Paging Matt @Midwest-Bayless RE: F.I. Fuel Line

Discussion in 'Workshop Forum' started by Dan Sarandrea (Phila), Jan 7, 2020.

  1. Dan Sarandrea (Phila)

    Dan Sarandrea (Phila) Waitin' On Parts...

    Location:
    Philadelphia, PA
    myronx19 likes this.
  2. For many years we offered true 7.5mm high pressure fuel hose as was used OEM for the L-Jet system. Unfortunately the choice of mfgs for this was very small; - two suppliers remain globally. CRP (Continental Rubber) or Meyle. Those are just the brand names who market and have their names stamped on the stuff, who knows what company actually makes the hose behind the scenes.

    Because we use a lot of this in-house, we did notice that both brands would begin showing outside surface cracking like the photo in a couple years of use. We couldn't determine if this was due to solvents on the outside (i.e. brake parts cleaner) or some other factor. (i.e high ethanol content in USA fuels)

    We never suffered an outright failure, but we saw this enough times that it became a concern and decided to discontinue last year.

    We switched to a major brand name supplier who expressly warrants their high pressure hose as compatible with ethanol and other solvents. But it's 7.9mm (5/16) SAE sized. We'd certainly like to supply the proper 7.5mm stuff for L-Jet, but all things considered, longevity is a more important issue, and the 7.9 works just fine with FI style clamps.

    If any client is concerned about the current condition of hose they have received from us in the past, please let us know.

    -M
    [​IMG]
     
  3. Rod Midkiff

    Rod Midkiff True Classic

    Location:
    Eugene, OR
    I did have a problem with a set. and I was very pleased with the prompt reply that replacement that I got from Matt.

    I now have three fi x1/9's with there hoses on them.

    The first set did fail, I should have changed them out when Matt sent the replacement's
     
    myronx19 likes this.
  4. Dr.Jeff

    Dr.Jeff True Classic

    Location:
    Sin City
    CRP / Continental was one of the best hoses on the market for decades. I especially like their cloth braided stuff. But it certainly isn't as affordable as the more available SAE sized hoses. However I agree that in recent years some of their products seem to have changed, as have that of many manufacturers. Fuel hoses in general are certainly not what they used to be.

    The whole ethanol subject is an interesting one. I'm noticing some hoses that are stated to be good for ethanol use are not holding up as well as expected. And I'm also seeing some specialty hoses that are marketed specifically for ethanol at very high prices. Many vehicle manufacturers have been using firm 'plastic' tubing rather than soft hoses. I think time will be needed to determine what really works well and at what price point. But I might go back to something I've done on several project vehicles in the past; form S/S hardlines with just short flexible couplers at the ends.
     
  5. So, I have already had an experience with some new hoses failing, presumably because of the ethanol content of new fuel. That was in my carburettor car however. The new fuel lines that I put in my FI car are holding up very well. I got them from an "old school" car accessories place, just before it closed down :(

    Snap 2020-01-11 at 15.23.06.png

    The manufacturer is "Cohline" which is a German company supping manufacturers like Porsche. Might be worth checking out!

    Cheers,
    Dom.
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2020
    Mike Schofield likes this.
  6. Dr.Jeff

    Dr.Jeff True Classic

    Location:
    Sin City
    I agree Dom, Cohline has great products. They have been the leading supplier to many of the German automotive manufacturers for ages.

    Much like most major companies today, Cohline now has production factories throughout the world (Germany, UK, USA, Czech Republic, Romania). This was my point about the ContiTech (CRP) products; depending on where the specific item is actually made, the quality may vary a lot. And CRP has plants in many more countries than Cohline.

    Large corporations make different levels of their products to meet the requirements of different markets. Some parts of the world need lower cost supplies, so the manufacturers make lower level lines to match. Unfortunately those products find their way into other markets. The greed for profit has led suppliers, distributors, warehouses, jobbers, retailers, to get the lowest price source they can find and sell it at the higher market price levels. In many cases the products have the same name, model, part number, and other identification on it regardless where it is manufactured. Even if you find the source of the item printed on the box, that does not necessarily mean that's where it was actually made - many countries have laws that allow products to be labeled as "made in where ever" despite coming from elsewhere. So you really cannot tell what you have, the better quality product from one country or the lower quality from another. And sadly the price you paid tells you nothing, just too many unethical sellers out there. Even car dealerships and other "OEM" sources are doing this, so the source you purchase from does not really mean much either. In the defense of retailers, they are very unlikely to know exactly where the parts they sell were actually made.

    And if all of this wasn't enough, there is a HUGE problem with counterfeit parts flooding the markets. Reports exist of major parts manufacturers finding counterfeit merchandise in their own inventory. And in some cases they were hard pressed to tell the difference by appearance.

    Dom, in your case being in Germany, it is most likely you got the German made Cohline hose...especially since it came from a old parts house. And it will be great stuff. However others may not get the same hose you did unfortunately - despite what's printed on it. This is what has happened to the CRP/Continental hoses; there is no way to know what we are getting, and they are not all created equal.
     
  7. Hi Jeff,

    indeed, this is an increasing problem with companies trading on their name whilst lowering their production costs to increase profit. German manufactured products are typically high quality, but unfortunately there are many low cost products being sold in Germany with a name that "sounds like" it is made in Germany whereas in actual fact it is poorly made overseas.

    One company I still have a good deal of trust in (despite manufacturing overseas) is SKF, which has a problem with counterfeit parts. They even have an app that you can use to send them photos of suspected forgeries. I used it to report what I though were counterfeit upper strut mounts and received an e-mail the next day by a guy with a PhD reassuring me that they were OK. Also, the last SKF wheel bearings that I bought were made in Italy, so all good there.

    So probably a bit of a mixed bag rather than a universal trend when it comes to lowering the quality of parts. The problem is by the time customers wake up to the fact that the parts are no longer the same standard as before, the damage to the company's reputation is irreversible. But by this time the CEO who increased the profit (albeit briefly) has already collected his bonus...

    Cheers,
    Dom.
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2020
    PaulD, Dr.Jeff and kmead like this.
  8. Dr.Jeff

    Dr.Jeff True Classic

    Location:
    Sin City
    So true. I really amazes me that large corporations have succumbed to chasing bigger profits at the cost of lowered product quality, and therefore decreased reputation. You would think they know how this will hurt them in the long run. But I guess the short term gain is all they see.

    And perhaps they won't get hurt as much as I think. One example that I was a privi to was with one of the worlds largest insurance underwriters many years ago (in my first career before medicine). For several years the company continually reduced their overhead by laying off employees, freezing salaries / withholding bonuses-incentives, closing offices, and greatly decreasing payouts to their policyholders (e.g. denied legitimate claims). All justified (by corporate) due to "decreased profits creating a negative financial situation". Being a part of upper management I had access to the corporate financial reports, and with a MBA background was able to make sense of them, so I looked closer into this. Turns out the company was not only profiting throughout this period, but they were making record profits. The "decreased profits" they were referring to was actually their way of saying the projected future financial increases were not as high as forecasted. With bonuses tied to meeting the forcast goals, this would have meant no bonuses for the top execs. So they cut back on their workforce and clients to meet those projected forecasts and retain their bonuses. Naturally the whole thing hurt them for awhile, between disgruntled employees and dissatisfied policyholders, but eventually things went back to normal. And most importantly the execs did not take any decreases in income throughout it.
     
  9. Dr.Jeff

    Dr.Jeff True Classic

    Location:
    Sin City
    SKF was the company that came forward and said they discovered counterfeit components in the own inventories. They have worked to resolve it and have been a big proponent in the fight against counterfeiting. However as you said they do have production plants throughout the world like most other large part makers. And that includes producing various levels of quality to meet differing market needs. So it is possible to find lower quality SKF bearings offered at some retailers. Unfortunately the problem often reaches far beyond the manufacturer. For what it's worth I've always liked SKF also.
     

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