Oil Cooler

Discussion in 'X1/20 Forum' started by lanciahf, Nov 21, 2019.

  1. lanciahf

    lanciahf True Classic

    Location:
    New Jersey
    Has anyone ever added an oil cooler to their scorpion? Since airflow is hard to come by back there I was thinking something like the water exchanger units. Sort of what VW used to use.
     
  2. Pete Whitstone

    Pete Whitstone True Classic

    Location:
    McKinney, TX
    Why wouldn't you run it to the front, like the water radiator?
     
  3. lanciahf

    lanciahf True Classic

    Location:
    New Jersey
    Long run for the oil pump? Loss of pressure? Not sure, figured I would ask to see what others have done.
     
  4. Dr.Jeff

    Dr.Jeff True Classic

    Location:
    Sin City
    The VW water/oil cooler unit can easily be added to the Fiat engine. Fiat has the same threads and filter mounting size as VW. So it will bolt up the same way it does on a VW, sandwiched between the block and filter.

    It just hit me. I'm referring to the SOHC Fiat so I can't say for certain about the DOHC. Do they use the same basic size filter as the SOHC? Also I don't know if the Scorpion has room below the oil filter for the extended length of the VW cooler?

    You can get the VW coolers fairly inexpensively, so might be worth a try. However be aware there has been some instances of the VW style cooler leaking and mixing oil/water. Plus, while they help to warm up cold oil, they aren't as effective at cooling really hot oil when compared to other types of coolers.

    Another option might be to use the 'stacked plate' type oil cooler with a small electric fan attached. They work really well. And the fan can be set set up on a thermo switch to regulate the cooling level.

    I'm a huge proponent of adding a oil cooler to any engine, but especially one that is mounted midship (e.g. X1/9 or Scorpion). Seems we do not discuss them much on Xweb; tons of talk about upgrading the water cooling system, but almost none on adding oil coolers. Which makes me think not many Fiat owners have added oil coolers?
     
  5. lanciahf

    lanciahf True Classic

    Location:
    New Jersey
    Thanks Jeff, I do have a photo where looks like someone mounted a cooler near the rear grill with a fan.
    oil_cooler.jpg
     
  6. BEEK

    BEEK True Classic

    Location:
    Clermont Fl
    I have both, A heat exchanger type and a air cooled type. I will probably use the air cooled type and pull air from under the car using a naca duct and a fan. I am running dry sump with a 3 stage external pump
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2019
    Dr.Jeff likes this.
  7. Dr.Jeff

    Dr.Jeff True Classic

    Location:
    Sin City
    Along with a bigger engine. :)

    Sorry it's been too long since I had a DOHC engine to recall what filter they have. And those were 124's, never had a Scorpion. So I really can't say about the VW water/oil cooler fitting or not in your case. I build VW's in addition to Fiat's and I have VW oil filter adaptors for remotely mounted oil coolers (stacked plate type, like in the pic you posted) on my SOHC engines. So I know the VW water/oil cooler will fit those engine blocks.

    I think there are pluses and minuses to each type of cooler. But I firmly believe any cooler is better than no cooler.
    Just be aware there are complaints of failures with the VW water/oil ones. However it's hard to say if those were the result of deficient servicing of the coolant, etc, or what.
    You can buy neat kits with the electric fan mounted on a stacked plate oil cooler. Or you could make simple brackets to mount your own small fan. Here's some examples what they look like with a fan (different mounting methods):

    fp434erl_0118158.jpg 600017_Flex-a-lite_600x600.jpg 61sOTnyHHOL._SX425_.jpg

    Whatever you do, do NOT use these attachments to mount any electric fan on any cooler/radiator:
    s-l300.jpg


    Here is the VW unit mounted on a VW engine:

    1 before.JPG
    The white arrow is the stock oil filter mount on the block (it's a bolt on extension off the block). The yellow arrow is the oil cooler. And naturally below that is the filter. So you can see the cooler is kind of sandwiched between the filter and mount, with a longer center post that holds it.

    The VW units come in different sizes/configurations:

    oilcoolers_1.8T_S4_PD.jpg

    This is what the remote cooler adapter looks like. It fits similar to the cooler above, sandwiched between the filter and mount, with ports for hose fittings to run to the cooler and back:

    images.jpg

    By the way, the threaded fitting for the oil filters on VW's and Fiat's (SOHC at least) are also the same for some American cars. So lots of adaptors (and filters) are available out there that will work.
     
  8. BEEK

    BEEK True Classic

    Location:
    Clermont Fl
    Ok, I did not go here. But I am obsessive.

    I have the 3rd cooler from the left on jeffs post, it is a chrysler cooler (oil cooler filter adapter) I may also run it on my scorpion with the air cooler.
     
  9. Pete Whitstone

    Pete Whitstone True Classic

    Location:
    McKinney, TX
    I ran a front cooler on my X1/9 race car. I don’t see why the same couldn’t be done on a Scorpion.
     
  10. Dr.Jeff

    Dr.Jeff True Classic

    Location:
    Sin City
    Possibly off one of the 4-cyl FWD Chrysler products that used VW engines? I'm just guessing because that unit is the one most commonly used by VW on engines from the same era as the Chryslers.
     
  11. Dr.Jeff

    Dr.Jeff True Classic

    Location:
    Sin City
    Pete, it would certainly work. But I have to say that on a street driven car, with lots of start-up/shut-down cycles, stop/go traffic conditions, climate fluctuations, etc, the delay in getting the oil to circulate through the longish lines (to the front of the car) might be more of an issue than on a racer where it is allowed plenty of warm-up and driven at constant high RPM's for occasional durations. Perhaps if some sort of anti-drainback valve was added to keep the cooler and lines full of oil at all times, then it would avoid the delay in building oil pressure. Or even one of the oil thermostat units mounted near the block, so the oil isn't sent through the path to the cooler until after engine warm-up (and therefore after full oil pressure has been achieved in the engine). Maybe I'm just too conservative, but I hate seeing the lag in oil pressure with normal engine start-up, let alone any system that might delay it longer. Again, for a street car anyway. Otherwise the front mounted cooler location is ideal in terms of air flow and heat exchange.
     
  12. Pete Whitstone

    Pete Whitstone True Classic

    Location:
    McKinney, TX
    If the purpose is getting the oil to cool down (and it is), then remember that it's not just the cooler in the front of the car that is shedding the heat. Everything that touches the hot oil is taking part in shedding the heat, including those long lines.

    I'm not really sure what direction you are taking with the anti-drainback thing. That is only a concern at startup. After that, it doesn't really matter if you are idling along or screaming at full RPM, those lines are full. If they're not, you've got a real problem, because those air bubbles are going to go into your engine.
     
  13. Dr.Jeff

    Dr.Jeff True Classic

    Location:
    Sin City
    I don't disagree with anything you stated at all. However keep in mind that "start up" is where something like 90% of engine wear happens. And for a street car start ups happen a LOT more frequently than for a race car. I have similar concerns with the engine's water cooling system - those long lines for the pump to overcome.
     
  14. Pete Whitstone

    Pete Whitstone True Classic

    Location:
    McKinney, TX
    For startup, on my race car, I also ran an Accusump. It's a thing of beauty to see 40 psi of oil pressure before you hit the start button.
     
    Dr.Jeff likes this.
  15. Dr.Jeff

    Dr.Jeff True Classic

    Location:
    Sin City
    Absolutely! I've often considered some sort of "automatic" arrangement for something like the Accusump, suitable for regular street use. It isn't difficult to plumb, but I'm not certain how it would work in real world applications. Sure would be great though.
     
  16. lanciahf

    lanciahf True Classic

    Location:
    New Jersey
    Thanks all for the suggestions. I'm intrigued by the Chrysler cooler, Looks like they are used on most of the chrysler products, PT Cruiser, 300, Jeeps etc. Thanks Beek! I'm planning on running a Fiat Spider 2000 Oil Filter housing so I should have plenty of room.
     
  17. Pete Whitstone

    Pete Whitstone True Classic

    Location:
    McKinney, TX
    Not sure what you mean, an Accusump IS an automatic thing. It only has 1 wired connection, you give it 12V when the ignition goes on. Other than that it operates autonomously and provides oil pressure whenever oil pressure is low, be that on startup, or when all the oil has run away from the pickup in a long corner, or whatever.
     
  18. Dr.Jeff

    Dr.Jeff True Classic

    Location:
    Sin City
    I was thinking in terms of when it's used on a street car. I'm not sure how well they maintain the holding pressure over time, or what other concerns there might be compared to a race car. Very different scenario to just jump in and crank a street car several times every day, without going over all the systems and verifying things before starting like I do on race engines. Plus I was thinking you might have the manual valve type - that's what I had on my race car. The electric solenoid type is more what I meant as automatic, like you describe. But the other concerns are the things that might keep me from doing it for street use.
     
  19. NM850

    NM850 True Classic

    Location:
    Albuquerque NM
    I’ve run 5 seasons on my race car with those mounts on my radiator fan with zero problems. Admittedly the fan only runs in the pits or waiting on the grid. So curious as to why?
     
  20. Dr.Jeff

    Dr.Jeff True Classic

    Location:
    Sin City
    I suppose it is mostly personal preference, but to me the idea of putting a object through the soft aluminum fins is asking for failure eventually. Especially when they support a fair amount of weight that's pulling against the core. Furthermore if the fan housing is resting directly against the core as a result of this type mounting, there may not be enough of a air gap to allow optimal flow across the rad. Look up the recommended specs for how far a fan should be away from the rad; it's actually different for a cooling radiator vs a AC condenser, etc.

    I've read of many failures resulting from these through-core fan mounts, with leaks caused by them rubbing through. However I'm sure there are many more that have survived them, so it may depend on the particular circumstances.
     
    NM850 likes this.

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