Project midnight sunrise

Kendall said:
Hello all, I've got basically everything striped down for the heating/cooling system. I'll be placing an order soon to start getting parts. I had a local shop pressure test and clean the radiator, so it looks great.

I had a quick question about the block and head markings. Here is the block:

For the head I only found a few numbers on the spark plug side.
I was told it was a 1300 head with opened up valves and a stroked 1500 block. Do these markings match a 1300 head and 1500 block?
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1300s generally will start with 128 and then 138.1. 1500s start with 138.2. Then there are the late engines.

The engine block casting number being in the M202 range could be one of several displacements: Later 8 valve motors - 1301/1498/1581 - M202 series accomodating a 14 bolt head.

You wouldn’t be able to use a early 1300cc head with this block. Depending on what the block really is you could have the basis for a large displacement engine or just a paltry 1300 :)

I haven’t found the exact code from your engine. Yet.

You will need to find the casting number for the head. You are just showing the firing order for the pistons :)

The head will have the casting number at the left end of the head on a boss with the number vertical (same side of the head as the spark plugs, it should start with 128, 138 or a later head code for a 14 bolt head.
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Based on the 4469772 number this would be a 1498cc out of a late Ritmo/Regata. Not sure if this was also the same number for the late X1/9s. I have never looked at the engine number on my ‘87. Perhaps I should...

If you take a pic of the head showing the skirt below the spark plugs there should be 4 bolts that go into the block which was added to the late engines.
 
M202.15 is the 14 bolt 1500 variant.

You'll find out more about what the engine / short motor was originally in / intended for by looking at the stamped in engine code, that is more specific about what the engine "contains" and / or what it came from.

You'll find that stamped into the end face of the block below the thermostat housing area, either ahead or behind, once again depends on year.

Head must have been shaved a lot, double washers on the head bolts

SteveC
 
Thanks for the information guys. Good catch on the head bolt washers, Steve. I didn't notice that.
Here is the marking on the head.
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And here are the numbers on the block.
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I think these markings mean it's an early head with a late block. If you guys have more details trust would be great.

I have all my parts to put the heating and cooling system back together. I hope to update about how it runs soon!
 
Late 1500 from an X with an early 1300 from a 128. It may be the original EU casting which may not be a great thing. Looking in the Ultimate SOHC thread might garner a more complete answer.
 
Thank you for the information. I'm very curious what I'll see if and when the head comes off. With this combination of head and block is it still an interference setup with the valves and pistons? Maybe it depends on the pistons used.

I'm looking to add a second radiator fan. I couldn't find a diagram with the relay locations. Does anyone have information of where each relay is located?
 
Kendall said:
Thank you for the information. I'm very curious what I'll see if and when the head comes off. With this combination of head and block is it still an interference setup with the valves and pistons? Maybe it depends on the pistons used.

I'm looking to add a second radiator fan. I couldn't find a diagram with the relay locations. Does anyone have information of where each relay is located?
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If the engine has indeed been stroked to 1600cc, then yes it would depend on which pistons were used to get there, but most options would defininitely make the engine interference with no timing belt.

A second fan isnt needed, if you have cooling issues then a second radiator fan isn't going to fix them.... pull the radiator and get it unblocked, that is, by a large margin, the number one cause of cooling issues in an X19.

SteveC
 
Thank you, Steve.

I know that two fans is likely a belt and braces approach, but for how much work it is over hauling the heating and cooling system I figure it can't hurt. I was very interested in your posts about transmission cooler systems. I look forward to seeing how that looks finished.

I also found the locations of the relays in the shop manual on page 170 for the early models.
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I just had a thought, right now I have all the heating and cooling stuff removed from the car. Also including the center console, heater box, and heater core. Is there anything else not heating and cooling related I should check on, particularly behind the center console, while I have it all apart now?
 
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Binnacle ighting source, perhaps changing to a higher output LED bulb for the fiber optic solution or move to individual LEDs to each switch that some have done.

Verifying your short hoses from the hard lines are in good shape.

Adding an electrical distribution bar to allow the addition of the brown wire mod or even better, consider adding a starter relay and two load reduction relays to the ignition switch to power running loads and accessory loads. The electrical distribution bar would go behind the right side panel where they used to butcher to put the single AM speaker in.

Adding two relays for the lighting for high and low beam or moving to the Bob Brown approach of removing four relays to headlight pods.

Adding two relays for the wiper system again powered off your dist bar above.

Look carefully at your gas pedal pull wire, it would be much easier to replace it now rather than later.
 
Thanks for the ideas. You've got me thinking about the electrical systems in the car. In my 124 I installed a hot and a switched fuse panel. It would be useful to do that now so I can use it for further electrical updates.

But this has also got me thinking. The relays in the car now are the old sheet metal box ones. Would it be a good idea to just change them out for modern bosch relays? I'm assuming the old style relays are hard to come by.
 
Kendall said:
Thanks for the ideas. You've got me thinking about the electrical systems in the car. In my 124 I installed a hot and a switched fuse panel. It would be useful to do that now so I can use it for further electrical updates.

But this has also got me thinking. The relays in the car now are the old sheet metal box ones. Would it be a good idea to just change them out for modern bosch relays? I'm assuming the old style relays are hard to come by.
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The OE relays are just fine, you won’t find any that are better quality. They have lasted this long, I can assure you they will last a good bit longer.

The old style relays are pin for pin the same as a similar sized modern ones. Most of the ones from no name brands are not high quality.

I wouldn’t change them.

I would use the best relays you can find for your new ones. I have been harvesting modern micro relays from modern production cars at the junk yard. OMRON makes excellent ones. They are smaller than the older style so they can be more easily packaged.

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A bit of a minor update, but I've gone through the trouble of repainting the radiator mount and a radiator fan cowl. They're not perfect but it was a good learning experience as I haven't tried that before. There is a lot of nuance to it.

I was happy to discover that when the re-did the interior they only capped off the holes for the seat belt shoulder mount. I got 3 point belts from a scrap car that I can easily bolt in. That's a win.

I think I've got all the parts I need to start putting everything back together. Hopefully this weekend I can make good progress.
 

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A few other quick photos. Here's the radiator assembly. Just need to bolt the rad to the mount. 20210513_195558.jpg
And here I've covered the ends of the coolant pipes with paper towels I've soaked with evaporust. There was some light rust on the surfaces where you attach the hoses that I thought it was best to take care of.

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Here's my oil priming tool I made.
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Hopefully this weekend will be a big step forward towards reassembly.
 
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This isn't the greatest photo but I finally got the radiator and fans in.
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Unfortunately I scratched up my new paint job on the radiator bracket getting it in. Also unfortunately I discovered lots of bad rewiring for the fan. Fortunately, I was able to wire the first fan to the original harness after fixing it. The second fan is wired to a fuse panel powered off the alternator and has a relay that switches with the original fan.

I think next step is tackling the heater core, and after that is getting the engine back together.
 
Not to nitpick on you, but make sure your grounding mounts are clean. The Yellow wire with the blue spade crimp. You would be surprised how many issues are all grounding related. Looking good though!
 
Indeed, they put the ground points in the headlight sponsons to protect them from corrosion as much as was reasonable.

A little extra, larger gauge wire never hurt to reach a mor protected spot no pummeled with water during every rain storm.
 
Thank you for the replies. I'm not worried about criticism, I hope you guys can point out the things that I miss.

I did check that ground. The white wire was a bit questionable but the ring terminal was still well attached. I didn't have another terminal in that size so I haven't changed it yet. There was a little surface rust on the stud but the underside was clean.
 
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Well I got some tires. Maybe it was a choice that goes against common wisdom, but I got 145HR13 pirellis. I love the way they look. They really fit the look of the car.

I'm finishing up getting the interior bank together. I noticed that the gas pedal has some free travel at the top of the throw. The cable feels relatively taught at the engine end. Is there something else that could be sloppy?
 
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