Preparing For Honda K24a3/AST5 6spd Conversion

Discussion in 'Workshop Forum' started by lookforjoe, Aug 31, 2018.

  1. lookforjoe

    lookforjoe True Classic

    Now that the frivolities are dispensed with, it's back to the real work :D

    Finally putting the engine back together, then I can do the rear main, flywheel, clutch & bolt up the transaxle. Once that is done, I can start figuring out how to make the forward trans mount situation viable.

    Put in the later intake cam (torque gear bolt to 83ft/lb), timing chain kit, front cover (torque crank pulley to 181ft/lb), adj. valves (.008" INT, 010" EXH), install valve cover with new seals ,

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Intake runner torqued to head.
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2019
    Tom Ginefra, kmead and Rodger like this.
  2. lookforjoe

    lookforjoe True Classic

    Today I got a little done. Rear main seal installed, pilot bearing installed, Exedy flywheel installed & torqued to 83ft/lb, Exedy clutch disc & PP installed (torqued in stages to 23ft/lb)

    [​IMG]

    threadlocker applied to original bolts

    [​IMG]

    numbered them as I went around

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    then I got the transaxle mated. Almost gave up on this part, as I couldn't find the two 80mm long M12x1.25 bolts for the lower rear mount bracket and the starter motor. Spent what felt like an hour looking for them. I had given up, resigned myself to having to order two bolts & was packing up when I realized they were in the engine stand that I was dragging back to the basement for storage - I had had to use them to bolt the motor to the stand :mad:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Then I started on the l/front mount bracket placement, working on the assumption that the engine and subframe are level relative to one another in the transverse plane

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    setup thus, this is where the l/front bracket sits, which puts the mount points slightly inboard of where they seem to be on the earlier 6 speed. I can't make them move further left without distortion of the mount.

    [​IMG]

    I am missing these two bosses on my version 6 speed:

    [​IMG]

    So I will have to weld bosses to the bell housing to accomodate the bracket. approx 1/2" gap at the lower mount point/ Hopefully I can do that without distortion to the bell housing.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2019
    dllubin likes this.
  3. darwoodious

    darwoodious Darin Nelson

    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    can you not just modify the bracket? seems easier. 1) it's steel and WAY easier to weld than cast aluminum. 2) if you frack it all up you can fix it or, at worst, order another from MWB.

    maybe I'm missing something. just a thought.

    your motor looks great. you and Rodger making us other K20 swappers looking bad.
     
    lookforjoe likes this.
  4. lookforjoe

    lookforjoe True Classic

    Thanks Darin - I had precluded that idea since all the forward-facing bosses are nowhere near the mount. Looking at my pic though, I can just cut off the barrel head, rotate it 90º, and get a longer bolt for the bell housing. Should be able to add a plate at 90º to the lower point as well, and use that bell housing bolt also. Sometimes you just need another set of eyes on the subject :D. I'd MUCH rather mess with the bracket than weld the bell housing, which with my luck would warp, or the current would cook the synchro's or something else internally (thinking of what happened to my wife's 500 main rod bearings)...
     
    kmead likes this.
  5. autox19

    autox19 True Classic

    Location:
    East Lansing, Mi
    just an FYI, I really love your build threads. just in case you were wondering if anyone was really watching. I am sure I am not the only silent observer. :)

    Odie
     
  6. lookforjoe

    lookforjoe True Classic

    Thank you. I do enjoy documenting the process. It helps me keep track :D

    Today I made good progress (after spending a couple hours putting new tires on my C30) - I resolved the mount issue.

    Using the thick AC compressor mount plate from the X1/9 parts car, and a Volvo 240 series balljoint :D

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Post-MIG welding & grinding. My TIG really isn't meant for this gauge steel. The problem with the MIG is that it's a cheap one with no sheilding gas, so it makes a royal mess. I also really can't see what I'm doing so I have to basically just go in what I assume is the correct general direction. Works overall, but the welds are supper ugly

    [​IMG]

    Even has a Volvo part number :D
    [​IMG]

    I'm hoping the offset clears the frame - based on Darin's pic - I think it's OK

    [​IMG]

    I may want to add a web from the upright to the horizontal, just to be safe

    [​IMG]

    Sits nicely. Have to order a 10x1.25 x 60mm and 12x1.25 x 70mm to replace the factory bolts, they are a tad short now

    [​IMG]

    Also got the plenum crotches welded where I couldn't get in to it

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    started putting the hoses, etc., back on the motor. I'll continue with that tomorrow.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2019
  7. kmead

    kmead Over half way.

    Location:
    Michigan
    Of course you did and of course it does.

    Nicely resolved.
     
    lookforjoe likes this.
  8. darwoodious

    darwoodious Darin Nelson

    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    That plenum looks rad, like if H.R. Giger made a plenum, it'd look like that. Love it.
     
  9. lookforjoe

    lookforjoe True Classic

    Thanks Darin. I'm happy with the overall look, even if it is kinda funky :D

    Went up to the repair shop today to look for 10 & 12x1.25 hardware. Didn't find much that would help the current situation. Also went through the remnants of my Fiat hardware. The local dealership had the 10x1.25x60 bolt I needed. I used a Fiat bolt for the 12x1.25x70 - only thing that bothers me is that it has a 19mm head & no flange :(

    Stocked up on my Volvo tensioner/support bracket stockpile while I was there.
    [​IMG]

    After futzing with all that for awhile, I started adding stuff - the new injectors, coilpacks, and then the engine harness on to see how that will all lay. I'm thinking I will follow Rodger & put the ECU in the trunk. I can't tuck it where he did as I have water ingress into that well on occasion that I haven't determined the source of. Definitely don't want water wicking through the harness.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Battery & power cables will run through stock location (hopefully)
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    The black pipe (return from expansion tank) I had reworked for a cleaner fit & finish - which turned into a problem..
    [​IMG]

    Put the plenum back on
    [​IMG]

    ...and the TB. Hoses all sit nicely - but - the TPS doesn't fit now because of the reworked return pipe :( Have to figure that one out. EDIT - think I'll remove the molded connector & solder short harness to the pins. It's the connector housing that's in the way.

    [​IMG]

    DBW connector (sititing alongside vent hose) has to be opened up & separated for the TPS & IAC
    [​IMG]

    Under the intake

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    So, overall I'm happy with the way it's laying out. I didn't have the harness in place when I was making stuff, so it's fortunate I left sufficient clearances . Have to revisit Rodger's pics to see if my hoses are headed in the right direction. I also can't remember what the hose size is for the hard lines. One of the silicone hoses is 1.25 - 1.375, the other is 1.25 at each end...

    EDIT - hoses need to be 1.375" at hard pipe end. The Volvo t/stat neck is closer to 1.125" than 1.25" (loose fit) . Can't find a listing for 1.125 - 1.375 reducer hose. I also don't like the angle I've got the housing offset at, as it's pushing the return hose to the left at the hard pipe end. I may get a short 45 to push the hose back to align with the feed hose, which looks correct in terms of placement when comparing with Rodger's pics. Have to cogitate on that some.
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2019
    Waterbury and kmead like this.
  10. lookforjoe

    lookforjoe True Classic

    Took care of the TPS connection yesterday. Cut the connector housing off, found three Volvo wires that fit the pins & soldered those on, then coated in JBweld.

    [​IMG]

    Wired the IACV also while I was at it

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    My plan was to use the wires previously used for the DBW throttle -

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    ... the problem I have found after much research is that they go in two directions - to this engine bay (right side firewall) 6pole connector (APP Sensor)


    [​IMG]

    and to this connector on the cabin side of the harness (C251), that connects to a sub harness for the DBW module

    [​IMG]

    So, they don't actually connect to the ECU, which is in my case changed to the Accord drive-by-cable version. I'll need to figure out what the 4 wires ppl use for the TSX DBC conversion in the connector I already removed, and move them at the C251 end to power/ground/signal locations for the TPS and/or IACV as appropriate.

    The other ECU harness connector that goes to the dash, etc is C201 & is same 13pole connector. I haven't yet found a schematic for it. It is shown in the connector location section of the electrical harness manual, but can't locate a diagram.

    [​IMG]

    Only three ECU connecotrs are utilized - A, B & E. C is for A/T (auto trans)

    [​IMG]

    Put the TB back on to check the harness fit, and pulled the MAP wiring out of the main loom to reroute alongside the TPS/IACV harness. I'm going to have to add an accessible 3pole connector to cover the potential removal of the TPS - if I don't it's a guarantee that I will have problems there.

    [​IMG]

    Also setup the EVAP purge valve vacuum feed, was able to cut down the stock hose & fit it to the vac port I added to the plenum neck. I may or may not keep that formed tree, I dunno yet. IAT is shown dangling by the TB inlet. I forgot about that. I made an adaptor out of the sleeve from the factory inlet hose, and bonded into the Volvo inlet hose I will be using, I'll add pics of that.

    [​IMG]

    I stripped the starter sub harness from the fues box to figure out what I'll do at that end. I'm thinking I'll add a fusible link junction for the battery cable in the spare well rather than run new line(s) to the battery to replace the Honda alt & starter cables integrated as it already stands. Since I have the hydraulic battery lug crimp tool, that's not a big deal, IMO.

    I've been spending many hours on various Automotive electrical supply sites, trying the determine the actual types (AMP/Yakazi/ Sumitomo, etc) of the connectors & terminals so I can get replacement terminals for the rewiring. Not having much luck there either. Closest I can find for the ECU connectors is the Delphi Series 090 - 15317578, which appears to be the correct form factor. Have to research the terminals

    Screen Shot 2019-07-13 at 11.04.19 PM.png Screen Shot 2019-07-13 at 11.04.39 PM.png Screen Shot 2019-07-13 at 11.04.44 PM.png image.png
     
  11. I was looking at your connector drawing and noticed it is from Packard Electric in Warren, OH. Back in the late 70s, we were working on a joint development program with GM and I found myself in Warren quite a few times. It was one of the largest buildings in the world - something like over a square mile. There were literally roads and traffic lights inside the building. They did everything from drawing copper wire to creating cable and connector assemblies. They had a big injection molding facility for making connectors. Maybe you can call and ask for some samples.
     
  12. lookforjoe

    lookforjoe True Classic

    Re read the TSX DBW delete mod - the feeds for the IACV & TPS connect to the APP sensor connector, not the TB connector (same form), so that will work out. The Throttle Body connector & wires from there to the C251 connector can be removed/repurposed.

    IAT added to inlet tube

    [​IMG]

    checking clutch hydraulic line orientation/fit

    [​IMG]

    adding the additional wiring for OP gauge & light, Coolant, Bay fan, AC

    [​IMG]

    tucks under oil filter to avoid cooking from the header (edit - spaced on the fact that I didn't need to add a wire for the idiot light, there is already a factory one right there in front of me :D ) EDIT - wire I added for OP idiot light will be used for Oil Temp sender

    [​IMG]

    going to route it along factory wiring under cover

    [​IMG]

    Bay fan sender will go down in here, on intake

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2019
  13. darwoodious

    darwoodious Darin Nelson

    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    is this an ABS flex pipe for a drainage ditch?

    upload_2019-7-15_22-55-8.png

    EDIT: sorry Hussein. I see it is thicker and thus rubber. Probably some Volvo part...
     
    lookforjoe and autox19 like this.
  14. lookforjoe

    lookforjoe True Classic

    :D

    Yeah, it's the air intake coupler from a Volvo 700 series with the B280 (V6) motor.
     
  15. lookforjoe

    lookforjoe True Classic

    Worked a little on the wiring again today.

    Stripped the TB-to-C251 harness out, routed the MAP & coolant temp wiring behind the TB flange. Figured having it close to the inlet neck / clamp would be potentially problematic.

    [​IMG]

    TPS & IACV harness routed over the top for future access

    [​IMG]

    Still trying to figure out the appropriate replacement terminals for a couple housings - both these types

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    use these terminals, neither housings nor terminals have markings. .060" / 1.5mm male pin

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    and the ECU terminals -

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2019
  16. lookforjoe

    lookforjoe True Classic

    Looks like I've finally narrowed down the terminals I need :)

    Thanks to input from Joe @ cycleterminal.com , it was determined that the grey housings are actually Yazaki Kaizen series. The terminals are all 1.5mm, so 1.5x080 series.

    7114-4101-02 pin/male
    7116-4871-02 skt/female

    The Yazaki's are not so easy to source. I have an email in to the one company I dealt with for the AWD Haldex terminals, see what they say.

    In the meantime I also found Molex makes an identical terminal in their MX150 series:

    33000-1002 pin/male
    33012-3002 skt/female

    The ECU terminal is AMP - I found a marking on the backside of the crimp. Given that these are smaller than the above, with the overall measurements I had, I went searching through the 040 series, and there they were, 040 III multilock series.

    316836-1 skt/female

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2019
  17. lookforjoe

    lookforjoe True Classic

    Still working on the wiring after work. Have at least another day on this, I'm slow. Still figuring out the C201 terminal connections.

    [​IMG]

    Had to go back & add more wires from the ECU end back (or rather forward) to the bulkhead end. Have 17 at this point, added a few extras in case I forgot something else. Wrapped with alex-tech sheathing.

    [​IMG]

    making sure everything is isolated, supported & properly routed

    [​IMG]

    clearance for shift counterweight

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2019
    kmead likes this.
  18. lookforjoe

    lookforjoe True Classic

    More work on the wiring, and the return rad hose

    support bracket for engine harness -

    [​IMG]

    Rad hose

    [​IMG]
     
    kmead likes this.
  19. lookforjoe

    lookforjoe True Classic

    Odds & ends. It's so hot, I can't think straight .

    Got the wiring at the bulkhead end of the engine harness finished for now

    [​IMG]

    welded the harness support bracket

    [​IMG]

    And finished the bridge harness from APP sensor connector to TPS/IACV harness.

    [​IMG]

    Problems. I don't like the angle of the cables

    [​IMG]

    So, I'll have to cut the support mounts & lower it about 1/4-1/2" to get rid of that angle where the inner cable exits the sleeve.

    In repositioning the expansion tank return pipe, I dropped the elbow too far. It needs to sit above vertical, but still below the heater hose. I'll have to remove the pipe, remove the braised elbow and reposition then braize it back.

    [​IMG]

    Leaving for Dublin Wednesday, so I think I'll have to leave all this till I get back in a week or so.
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2019
    dllubin and kmead like this.
  20. kmead

    kmead Over half way.

    Location:
    Michigan
    Safe travels and have a great time.

    All the best.

    Karl
     
    lookforjoe likes this.

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice