Preparing For Honda K24a3/AST5 6spd Conversion

Discussion in 'Workshop Forum' started by lookforjoe, Aug 31, 2018.

  1. lookforjoe

    lookforjoe True Classic

    Got the shifter cable support bracket reworked today. Cable alignment seems to be acceptable now.

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    Also put together an adaptor T to accept a Fuel Gauge or the 3bar sender, if I keep the fuel pressure gauge in the dash.

    8mm quick release fuel fitting x2 M10x1 male to 1/8NPT female M10x1 Elbow union

    I ended up using a standard 1/8NPT elbow union & retapping it to M10x1 - the one I bought had tapered seats that didn't work with the line fittings. 1/8" NPT is really close to M10x1, it turns out. It felt like all I was doing was removing the taper, and 'adjusting' the initial threads rather than really recutting them.

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    EDIT: Fuel Gauge line finished for now. I'll deal with routing to body side once it's in the car

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    Last edited: Aug 6, 2019
    kmead likes this.
  2. lookforjoe

    lookforjoe True Classic

    I'm in the process of pulling the Fiat drivetrain. What I haven't developed in any concrete way is a plan of action for raising & lowering the car and/or Honda drivetrain for the trial & final fitment (!) If you read this, Darin or Rodger, any specific tips would be appreciated.

    When you guys test fit the motor with the subframe to check for initial clearance & chassis cuts, did you strip the motor of all ancillaries or keep it complete?

    The catch for me is that I have no rear hanging points for the hoist. The only practical thing I can thing of offhand, is to fabrciate a lift bracket (angle iron, probably) with L & R eyelets that sits in the trunk, tied/bolted to the two frame rails by way of the bumper shock mount points? Either that or across the strut towers, but that would be more work to create & would be in the way, I think. EDIT: The engine hoist my son left me when he moved to San Jose has a balance bar assembly - perhaps I can simply attach the chains to the bumper shock mount bolt, I'll have to look at that.

    Looking at Rodger's post HERE , I see (assume) that the body was essentially lowered onto the drivetrain :

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    In terms of height to allow it to pass under, cinderblocks under jack stands in the rear, standard ramps in the front

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    Last edited: Aug 6, 2019
  3. kmead

    kmead Old enough to know better

    Location:
    Michigan
    I like the idea of the balance bar attachment to the furthest forward pair of bumper bolts in the trunk. It keeps the lift elements far from the bodywork and you are lifting a bit more forward than the far rear.

    I would make the engine the mobile element at a set height, leveled the way you would want (with some minor adjustability) and then set the front of the X at the height you need it to be to get the engine and body level when the body is dropped down.

    It may take a couple of trials to get it right.

    Did you ever make use of the engine bay hulk to discern the initial placement and cuts or did I miss you dumping that approach?
     
  4. darwoodious

    darwoodious Darin Nelson

    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    It is pretty much just as it looks in the photos. When we did Rodgers we had the 3 of us so we lowered the chassis right onto the subframe and aligning it by moving the engine, jostling etc. When I do it at my small garage, I have an advantage of an overhead beam in the perfect place to lift the tail up in the air with a chain pulley connected to the rotisserie cross bar.

    Remove your passenger side A-arm - that'll free up a lot of space to both remove the FIAT drivetrain and put in the K20 thru the passenger wheel well. You might as well remove the right-side A-arm or at least have it unbolted and bolts slid out to accept the subframe. Have the engine bolted to the subframe of course.

    Make sure you've slotted your rear tunnel cover that houses the handbrake redirection wheels - mine didn't fit with the subframe and neither did Rodger's (he used some bad-ass dental tool to grind it then/there).

    I've put the K20 in and out of my car some 3 times now but haven't hooked anything up to the drivetrain (hoses, drivelines etc) so that's probably all the hints I have. I'm sure Rodger and others have more to add.

    Good luck and take your time!
     
  5. lookforjoe

    lookforjoe True Classic

    Thanks for the input, Karl. I made the Hoist tool today, pics below.

    I still have the go-cart X1/9. I'm kinda feeling I should just cut mine & be done with it, rather than spending what may turn into a week or more futzing with the shell. My plan is just to cut on the cautious side following the various examples, & then see how it looks.

    Thanks Darius. I was going to drop the entire suspension, just to get everything out the way. The way the car is situated in my driveway, I have to go in from the rear or the passenger side, so that's good that you suggest that path.

    I couldn't find any reference to 'slotting the tunnel cover' in the MWB literature - I did see Rodger's mention of it, but I don't know what you mean by that. Do you have a pic you can share? I also have to holesaw the vertical rear post as you did for the shifter cable pass-through, I want that as neat as possible also.

    Got the top of the engine disconnected today, and then jacked it up with ramps in the front, so I can drain the fluids & drop the drivetrain tomorrow, assuming the weather doesn't go as bad as predicted. I put my canopy back up in the driveway, but it's really more of a sunshade than a foul weather cover.

    This morning I spent a couple hours figuring out the hoist brackets. I went through all my misc piles of stuff to find something appropriate. I settled on sections cut from a collapsible bed frame I picked on one bulk-pickup weekend in the neighborhood, I figured the angle iron would come in handy at some point.

    Put two sections back-to back to make a U-channel (was cut in half after this pic). It already had a pair of keyed slots that match the OD of the bumper shock bolt (14mm?) Then I cut two short sections, that will prevent the hoist from pulling the bracket rearward when lifted.

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    Stitched some welds to unite the U channels. Welded the cross brace, then painted an ugly orange to make it easy for me to find them when I put them somewhere safe for storage.

    [​IMG]

    Ready for test fitting

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    Left

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    Right

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    Balance beam will go approximately thus.. with trunk lid removed of course. I think I'm all good here.

    [​IMG]
     
  6. darwoodious

    darwoodious Darin Nelson

    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    Looks good! Good color for a brute force tool as well.

    The tunel cover interferes where the subframe attaches with the rectangular riser. This is the area w/out the cover on:
    WP_20160531_22_56_06_Pro.jpg

    I just trimmed the turned out edges like so:
    IMG_0229.JPG
    Here's the view as if your looking "up" at it from below if you were under the car with your feet up by the front wheels:
    IMG_0228.JPG

    There are no issues with it once all put together. The subframe should keep all the crap out of the cable spools. Probably smart to caulk it up once installed tho:
    IMG_0528.JPG
     
  7. lookforjoe

    lookforjoe True Classic

    Perfect! Thanks Darius, that makes it perfectly clear :)

    Once last thing, the hole you cut here

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    aligns with the large hole in the eBrake cover where the shift arm comes through, correct?
     
  8. darwoodious

    darwoodious Darin Nelson

    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    Correct. I want to utilize the hole where the stock shift arm extrudes and run the shift cables there. It looks perfect to route the shift cables between the engine and bell housing. It's been a while since I verified that tho.

    To the passenger side (right) I want to run the hot leg of the heater hose. Still to be sorted out completely since I want the 5/8" SS tube to poke out of the tunnel cover but want to be able to remove/service the tunnel cover. Probably will fill in the access hole for adjusting the handbrake and remake a hole but extend a relief towards the passenger side. The idea for the hot side heater (for me anyways) is to keep the rear-side exit of the heater connection and wrap it under the engine (in the same bell-housing/engine gap) and right up thru the tunnel to the heater.
     
  9. lookforjoe

    lookforjoe True Classic

    OK - I won't make any cuts there until after I've trial-fitted the subframe.

    Dang. Another thing I hadn't thought through. In my case, the heater feed (on the engine side) was going drop down under the TB. I hadn't thought through how I was going to deal with rerouting the in-cabin pipe / hose away from the PS where it is now to make it meet up :D I assume from other pics there is no space in the area of the slave cylinder for a pipe to fit.

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  10. kmead

    kmead Old enough to know better

    Location:
    Michigan
    Something you might consider is changing to an electric parking brake.

    38mm electric parking brake calipers are used on several VW and FCA vehicles. This could get rid of a mechanical system for you.

    Just a thought.
     
  11. darwoodious

    darwoodious Darin Nelson

    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    I truly hope you're joking! How does one do a brake skid with electric parking brake! Besides, it's just a tiny bit of trimming to be done.

    It should fit. You will need to route it out of the tunnel somehow anyways. Stock that hot side runs from the passenger side around the timing belt and into the firewall where the spare tire is. You can re-route it up along with the heavy gauge starter wire and up.
     
  12. kmead

    kmead Old enough to know better

    Location:
    Michigan
    Sorry not joking. I don't use the ebrake for anything other than parking or a potential emergency.

    I can get it sideways using other means :)

    I suggested it as a means to get rid of another thing in the tunnel, cables routed around the engine and the possibility of having a modern caliper.

    Just a thought as I said.
     
  13. lookforjoe

    lookforjoe True Classic

    I already replaced the rear calipers with the larger bore variety. I don't want to add further complexity to the system :D

    Still working on the drivetrain removal, several distractions such as clearing garage space, looking at a car for a friend, heavy rain etc.

    Suspension & hubs, axles removed.
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    Also got side tracked filling a critter hole dug into the garage at the left corner post visible in this pic
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    Exhaust removed. Gonna be fun getting all this dynamat back off :(

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    Engine bay as it sits. Hopefully drop the drivetrain in the AM, weather permitting

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  14. lookforjoe

    lookforjoe True Classic

    Broke down & ordered a TIG Everlast Water Cooler & CK18 25'SF torch & hose kit last night, gonna need it for all the welding coming up.

    Drivetrain came out this morning.

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    Then I started on this mess

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    AC & Fuel out

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    Wiring out. Still have to deal with factory harness to rear & gauge sensors/alt trigger

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    Running out of space already

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    Had to stop & pack up quickly - as long as it does this in the evening instead of the morning, I can get things done :D

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    sub-zeroil and kmead like this.
  15. darwoodious

    darwoodious Darin Nelson

    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    350 amps! Are you welding an aluminum trailer? - I'm with you... even for "hobby/light" welding, I'd love to have a water cooled torch. But I can usually wait a bit and let the torch cool. Keep posting!
     
  16. lookforjoe

    lookforjoe True Classic

    I know, it feels just a tad over-indulgent :D - I didn't need 350A rating, as my EastwoodTIG is rated 200A @ around 60% duty cycle, the specific torch decision was based on getting one that still used the same consumables as my WP-17, and the CK SuperFlex line is supposed to be lightweight & durable . I have found that welding 3/16 - 1/4" steel has been difficult as the WP17 gets really hot really fast at higher amp settings. In the past I've just used the MIG instead, but that is really messy & won't work for me for delicate construction. Gonna be interesting welding many of those awkward underside seams laying on my back, so keeping the torch cool(er) seemed an imperative to make the best of a less than ideal situation. I'm hoping all this will mimize the grinding work needed to clean up the seams afterward.
     
    kmead likes this.
  17. lookforjoe

    lookforjoe True Classic

    Removed the (factory) engine bay wiring today. Cut the harness over the right frame rail where it feeds the rear, I'll add a multipole connector for that.

    Worked on removing the dynamat from the inner panel. After heating & pulling off the film, the butyl likes to stick to itself, so I used a ball of it to pull off the remainder. Still takes forever. Have to degrease the bay, and then start marking off the areas to cut.

    [​IMG]
     
    kmead and autox19 like this.

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