No power

Discussion in 'Workshop Forum' started by Tavalin, Oct 11, 2019.

  1. Tavalin

    Tavalin Michael Motorcycle

    Location:
    Tampa, Florida
    Hello again everyone.
    I have changed out the aftermarket distributor and placed the original Bosch rebuilt one back in and rewired back to original.
    I left the new coil in place. Reset the timing to plus 10 degrees using the flywheel mark. Now on the test drive there was not much power and the X1/9 kept stalling out. I do not know what went wrong.
    So, I figure it could be the coil or the timing is still out a few degrees.
    Pic of the coil is below.
    Your thoughts are much appreciated...
    Mike
    87AE8E75-E94E-41F3-BDAA-A4C9C6D75B3E.jpeg
     
  2. NEG

    NEG True Classic

    Location:
    UK
    Is that a 12v rated coil with a ballast resistor? What’s the voltage at the coil?
     
    kmead likes this.
  3. Tavalin

    Tavalin Michael Motorcycle

    Location:
    Tampa, Florida
    It states a 12volt coil. Should I take the resistor out like the aftermarket distributor required?
    Mike
     
  4. NEG

    NEG True Classic

    Location:
    UK
    Put the old coil back in place.
     
  5. NEG

    NEG True Classic

    Location:
    UK
    I'd better explain that. That coil is likely to be 3 ohms on the primary, at 12v nominal the coil will draw 12/3 = 4A or closer to 4.6A when the car is running.

    The ballast resistor is going to be something like 1.5 ohms, 1.5 x 4 = 6 volts. Thats how much voltage will be dropped across the ballast resistor, so the coil will in effect see approx. 6v or when running ~7v.

    I was going to say remove the L shaped spade connector on the Ballast and connect it to the coil directly but I'm not confident in recommending that as I don't know if the Bosch ignition module would like it.
     
  6. Tavalin

    Tavalin Michael Motorcycle

    Location:
    Tampa, Florida
    Thank you for the advice. The old coil is a MSD coil and the ignition module is the upgraded version from one of our forum members.
    I am going to dig through all my stuff and try to find the original coil that came with the X when I purchased it.
    I thought it might be the coil. The aftermarket distributor had its own ignition module the bypassed the ballast resistor. I wished I had more specs on the system.
    Thanks, going to troubleshoot this morning.
    Mike
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2019
  7. ghostdancing

    ghostdancing True Classic

    Location:
    italy
    Mike what is exaclty this aftermarket unit? any pics of it?
     
  8. Tavalin

    Tavalin Michael Motorcycle

    Location:
    Tampa, Florida
    Here are the pics... the site now has it on sale (of course). It got me to the car show but didn’t like the mods I had to do to get it to work. It bypassed the ballast resistor.
    While installing it the green wire fell out of the ignition module and I had to tear it apart and solder it on the board.
    Not the best product but did the job.
    Maybe something I can salvage from it.
    Mike
    C33146B3-0ABB-4B63-8C3C-2B1214AC15AA.jpeg 13D22AC9-32F7-44A9-A2D7-B79EF39BD7FF.jpeg
     
  9. ghostdancing

    ghostdancing True Classic

    Location:
    italy
    this is the marelli (cheap clone?) breakerless distributor, i have one (original marelli SE100CX) in my car (1300 128 coupe) and it works great; the electronic module called BK4L is easily available as spare (25,00 eu here in italy); it must work with his coil marelli BAE506F like this:

    https://www.ebay.it/itm/BOBINA-ACCE...568937?hash=item41e4af50a9:g:CKMAAOSw0cJbI8lZ

    no ballast resistor required; hi volt leads must be the "coil" type.. just connect the 2 wires (6 in the scheme) to the coil

    the bosch system is very similar (inductive breakerless) and known as a very good unit, though

    here the schematic wiring nlublh.jpg
     
  10. Tavalin

    Tavalin Michael Motorcycle

    Location:
    Tampa, Florida
    Thanks,
    I rebuilt the original Bosch that was in the X1/9 attached to an MSD coil and ballast resistor (also original) and placed the Bosch back into the X. I only purchased the aftermarket one to get me and Gary to the Sarasota car show. The aftermarket distributor required a different coil and wiring.
    Now that I have the original Bosch back in I am thinking the coil needs to go back to a different one than the aftermarket distributor required.
    I am going to dig through my parts to see if I can find the coil that came with the X and leave the MSD coil off.
    I think the coil is wrong and don’t want to bypass the ballast resistor to see if that would work.
    What coil Should I get that will work with the 1986 Bertone 1500 with a Bosch distributor?

    Mike
     
  11. Tavalin

    Tavalin Michael Motorcycle

    Location:
    Tampa, Florida
    I replaced the coil I purchased for the aftermarket distributor back to the one that came with the X. The Bosch distributor is connected the way it was prior to the replacement, back to factory. Now, the X starts but will not idol. As long as I keep the throttle above 1200rpms the engine is fine. No smoke or back fires. Runs perfect with plenty of power. When I release the peddle to idol it dies almost immediately. I hope I didn’t damage the ignition module with the aftermarket stuff.
    I checked the timing and made a slight adjustment but it keeps stalling.
    Any advise would be greatly appreciated.
    Thanks,
    Mike
     
  12. Yves

    Yves True Classic

    Search in the forum
    "Bosch ICM modification with GM HEI"
    Discussion in 'Workshop Forum' started by Yves, Jan 15, 2017.
    I have a similar issue when i modify my ignition module, i need to replace the coil with a new one.
     
    Tavalin likes this.
  13. Tavalin

    Tavalin Michael Motorcycle

    Location:
    Tampa, Florida
    Yves,
    I pulled all the spark plugs and cleaned and regaled them to ensure good spark. However, reading your thread I found this...
    “Try reversing the wires from the reluctor (distributor input). Note that the signal from the reluctor is polarised. Even though the engine will run with an "upside down" signal, the zero crossing point will be different. See: http://www.useasydocs.com/theory/pickups.htm
    I am assuming the the “reluctor” is the ballast resistor.
    I will try this and see.
    Thank you... still reading through your thread.
    Mike
     
  14. NEG

    NEG True Classic

    Location:
    UK
    Mike the reluctor is in the distributor, it’s not the ballast resistor.
     
  15. Yves

    Yves True Classic

    In my case with the ICM module the final solution was to replace the coil with a new Bosch 00105, the coil don't need the ballast resistor.
     
  16. NEG

    NEG True Classic

    Location:
    UK
    Yves, what is the primary resistance of the Bosch 00105?

    Mike may be able to measure his Bosch unit pictured above and use that without the ballast although I note it is a ballast coil
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2019
  17. Tavalin

    Tavalin Michael Motorcycle

    Location:
    Tampa, Florida
    NEG,
    The unit above (white cap) was too long and penetrated into the spare tire area. I replaced it with the original Bosch distributor that I rebuilt and replaced the Bosch coil that I used with the aftermarket white cap distributor. Now I have the original Bosch coil with the original Bosch distributor.
    The X1/9 starts and runs but will not idol. I have two wires on the negative side (one from the ignition module and one for the tach) of the coil and one on the positive side (from the ignition module) of the coil. The positive side comes from the ballast resistor.
    The X1/9 stats well, runs but at about 1100 rpms just shuts off.
    I rechecked the timing, pulled the spark plugs and cleaned and re-gapped them and still will not idol.
    Now, I have a new Bosch coil that was for the aftermarket distributor and replaced it with the old original distributor. Now, the aftermarket system (new coil) didn’t have a ballast resistor in line. Now I have the original coil with the ballast resistor in line.
    I believe I have everything back to original specks.
    Oh, the ignition module was upgraded by someone here on the forum with the GM mod.
    I will try and get measurements tomorrow but that will require an extra set of hands a feet.

    Please, advise me in what to do to solve this issue.
    It is getting beautiful outside here in Florida and I would love to drive the X around with Gary.
    Mike
     
  18. Yves

    Yves True Classic

    NEG, I just checked and I measured between .9 and 1 ohms on the primary side.
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2019 at 3:46 PM
  19. Yves

    Yves True Classic

    Ta
    Final setup description:
    • Original Bosch distributor
    • The ICM Bosch was modify with the GM HEI and add Heat Sink on the cover
    GMHEI_Schematic_Mod_for_Ignition_Contol_Module.jpg
    • Install new Bosch coil #00105 without the ballast resistor (That coil don't need ballast resistor)
    ScreenShot015.jpg

    • Install a heatsink on the cover.
    ScreenShot016.jpg

    The problem I had with the new HEI GM module with the original coil is a bad idle and when I quickly press on the accelerator pedal, the engine hesitates.

    I know it is not all people had that symptom of bad idle with the GM HEI and original Bosch coil but it was my case.
    The new Bosch 00105 fix my issue since two years now.

    Yves
     
    NEG likes this.
  20. Ics19

    Ics19 belle macchine!

    Location:
    UK
    Just for reference, what was the ignition module used in this mod? If it was a HEI replacement like Yves mentioned in his thread then you need a matching very low primary transistor ignition coil like the 105 he used as the module regulates the current to 6A or so as required - no ballast is used in this setup. Not all modules are alike, and some better across the rev range. Yves has fundamentally the same setup as the 124 uses (as pictured in his thread), but ideally needs the big heatsink as well. I,m not sure putting one of these HEI modules back in the stock X1/9 case with minimal heatsink is a good idea, but that's for another day...
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2019 at 3:18 PM
    kmead and NEG like this.

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