Preparing For Dallara Body Kit

lookforjoe

True Classic
Hussein!

I guess I forgot to pay my dues as I have been out of this loop for awhile. BEAUTIFUL WORK... love all the detailing you did as well.

BTW... those windshield wipers... just what are they used for anyway? I took mine off and stored them in the truck to rot...

Good to hear from you, Tony. I was being to get worried - haven't seen your upbeat and helpful posts so much of late :)
 

lookforjoe

True Classic
Installed the 16mm bulb door seal on the DS. Fits very well on the A pillar, sill & B pillar up to the door glass. For the glass area, it doesn't protrude enough to seal the glass at all. Part of the issue it seems to me is that the used door I installed (no rust) had been 'tweaked'. The rear edge does not align properly with the 1/4 line - it sticks out somewhat above the lock when the lower portion is aligned. As a result, the entire back edge of the glass sits further out than it should. I played around with the overall alignment, and what I have is the best compromise in terms of overall fit.

Blurry pic, but you can see where the top of the door protrudes from the 1/4 panel line. Door cannot be adjusted any further inward.

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The sealing problem is only with the driver's door, the pass aligns & seals well with the Volvo seal.

The solution in my case is to use the Volvo seal for the glass/B pillar above the door latch, and the 16mm bulb seal for the rest of it. The 16mm bulb is inserted about an inch inside the Volvo seal, and glued.

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To make sure the bulb presses against the glass, I added a thin wall 12mm tube inside the bulb of the Volvo seal, just to the point where the glass enters the door. With that, paper inserted between the glass & seal cannot be withdrawn when the door is closed. Wind noise is minimized. I'm happy

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Black-Tooth

Tony Natoli
Yeah Hussein... you have a lot going on there to seal that door and window.

Just getting these doors to close and latch is a miracle in itself! HA!

With me, I hardly ever ride with the roof on so a seal and wind noise is not a concern. But just sayin', I ran this universal bulb seal in ONE continuous loop from the top of one A pillar to the top of the other. I don't remember the dimensions but they can be estimated and found on Ebay. I believe I got a 21 foot long pice, but again, measuring for oneself is best. At one time J.C. Whitney carried this for about $25 bucks as a "Universal Trunk Seal"... but I can't find anything at JCW anymore.

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I also removed the sill plate as I didn't feel it was needed. I didn't even use corner moldings for an uncluttered appearance, but Ricardo still sells re-pops for those who feel they offer a better seal when the top is installed.

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lookforjoe

True Classic
Yeah Hussein... you have a lot going on there to seal that door and window.

Just getting these doors to close and latch is a miracle in itself! HA!

With me, I hardly ever ride with the roof on so a seal and wind noise is not a concern. But just sayin', I ran this universal bulb seal in ONE continuous loop from the top of one A pillar to the top of the other. I don't remember the dimensions but they can be estimated and found on Ebay. I believe I got a 21 foot long pice, but again, measuring for oneself is best. At one time J.C. Whitney carried this for about $25 bucks as a "Universal Trunk Seal"... but I can't find anything at JCW anymore.

View attachment 16276


I also removed the sill plate as I didn't feel it was needed. I didn't even use corner moldings for an uncluttered appearance, but Ricardo still sells re-pops for those who feel they offer a better seal when the top is installed.

View attachment 16277

View attachment 16279

The wind noise with top on is an issue for me. With the top off it’s not an issue, I usually have the windows down.
It’s too cold now at 6 am when I’m driving to work to leave it off unfortunately.
The seal you have appears to be the 20mm bulb seal variety - looks good on yours. That was the first style replacement I used years ago (from MWB) - however in my case I kept the factory corners and cut it at the targa junction to fit them. The problem I had with that style was that the door was hard to close, and leaked at the A pillar on both sides. In any event, the setup I have now seems good- I’ll find out for sure in the next heavy rain.
 

Black-Tooth

Tony Natoli
Hey Hussein...

I have not seen anything like the 15305 series MICRO relay and fuse block. Are the relays hefty enough to handle the rather antiquated current draws?

Tylers and the Cooper Bussman 15400 and 15300 appear to me to be something I can relate to. The 15305 does not include the relays either... I doubt if the weight is a factor, so cost and ease of installation and maintenance would be what I would be concerned with... and I wouldn't rewire the car unless I was gonna diassemble almost the entire thing and start from scratch.

But hey, anything to keep YOU off the street, huh!

HA!

I took Black Tooth out for a "walk" today and it was a beautiful spring evening... and country roads coming home with some great twisties. I don't think I will ever fall out of love for this car!

Be well!


Tony
 

lookforjoe

True Classic
Good to hear from you Tony!

I'm leaning toward the 15400 series box. I'm not really keen on this extensive a re-wire, replacing the 'heart' of the car's system as it were. I've already had to remove & repair the circuit board on the '87, and expect that at some point it will be problematic to maintain. I figured when I have the entire dash out (some point in the future) to make the custom dash, it would be a practical time to do this.

In other news, I forgot to update on the targa/ sealing issues I had previously. I'm (cautiously) happy to report that the (now canvas) top no longer leaks at any of the points it did previously, it's also so much easier to R&R the top. The only things I'm trying to resolve are the bulb seal on the targa where the glass top edge meets, and a coating for the rubber locater blocks in the nose. The (Volvo) seal I'm using allows for a very slight gap, which creates a wind noise when driving with the top on, even if no water comes in. Looking for a seal with larger OD bulb (possible example), hopefully offset slightly higher relative to the seam, as the installed seal is angled slightly upward relative to the horizontal plane. I don't want to adjust the door glass height any further as this then creates issues closing the door with the top on. The rubber blocks in the nose stained the canvas on the PS side - I was able to mostly clean it off, and have tissue tucked into them to keep the rubber from staining for now.

IMG-8174.jpg
 
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kmead

Glutton for punishment
The Bussmann system seems like overkill for the locations the block could be on an X. There are no in the weather locations in an X that would require the weatherpack block and its associated sealing aside front the engine bay and I suspect that will be filled sufficiently on your car.

Have you considered solutions where you might be able to use the existing terminations (with repairs as needed) to use the preferred number of relays and fuses without having to rebuild all the terminations? Meaning a spade connector based system with modern relays and fuses and no intermediate circuit board.

Something like this would be much easier and less complex than the level of rewiring shown in some of the thread references. Especially given the lengths of the existing wires, where you would have to do so much of the work where everything terminates in the passenger footwell and you don’t look like a good pretzel or gymnast.

I could see breaking it up into front, cabin and rear sub systems though cabin and front are so close that it seems a bit odd to break those up. The frunk would be a nice place to put arrangement right next to the battery since you don’t have a large water container there anymore.

My new X had water in the fuse box area due to a hole effectively right above it in the scuttle so I worry about it’s long term lifespan as well. It all works now but as we know that may be an ephemeral state :)
 

lookforjoe

True Classic
The Bussmann system seems like overkill for the locations the block could be on an X. There are no in the weather locations in an X that would require the weatherpack block and its associated sealing aside front the engine bay and I suspect that will be filled sufficiently on your car.

Have you considered solutions where you might be able to use the existing terminations (with repairs as needed) to use the preferred number of relays and fuses without having to rebuild all the terminations? Meaning a spade connector based system with modern relays and fuses and no intermediate circuit board.

Something like this would be much easier and less complex than the level of rewiring shown in some of the thread references. Especially given the lengths of the existing wires, where you would have to do so much of the work where everything terminates in the passenger footwell and you don’t look like a good pretzel or gymnast.

I could see breaking it up into front, cabin and rear sub systems though cabin and front are so close that it seems a bit odd to break those up. The frunk would be a nice place to put arrangement right next to the battery since you don’t have a large water container there anymore.

My new X had water in the fuse box area due to a hole effectively right above it in the scuttle so I worry about it’s long term lifespan as well. It all works now but as we know that may be an ephemeral state :)

The plan was to use the Bussman (or similar) mounted in or close to the factory location. The module needs to be bussed, which is the problem with most all the cheaper boxes - they don't provide that at all, and adding them basically doubles the cost of them and complicates internal wiring. I would (probably) just eliminate the terminal seal grommets. I honestly would prefer to re-terminate all the factory wires as problems tend to arise in the connectors rather than anywhere else in the run of any given wire. The plan is to update the wiring & eliminate some of Fiat's funky wiring runs (compared to Volvo layout :D).
 

Black-Tooth

Tony Natoli
Good to hear from you Tony!

I'm leaning toward the 15400 series box. I'm not really keen on this extensive a re-wire, replacing the 'heart' of the car's system as it were. I've already had to remove & repair the circuit board on the '87, and expect that at some point it will be problematic to maintain. I figured when I have the entire dash out (some point in the future) to make the custom dash, it would be a practical time to do this.

In other news, I forgot to update on the targa/ sealing issues I had previously. I'm (cautiously) happy to report that the (now canvas) top no longer leaks at any of the points it did previously, it's also so much easier to R&R the top. The only things I'm trying to resolve are the bulb seal on the targa where the glass top edge meets, and a coating for the rubber locater blocks in the nose. The (Volvo) seal I'm using allows for a very slight gap, which creates a wind noise when driving with the top on, even if no water comes in. Looking for a seal with larger OD bulb (possible example), hopefully offset slightly higher relative to the seam, as the installed seal is angled slightly upward relative to the horizontal plane. I don't want to adjust the door glass height any further as this then creates issues closing the door with the top on. The rubber blocks in the nose stained the canvas on the PS side - I was able to mostly clean it off, and have tissue tucked into them to keep the rubber from staining for now.

IMG-8174.jpg

Great yakkin' with you as well...

I tend to agree with you but think that an entirely new wiring harness is in order for the very reasons you stated. But I also agree with Karl that the frunk would be the place to install the new panel and distribution point. In that manner, you can stand up and work on the system without trying to reach under the dash.

If you still wanna keep it in the cockpit, you may wanna consider removing the glovebox and mounting it behind the glovebox door and hinging the door DOWN so you can at least sit up in the seat and work on it.

Continue having fun!
 

lookforjoe

True Classic
Managed to drop a short ladder that was hanging on the garage wall onto the hood. Thankfully, the cover was on it, so the paint was not marred, but it did dent it :( It's rgiht where the reinforcement panel sits, so no way to get behind it. Hard to photograph, obvious in person. Really frustrated with myself. I don't expect my work to be perfect, but this is really annoying. This is the 3rd mar I have added to the painted body. I dropped a socket on the right fender & chipped a notch in the paint, and scratched about an inch in the left targa sail the first time I took the targa off last fall. Might as well shoot myself now :D

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DanielForest

True Classic
I'm so sorry for you. You must feel really bad. My car is in the garage, not running, for 19 years. My wife and my son both dropped their bikes on the driver door and I opened the passenger door on a protuding shelve. I also moved the trunk covermto the basement so it will not be laying somewhere in the garage... then the basement was flooded and the perfect trunk was ruined by some acid products, I guess. And I won't tell all the small scratches and chipping that happened over the year, even with a car cover.

But basically, 19 years of use would have probably been worse... But it your case, the car is barely running! :oops:
 

darwoodious

Darin Nelson
You, Hussein, are experiencing the too small garage for the level of projects you are capable of doing problem! If you had a "normal" garage, you'd never dent your car cuz your ladder would be somewhere else (and you'd never use it!).

I think it is due to you working to much and too fast. Slow down - you make us all look lazy as it is, so this is your penance.

More seriously, sorry to hear about it. Sucks in a huge way.
 

Black-Tooth

Tony Natoli
Hussein... I understand and feel your pain...

Do you think you could carefully cut open the reinforcement panel (or drill) and then attempt to massage the dent out from underneath?

Have you attempted to contact one of those "paintless dent removal" guys for their expert opinion?

I've seen them do some amazing stuff...
 

Clark

True Classic
I think we've all been there. Just this past month I welded too close to my brand new truck. I was careful not to get any splatter on the paint but somehow got some on the window :( Now every time I go past the back window all I can see is the pits. Darin is right.... too small of a garage. It's a factor of the circumstance not you.
 

Black-Tooth

Tony Natoli
Hussein...

Maybe these Darin and Clark are right... in that SIZE matters.

Not all that I have is excessive but you are welcome to bring/ship that P.O.S. of yours and work on it here anytime...

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Its only 2750 square feet but I can send the other guys home to make room for ya!

Hey... don't forget to try those "paintless dent" guys first... I've seen them work miracles.
 

Mike Schofield

True Classic
Managed to drop a short ladder that was hanging on the garage wall onto the hood. Thankfully, the cover was on it, so the paint was not marred, but it did dent it :( It's rgiht where the reinforcement panel sits, so no way to get behind it. Hard to photograph, obvious in person. Really frustrated with myself. I don't expect my work to be perfect, but this is really annoying. This is the 3rd mar I have added to the painted body. I dropped a socket on the right fender & chipped a notch in the paint, and scratched about an inch in the left targa sail the first time I took the targa off last fall. Might as well shoot myself now :D

IMG-8478.jpg


IMG-8468.jpg


IMG-8467.jpg
I hear you! I was lowering my garage door and it caught my plastic Santa clause in his sleigh which then fell directly on my hood leaving two small dents. :mad: I was able to pry them and minimize the impact. I plan on using a “glue pull” method to get the rest out.
I feel your pain!
 
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