as you face the engine from the rear of the car.

Use the existing lines as guides to cutting the new lines. There is a high pressure line from the pump, next to the gas tank outlet in front of the left end of the transmission, to the fuel filter (also needs replacement)and then a high pressure line from the filter to the hard line that leads to the fuel rail. The line after the pressure regulator is low pressure but I use high pressure line there and at the end of that hard line into the fuel tank return fitting.

The following picture from the manual shows everything (but for some reason the fuel rail is show bass ackwards, the regulator should be to the right in this view)

IMG_1441.PNG



IMG_1442.PNG


The manual can be downloaded from the wiki here: http://xwebforums.com/wiki/images/0/0b/X19_Service_Manual_1979_to_1982_USA_Final.pdf
Although not the exact one for your year it covers the systems that have not changed.
 
WNC_Bertone said:
Karl, thanks for all the information, that gives me a head start on pre-visioning what I need to tackle. Regarding the fuel hoses, do I need to remove the intake to do this or can I do it in-situ?

Huey, sounds like I am about to go down the same road with a trip under the dash, but after working on MG Midgets and Spitfires, I have mastered the art of skillful maneuver in tight spots.
Click to expand...

You just wait...
 
rocco79/138 said:
sort of thought that was the case... I must have read a note on the Uhaul site that gave the recommendation.
Click to expand...
What the Uhaul site knows about 80's vintage transaxles would not fill a small teacup (and to be fair, their business is not about catering to old and uncommon cars, so no reason why they would do anything except say no). Just tell them that you're going to be towing a Triumph Spitfire and they'll be happy.
 
The spoiler is on backwards...

X19_0869.jpg


I wonder if it came from Ramsey Motors (Paramus) like mine - mine was also bought new in 1990 (in NJ).
 
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