<TABLE cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD colSpan=2><TABLE width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-TOP: 4px" vAlign=top colSpan=2>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->PBS S2 Cam<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]June 18 1999 at 2:52 PM[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript> <!-- var n54_em; n54_em = ""; n54_em = n54_em + "s";n54_em = n54_em + "s";n54_em = n54_em + "h";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + "n";n54_em = n54_em + "k";n54_em = n54_em + "@";n54_em = n54_em + "b";n54_em = n54_em + "q";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + ".";n54_em = n54_em + "c";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + "m"; document.write("Steven Shonk"); // --> </SCRIPT>Steven Shonk <NOSCRIPT> Steven Shonk </NOSCRIPT> [/FONT]</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=bottom colSpan=3><HR></TD></TR><TR><TD colSpan=3>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->I have an '85 X1/9 and live in the SF Bay Area. I bought a PBS big-valve head that came with a PBS S2 cam. From everyone I've talked to, nobody has yet been successful getting the S2 cam to work with the stock FI system. I called PBS and they've not spent much time on this combination. Someone heard that you want to use injectors from a Spyder 2000. In fact, the intake manifold that also came with the head had injectors from a 3L Buick V6 (500cc/injector; same as the Spyder 2000). Got everything installed last weekend, but couldn't get it to idle below about 3500 RPM. We ran out of time, and will go at it again tomorrow morning. Anyone have any good info on getting the S2 cam to work with stock, or mostly-stock, FI?<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Author[/FONT]</TD><TD>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Reply[/FONT]</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Ulix[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->FI and S2<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]June 18 1999, 4:45 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Steven,
I think you will find a host of different opinions on hot cams in FI X1/9s. Some say FI cars can't be hopped up at all, some say you have to use bigger injectors, variable rate fuel pressure regulators, etc.
But I think it should run below 3500rpm no matter what, th issue is more whether or not you will be able to get the correct air/fuel mixture at higher rpm.
Is it or isn't it true that above 4000rpm the mixture is only determined by rpm? There was a discussion about this on the mirafiori forum. You could check the archive.
I know Mark Plaia runs the SX-1 in his fairly stock FI car with great results. I used to run a Faza 35/75 or 40/80 (can't remember) in my '83 FI car. Worked well.
Ulix
Yellow 74 with PBS big valve 1100 head and SX-1 cam
<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
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[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript> <!-- var n54_em; n54_em = ""; n54_em = n54_em + "s";n54_em = n54_em + "s";n54_em = n54_em + "h";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + "n";n54_em = n54_em + "k";n54_em = n54_em + "@";n54_em = n54_em + "b";n54_em = n54_em + "q";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + ".";n54_em = n54_em + "c";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + "m"; document.write("Steven Shonk"); // --> </SCRIPT>Steven Shonk <NOSCRIPT> Steven Shonk </NOSCRIPT>[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 30px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->FI and S2 Cam<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]June 18 1999, 5:38 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 30px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Thanks for the answer. I've been looking through the forum archives with limited success. Since I have the S2 cam, I'm trying to make it work. It may just be too much cam. Thanks again.<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Mark Plaia[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 45px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->S2 cam in FI X1/9<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]June 20 1999, 11:02 AM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 45px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Steven,
As Ulix noted, I have run an SX-1 cam successfully in my 80 X1/9 for years. What I understand to be the situation with hotter cams than the SX-1 is that there is too much overlap between intake and exhaust cycles (good for high rpm breathing). At low rpm, i.e. idle, there is not enough vacuum to please the FI system, so it shuts off. I have no first hand knowledge of this, so I may be wrong.
The SX-1 has a duration, timing and consequent overlap that is similar to stock cam. The lift is slightly higher and the valve acceleration to open is very fast. At that, my FI motor has always been "lumpy" at idle and is happiest at approximately 950 rpm, versus spec at 850 rpm. Good luck and share your experience with us.
MP<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
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[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript> <!-- var n54_em; n54_em = ""; n54_em = n54_em + "s";n54_em = n54_em + "s";n54_em = n54_em + "h";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + "n";n54_em = n54_em + "k";n54_em = n54_em + "@";n54_em = n54_em + "b";n54_em = n54_em + "q";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + ".";n54_em = n54_em + "c";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + "m"; document.write("Steven Shonk"); // --> </SCRIPT>Steven Shonk <NOSCRIPT> Steven Shonk </NOSCRIPT>[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 60px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Update on S2/FI Combo<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]June 21 1999, 9:14 AM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 60px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->With only about 20 minutes of further fiddling, we got the X to a point that I consider it drivable. We got our best results with the static timing at 20 degrees advanced. We tried 15 degrees advanced and it didn't like it. It's currently idling at 1,400 RPM. When I get a chance, I'll try a lower idle, but I don't think I'll be able to get below 1,000 RPM. The engine bucks and snorts a lot until it warms-up, and I understand there are some things I can try with the warm-up circuit. After it warms-up, it stumbles a little to 3,500 RPM, runs good from 3,500 to 5,000 RPM, where it pulls hard to redline. The car is very fun above 3,500 RPM. I commute 45 miles to SF a few days a week, so I'm going to see how annoying the low-speed stumbling will be while commuting in traffic. This morning wasn't bad. After we got the car running on Saturday morning, my gf and I took it from Gilroy, over Hecker Pass to Watsonville, up Hwy. 1 through Santa Cruz, west on Pescadero Road, west on Hwy 84 back to Fremont. The car ran well the whole way. I've put about 300 miles on it since Saturday morning. At some point, I'll be interested in trying-out an SX-1 cam as a comparison. It's bound to be more drivable. But, at this point, I'm not unhappy with the S2 cam. More later. Regards.<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Ulix Goettsch[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 75px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->SX-1 vs. S2<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]June 21 1999, 8:34 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 75px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Steven,
I would also be very interested in a comparison between the two cams. I was originally going for the S2, but was steering more towards the SX-1 by Mark PLaia and others on the Mirafiori forum.
I may try the S2 at one point, after all it's only $75 to get another cam reground.
But if you do try it, by all means let us know.
Also if you get it running better, I would be interested in hearing about that.
Ulix
Yellow 74<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
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[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript> <!-- var n54_em; n54_em = ""; n54_em = n54_em + "s";n54_em = n54_em + "s";n54_em = n54_em + "h";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + "n";n54_em = n54_em + "k";n54_em = n54_em + "@";n54_em = n54_em + "b";n54_em = n54_em + "q";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + ".";n54_em = n54_em + "c";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + "m"; document.write("Steven Shonk"); // --> </SCRIPT>Steven Shonk <NOSCRIPT> Steven Shonk </NOSCRIPT>[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 90px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->S2/FI Combo<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]June 22 1999, 8:48 AM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 90px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->I think it's still prudent to recommend the stock or SX-1 cam for use with the stock fuel injection. I need more seat time with the S2 cam. Plus, I need to do a back-to-back comparison with one or more other cams. Who knows when I'll have time for that. Some dyno time with an adjustable cam sprocket would also be very helpful. However, I'm pleasantly surprised at how well things are going so far. Regards.<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Ulix[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 105px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->PBS head<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]June 22 1999, 10:07 AM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 105px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Ah, that brings up a good point. Did you redrill the cam sprocket as described in the PBS instructions?
I drove for a day without doing this after I installed the PBS head, and it ran like crap, expecially at lower rpm.
Ulix
Yellow 74<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
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[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript> <!-- var n54_em; n54_em = ""; n54_em = n54_em + "s";n54_em = n54_em + "s";n54_em = n54_em + "h";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + "n";n54_em = n54_em + "k";n54_em = n54_em + "@";n54_em = n54_em + "b";n54_em = n54_em + "q";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + ".";n54_em = n54_em + "c";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + "m"; document.write("Steven Shonk"); // --> </SCRIPT>Steven Shonk <NOSCRIPT> Steven Shonk </NOSCRIPT>[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 120px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->PBS Head Setup Sheet<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]June 22 1999, 12:08 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 120px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Ulix, I got the head from someone who got it from PBS. I didn't receive a set-up sheet with the cam. If you still have yours, please FAX a copy to me at 415-834-2399. Thanks, steven<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Ulix[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 135px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Will do.<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]June 23 1999, 11:05 AM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 135px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->If you haven't done this, no wonder your engine isn't running right.
So I guess you didn't enlarge the valve cutouts in the pistons either, hahaha. I thought that it would probably work w/o doing this and I kind of wish I hadn't because it lowers CR.
Ulix<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
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[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript> <!-- var n54_em; n54_em = ""; n54_em = n54_em + "n";n54_em = n54_em + "i";n54_em = n54_em + "c";n54_em = n54_em + "k";n54_em = n54_em + "i";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "r";n54_em = n54_em + "@";n54_em = n54_em + "i";n54_em = n54_em + "n";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + "m";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + ".";n54_em = n54_em + "c";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + "m"; document.write("Nikola Radenkovic"); // --> </SCRIPT>Nikola Radenkovic <NOSCRIPT> Nikola Radenkovic </NOSCRIPT>[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 150px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Valve cutouts<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]March 6 2000, 12:56 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 150px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->PBS instructions for enlarging the valve cutouts needed!
Thanx in advance (no vacuum retard here
))<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript> <!-- var n54_em; n54_em = ""; n54_em = n54_em + "s";n54_em = n54_em + "s";n54_em = n54_em + "h";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + "n";n54_em = n54_em + "k";n54_em = n54_em + "@";n54_em = n54_em + "b";n54_em = n54_em + "q";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + ".";n54_em = n54_em + "c";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + "m"; document.write("Steven Shonk"); // --> </SCRIPT>Steven Shonk <NOSCRIPT> Steven Shonk </NOSCRIPT>[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 120px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->PBS Head Set-up<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]June 24 1999, 9:11 AM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 120px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Ulix, PBS faxed their set-up sheet to me yesterday. I've been looking for an adjustable cam sprocket. PBS no longer offers one. If I can't find one, I'll drill another hole in the sprocket. Thanks for the heads-up! Regards.<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
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[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript> <!-- var n54_em; n54_em = ""; n54_em = n54_em + "j";n54_em = n54_em + "i";n54_em = n54_em + "m";n54_em = n54_em + "b";n54_em = n54_em + "r";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + "1";n54_em = n54_em + "0";n54_em = n54_em + "0";n54_em = n54_em + "0";n54_em = n54_em + "@";n54_em = n54_em + "l";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + "i";n54_em = n54_em + "r";n54_em = n54_em + ".";n54_em = n54_em + "f";n54_em = n54_em + "r";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "s";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "r";n54_em = n54_em + "v";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + ".";n54_em = n54_em + "c";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + ".";n54_em = n54_em + "u";n54_em = n54_em + "k"; document.write("Julian"); // --> </SCRIPT>Julian <NOSCRIPT> Julian </NOSCRIPT>[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 105px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Making FI work<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]June 23 1999, 6:41 AM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 105px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Having read this post through fairly carefully, it seems to me that half the problem stems from a very limited timing map in the ECU. I imagine, however, that mapping the ECU for Federal emissions restrictions is a bit of a tough nut (provided of course that you do keep to the restrictions....). A replacement mappable ECU and throttle bodies in the UK would be a straight swap for the stock carb, I don't know how difficult this would be. Ultimately though the adjustable mapping should allow you to get far more out of the big valve head AND keep it fully tractable at low revs.
To get the most out of it at high revs you need to bring the timing back a little, while at low revs it needs adjusting to cover the overlap on the valve timing.
The stock injectors are more than man enough for the job but probably need to have their pulse duration altered to cope with the screwy timing that results. Better still if you take the replacement ECU route there is nothing to stop you fitting secondary injectors that will really make the engine pull.
Fitting a vernier pulley will help enourmously in getting the timing right without having to rethread the timing belt repeatedly.
Unfortunately all of this begins to make the car rather heavily modified in the engine department and I'm pretty sure you're trying to avoid that, one our best tricks in the UK is to hunt down a Weber Alpha system from one of the Lancias that were around about 10-15 years ago, the system is fully mappable and can be pretty much plugged straight in. Keep with the vernier pulley though, it will make the job much easier in the end.
Julian<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
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[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Mac[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 120px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Weber Alpha / Bosch L-jet mods<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]June 23 1999, 10:11 AM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 120px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->
Julian Wrote:
'one our best tricks in the UK is to hunt down a Weber Alpha system from one of the Lancias that were around about 10-15 years ago, the system is fully mappable and can be pretty much plugged straight in.'
Julian, please tell us more about this Weber Alpha mod. I am personally unfamiliar with this approach. Which Lancia cars used that system?
I personally believe the X's stock L-jet system most likely can be made to do the job, it really is an excellent system - all one has to do is to make it behave to accept the mods (yeah, easier said than done...)
I have a link here to an interesting website about modifying the L-jetronic system, very in-depth info, check it out at http://users.exis.net/~audserv/Injection.html. Maybe there are some answers there for some of our cam questions... ? -Mac.
<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
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[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript> <!-- var n54_em; n54_em = ""; n54_em = n54_em + "j";n54_em = n54_em + "i";n54_em = n54_em + "m";n54_em = n54_em + "b";n54_em = n54_em + "r";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + "1";n54_em = n54_em + "0";n54_em = n54_em + "0";n54_em = n54_em + "0";n54_em = n54_em + "@";n54_em = n54_em + "l";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + "i";n54_em = n54_em + "r";n54_em = n54_em + ".";n54_em = n54_em + "f";n54_em = n54_em + "r";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "s";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "r";n54_em = n54_em + "v";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + ".";n54_em = n54_em + "c";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + ".";n54_em = n54_em + "u";n54_em = n54_em + "k"; document.write("Julian"); // --> </SCRIPT>Julian <NOSCRIPT> Julian </NOSCRIPT>[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 135px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Lancia donor<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]June 23 1999, 2:02 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 135px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->From memory the model was the Lancia Thema - you need to find the top of the range models, but if you can find one it is the cheapest way to obtain a Weber Alpha system...<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Mac[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 150px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Maybe not so cheap for us<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]June 23 1999, 9:04 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 150px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Unless I'm mistaken, they never sold that Lancia in North America... which does complicate the idea of finding one around here! -Mac.<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
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[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript> <!-- var n54_em; n54_em = ""; n54_em = n54_em + "j";n54_em = n54_em + "i";n54_em = n54_em + "m";n54_em = n54_em + "b";n54_em = n54_em + "r";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + "1";n54_em = n54_em + "0";n54_em = n54_em + "0";n54_em = n54_em + "0";n54_em = n54_em + "@";n54_em = n54_em + "l";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + "i";n54_em = n54_em + "r";n54_em = n54_em + ".";n54_em = n54_em + "f";n54_em = n54_em + "r";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "s";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "r";n54_em = n54_em + "v";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + ".";n54_em = n54_em + "c";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + ".";n54_em = n54_em + "u";n54_em = n54_em + "k"; document.write("Julian"); // --> </SCRIPT>Julian <NOSCRIPT> Julian </NOSCRIPT>[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 165px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Availability<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]June 24 1999, 2:57 AM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 165px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->I can absolutely, 100$ definitely guarantee that it would have been sold under a different name if it had been sold. From what I can gather, there were several models, generally of the top of the range model type, that came with the Weber Alpha. I would suggest asking a Lancia dealer, but that is obviously quite pointless. I will see if Ollie knows the answer to this one and get back to you.<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
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[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript> <!-- var n54_em; n54_em = ""; n54_em = n54_em + "j";n54_em = n54_em + "i";n54_em = n54_em + "m";n54_em = n54_em + "b";n54_em = n54_em + "r";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + "1";n54_em = n54_em + "0";n54_em = n54_em + "0";n54_em = n54_em + "0";n54_em = n54_em + "@";n54_em = n54_em + "l";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + "i";n54_em = n54_em + "r";n54_em = n54_em + ".";n54_em = n54_em + "f";n54_em = n54_em + "r";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "s";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "r";n54_em = n54_em + "v";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + ".";n54_em = n54_em + "c";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + ".";n54_em = n54_em + "u";n54_em = n54_em + "k"; document.write("Julian"); // --> </SCRIPT>Julian <NOSCRIPT> Julian </NOSCRIPT>[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 180px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Follow-up - the real thing<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]July 6 1999, 9:20 AM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 180px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->I did a little investigation work over here on alternatives to the Weber Alpha system. It turns out that Eurosport (one of the big three X-parts traders in the UK) are now selling the Lumenition management kit. It supplies the ECU, throttle bodies, injectors and fuel rail. The ECU is fully mappable and can be reprogrammed with the car running on the road, the throttle bodies fit as replacements to twin CNF's/COE's with a throttle diameter of 40-45mm. All you need to supply is the plumbing and a high pressure fuel pump (and filter). The down side is that the kit costs roughly £1800 which is equivalent to about $2700 (The price is likely to come down since this is a very new product at the moment). It can run the standard ignition system (with the weights locked off) or the Lumenition Optronic igintion. The Weber Alpha system is more expensive and requires all of the setup to be done on a rolling road. In addition the setup has to be done by a qualified Weber Alpha technician (officially - unofficially any one can do it!) Obtaining an Alpha system from a breakers yard (even if you have to get it from Europe) becomes very cheap in comparison!<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
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[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]June 18 1999 at 2:52 PM[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript> <!-- var n54_em; n54_em = ""; n54_em = n54_em + "s";n54_em = n54_em + "s";n54_em = n54_em + "h";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + "n";n54_em = n54_em + "k";n54_em = n54_em + "@";n54_em = n54_em + "b";n54_em = n54_em + "q";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + ".";n54_em = n54_em + "c";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + "m"; document.write("Steven Shonk"); // --> </SCRIPT>Steven Shonk <NOSCRIPT> Steven Shonk </NOSCRIPT> [/FONT]</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=bottom colSpan=3><HR></TD></TR><TR><TD colSpan=3>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->I have an '85 X1/9 and live in the SF Bay Area. I bought a PBS big-valve head that came with a PBS S2 cam. From everyone I've talked to, nobody has yet been successful getting the S2 cam to work with the stock FI system. I called PBS and they've not spent much time on this combination. Someone heard that you want to use injectors from a Spyder 2000. In fact, the intake manifold that also came with the head had injectors from a 3L Buick V6 (500cc/injector; same as the Spyder 2000). Got everything installed last weekend, but couldn't get it to idle below about 3500 RPM. We ran out of time, and will go at it again tomorrow morning. Anyone have any good info on getting the S2 cam to work with stock, or mostly-stock, FI?<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
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[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->FI and S2<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]June 18 1999, 4:45 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Steven,
I think you will find a host of different opinions on hot cams in FI X1/9s. Some say FI cars can't be hopped up at all, some say you have to use bigger injectors, variable rate fuel pressure regulators, etc.
But I think it should run below 3500rpm no matter what, th issue is more whether or not you will be able to get the correct air/fuel mixture at higher rpm.
Is it or isn't it true that above 4000rpm the mixture is only determined by rpm? There was a discussion about this on the mirafiori forum. You could check the archive.
I know Mark Plaia runs the SX-1 in his fairly stock FI car with great results. I used to run a Faza 35/75 or 40/80 (can't remember) in my '83 FI car. Worked well.
Ulix
Yellow 74 with PBS big valve 1100 head and SX-1 cam
<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
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[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 30px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->FI and S2 Cam<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]June 18 1999, 5:38 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 30px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Thanks for the answer. I've been looking through the forum archives with limited success. Since I have the S2 cam, I'm trying to make it work. It may just be too much cam. Thanks again.<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
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[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 45px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->S2 cam in FI X1/9<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]June 20 1999, 11:02 AM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 45px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Steven,
As Ulix noted, I have run an SX-1 cam successfully in my 80 X1/9 for years. What I understand to be the situation with hotter cams than the SX-1 is that there is too much overlap between intake and exhaust cycles (good for high rpm breathing). At low rpm, i.e. idle, there is not enough vacuum to please the FI system, so it shuts off. I have no first hand knowledge of this, so I may be wrong.
The SX-1 has a duration, timing and consequent overlap that is similar to stock cam. The lift is slightly higher and the valve acceleration to open is very fast. At that, my FI motor has always been "lumpy" at idle and is happiest at approximately 950 rpm, versus spec at 850 rpm. Good luck and share your experience with us.
MP<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
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[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 60px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Update on S2/FI Combo<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]June 21 1999, 9:14 AM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 60px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->With only about 20 minutes of further fiddling, we got the X to a point that I consider it drivable. We got our best results with the static timing at 20 degrees advanced. We tried 15 degrees advanced and it didn't like it. It's currently idling at 1,400 RPM. When I get a chance, I'll try a lower idle, but I don't think I'll be able to get below 1,000 RPM. The engine bucks and snorts a lot until it warms-up, and I understand there are some things I can try with the warm-up circuit. After it warms-up, it stumbles a little to 3,500 RPM, runs good from 3,500 to 5,000 RPM, where it pulls hard to redline. The car is very fun above 3,500 RPM. I commute 45 miles to SF a few days a week, so I'm going to see how annoying the low-speed stumbling will be while commuting in traffic. This morning wasn't bad. After we got the car running on Saturday morning, my gf and I took it from Gilroy, over Hecker Pass to Watsonville, up Hwy. 1 through Santa Cruz, west on Pescadero Road, west on Hwy 84 back to Fremont. The car ran well the whole way. I've put about 300 miles on it since Saturday morning. At some point, I'll be interested in trying-out an SX-1 cam as a comparison. It's bound to be more drivable. But, at this point, I'm not unhappy with the S2 cam. More later. Regards.<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 75px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->SX-1 vs. S2<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]June 21 1999, 8:34 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 75px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Steven,
I would also be very interested in a comparison between the two cams. I was originally going for the S2, but was steering more towards the SX-1 by Mark PLaia and others on the Mirafiori forum.
I may try the S2 at one point, after all it's only $75 to get another cam reground.
But if you do try it, by all means let us know.
Also if you get it running better, I would be interested in hearing about that.
Ulix
Yellow 74<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 90px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->S2/FI Combo<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]June 22 1999, 8:48 AM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 90px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->I think it's still prudent to recommend the stock or SX-1 cam for use with the stock fuel injection. I need more seat time with the S2 cam. Plus, I need to do a back-to-back comparison with one or more other cams. Who knows when I'll have time for that. Some dyno time with an adjustable cam sprocket would also be very helpful. However, I'm pleasantly surprised at how well things are going so far. Regards.<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 105px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->PBS head<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]June 22 1999, 10:07 AM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 105px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Ah, that brings up a good point. Did you redrill the cam sprocket as described in the PBS instructions?
I drove for a day without doing this after I installed the PBS head, and it ran like crap, expecially at lower rpm.
Ulix
Yellow 74<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 120px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->PBS Head Setup Sheet<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]June 22 1999, 12:08 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 120px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Ulix, I got the head from someone who got it from PBS. I didn't receive a set-up sheet with the cam. If you still have yours, please FAX a copy to me at 415-834-2399. Thanks, steven<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 135px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Will do.<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]June 23 1999, 11:05 AM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 135px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->If you haven't done this, no wonder your engine isn't running right.
So I guess you didn't enlarge the valve cutouts in the pistons either, hahaha. I thought that it would probably work w/o doing this and I kind of wish I hadn't because it lowers CR.
Ulix<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 150px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Valve cutouts<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]March 6 2000, 12:56 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 150px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->PBS instructions for enlarging the valve cutouts needed!
Thanx in advance (no vacuum retard here
))<!-- google_ad_section_end -->[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 120px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->PBS Head Set-up<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]June 24 1999, 9:11 AM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 120px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Ulix, PBS faxed their set-up sheet to me yesterday. I've been looking for an adjustable cam sprocket. PBS no longer offers one. If I can't find one, I'll drill another hole in the sprocket. Thanks for the heads-up! Regards.<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 105px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Making FI work<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]June 23 1999, 6:41 AM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 105px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Having read this post through fairly carefully, it seems to me that half the problem stems from a very limited timing map in the ECU. I imagine, however, that mapping the ECU for Federal emissions restrictions is a bit of a tough nut (provided of course that you do keep to the restrictions....). A replacement mappable ECU and throttle bodies in the UK would be a straight swap for the stock carb, I don't know how difficult this would be. Ultimately though the adjustable mapping should allow you to get far more out of the big valve head AND keep it fully tractable at low revs.
To get the most out of it at high revs you need to bring the timing back a little, while at low revs it needs adjusting to cover the overlap on the valve timing.
The stock injectors are more than man enough for the job but probably need to have their pulse duration altered to cope with the screwy timing that results. Better still if you take the replacement ECU route there is nothing to stop you fitting secondary injectors that will really make the engine pull.
Fitting a vernier pulley will help enourmously in getting the timing right without having to rethread the timing belt repeatedly.
Unfortunately all of this begins to make the car rather heavily modified in the engine department and I'm pretty sure you're trying to avoid that, one our best tricks in the UK is to hunt down a Weber Alpha system from one of the Lancias that were around about 10-15 years ago, the system is fully mappable and can be pretty much plugged straight in. Keep with the vernier pulley though, it will make the job much easier in the end.
Julian<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 120px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Weber Alpha / Bosch L-jet mods<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]June 23 1999, 10:11 AM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 120px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->
Julian Wrote:
'one our best tricks in the UK is to hunt down a Weber Alpha system from one of the Lancias that were around about 10-15 years ago, the system is fully mappable and can be pretty much plugged straight in.'
Julian, please tell us more about this Weber Alpha mod. I am personally unfamiliar with this approach. Which Lancia cars used that system?
I personally believe the X's stock L-jet system most likely can be made to do the job, it really is an excellent system - all one has to do is to make it behave to accept the mods (yeah, easier said than done...)
I have a link here to an interesting website about modifying the L-jetronic system, very in-depth info, check it out at http://users.exis.net/~audserv/Injection.html. Maybe there are some answers there for some of our cam questions... ? -Mac.
<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 135px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Lancia donor<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]June 23 1999, 2:02 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 135px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->From memory the model was the Lancia Thema - you need to find the top of the range models, but if you can find one it is the cheapest way to obtain a Weber Alpha system...<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 150px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Maybe not so cheap for us<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]June 23 1999, 9:04 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 150px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Unless I'm mistaken, they never sold that Lancia in North America... which does complicate the idea of finding one around here!
-Mac.<!-- google_ad_section_end -->[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 165px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Availability<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]June 24 1999, 2:57 AM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 165px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->I can absolutely, 100$ definitely guarantee that it would have been sold under a different name if it had been sold. From what I can gather, there were several models, generally of the top of the range model type, that came with the Weber Alpha. I would suggest asking a Lancia dealer, but that is obviously quite pointless. I will see if Ollie knows the answer to this one and get back to you.<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 180px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Follow-up - the real thing<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]July 6 1999, 9:20 AM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 180px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->I did a little investigation work over here on alternatives to the Weber Alpha system. It turns out that Eurosport (one of the big three X-parts traders in the UK) are now selling the Lumenition management kit. It supplies the ECU, throttle bodies, injectors and fuel rail. The ECU is fully mappable and can be reprogrammed with the car running on the road, the throttle bodies fit as replacements to twin CNF's/COE's with a throttle diameter of 40-45mm. All you need to supply is the plumbing and a high pressure fuel pump (and filter). The down side is that the kit costs roughly £1800 which is equivalent to about $2700 (The price is likely to come down since this is a very new product at the moment). It can run the standard ignition system (with the weights locked off) or the Lumenition Optronic igintion. The Weber Alpha system is more expensive and requires all of the setup to be done on a rolling road. In addition the setup has to be done by a qualified Weber Alpha technician (officially - unofficially any one can do it!) Obtaining an Alpha system from a breakers yard (even if you have to get it from Europe) becomes very cheap in comparison!<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
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