Que pasa con los Synchros

User1 · Feb 19, 2009

<TABLE cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD colSpan=2><TABLE width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-TOP: 4px" vAlign=top colSpan=2>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Que pasa con los Synchros

[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]December 26 2000 at 3:13 AM[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript>  </SCRIPT>Hugo Corona <NOSCRIPT></NOSCRIPT> [/FONT]</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=bottom colSpan=3><HR></TD></TR><TR><TD colSpan=3>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]I have finally found a manual at IAP for my 82 and will receive it shortly, so I will be able to tackle the more difficult problems. I am facing the task of replacing the synchros for first and second gears (N to 1st and 2nd to 3rd)and a friend that is an experienced mech tells me that I would be better off replacing the tranny with a rebuilt or new one. I would like to do that but I cannot afford the 1000 bucks required to do it (versus 80 for the synchros). Is it a difficult task? I am not an experienced mechanick but will do this in a garage on the Marine Corps base where I am stationed. Am I trying to get into something too deep for me? Would I be better of replacing the tranny? Options are, synchros or sell the car. What say you?

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[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Author[/FONT]</TD><TD>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Reply[/FONT]</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Warren[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Buy a used tranny <NT>

[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]December 26 2000, 11:10 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial].

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[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Steve Hoelscher[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 30px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Only if it has a warranty

[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]December 27 2000, 7:56 AM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 30px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Way too many used X transmission have some kind of problem. Too often you end up trading one problem for another.

Steve


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[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]lezesig[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]It can be done

[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]December 27 2000, 1:16 AM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Hugo,
My two bits if interested. If you decide to swap the components make sure you have the tooling that will be required. I assuming and hoping both Steves will chime in shortly with their take on the issue. A digital camera is a great asset to the undertaking. I just completed the job myself from scratch and recorded apprx. 150 images of each substep involved. You will know your transmission inside and out when you complete it. You'll probably be looking at more components to replace than just what you suspect initially. Inspect well. We have some great Vendors available that provide top notch service and quality parts. Beware...some of the sketches and Drawings in both the manual and expanded view parts list are incorrect. Orientation of gearface is incorrect on some of the views. The Drawings have been layed out to highlight certain features of the gear and do not necessariliy stack up that way. Another note....the bearings are EURO...meaning...not available from a standard bearing supplier. Try as they may our domestic bearing suppliers do not have these very specialized bearings. There are (6) total within the box counting the diff. Two other things then I'll bow out for the night. There is a Tranny 101 series on this website. Steve did a great job of compiling the instructions. Good thing to follow...but...there is a couple of small errors...but you'll figure em out when you get to that point if you decide to use his instruction as a guide. One slight error is in sequencing and does not detract from the overall disassemble and reassemble sequence. The other is a definition on the orientation of a feature on a gearform. ( You'll reread that part many times ) The second and last point...do follow the sequence verbatim in Steves layout of reassembling the shift rails and their detent plungers. The manuals don't elaborate on these steps and it appears that there might be an easier way of doing it BUT Steve lays out how it has to be. There are no shortcuts there. He did a good job. Tools ? You'll need pullers, torque wrench, putty knife, slide hammer, rubber mallet, mirror, snapring pliers, large and small ball peen hammer, vise grips, dental picks, small torch, emery paper, assorted wood blocks, bearing seperator, safety glasses, all of the common hand tools, cleaning solvents, olive drab modified tooth brush, and a whole bunch of metal cylinders of various diameters to aid in bearing pressing if required. How much work-time-money do you want to do to keep the car ? Not an experienced mechanick ? Among other things...you will begin to learn the peculiar nature of retaining springs on this lesson. If you choose to undertake this project allow yourself ample time as the ordering action for parts alone may take a couple of weeks. Here I go rambling again....Good luck on your decision ! lezesig '79 X 

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[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]lezesig[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]As an alternative

[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]December 27 2000, 12:14 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]....ship it to a pro that can rebuild it. lezesig '79 X 1/9


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[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript>  </SCRIPT>Tony NAtoli <NOSCRIPT></NOSCRIPT>[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Options???

[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]December 27 2000, 3:55 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Hugo...

I think your TRUE options are to install a USED trans, or SELL the car.

As Mr. Lezesig states, even if you are EXPERIENCED, ya gotta be some kinda FIAT PRO to know all the obstacles that the manuals and the Italians placed before you.

Kelly Fiske called me today about shipping a used trans to Hawaii... and that's probably you!

I installed one I received from Shaun Folkerts in NY and made out very well. They only EASY way to inspect them is to 'install it' and try it! Opening them up for inspection... ya might as well rebuild it... and as Mr. "L" layed out it a few thousand words... yur gonna replace more than you ever thought you would and will kick yurself later if ya don't.

Most rebuilts I've seen are around $800 - $1000 as you stated and they BETTER have a warranty for that money.
Used trans are generally anywhere from $250 on up... and sometimes you can buy a whole car and make money selling off all the other parts.

Either choice ya make... this is the site to keep in touch with... Ten minds... although slightly demented, are better than one!

Merry Christmas,

Tony

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[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript>  </SCRIPT>Hugo Corona <NOSCRIPT></NOSCRIPT>[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 30px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]That's me in Hawaii!

[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]December 27 2000, 5:43 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 30px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Yup... It was me. Any Idea on the cost? Wanna buy a slightly used X?

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[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript>  </SCRIPT>Tony Natoli <NOSCRIPT></NOSCRIPT>[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 45px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Well Aloooooooo-ha!

[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]December 27 2000, 10:33 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 45px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Hey Hugo...

Exactly WHERE in Hawaii are you?

Kelly called about shipping this afternoon and I sent him off to FEDEX SURFACE to check out the prices on 91 pounds in a 2' x 2' x 2' box.

From LA to Philly it cost 43 dollars and 49 dollars from Long Island to LA.

I have found FEDEX SURFACE to be the most economical... and usually coast to coast in 3 - 5 days. (They can also deliver BEFORE 10:30 AM the NEXT day for about 230 bucks!)

So I think Kelly was gonna check out the cost from Chicago to Honolulu tomorrow... and from what I understand... he has a decent trans with about 60K on it for a decent price.

As for another X... I'm living on borrowed time with the one I have... HA! (Momma says only one fix-it car at a time...)

I'm having a ball with mine as a true sports car. We have two others for work... On Christmas Day I took the "kids" one at a time for a "joy" ride through the local mountains... It was kinda like Disneyland... they were all waiting in line for their turn.

I haven't found a car as cute, inexpensive and as EXCITING to drive than this little X. I have 148K on this engine (on its third trans) and it just seems to get better.

Good luck and keep in touch...

Tony

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[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Steve Hoelscher[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 45px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Rebuilds

[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]December 28 2000, 6:38 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 45px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]I typically don't use forums to solicit business, but I do rebuild quite a few Fiat transmissions with my specialty being the X1/9s (both 4 and 5 spds). I can either rebuild yours or sell you a rebuilt unit outright. I have both 4 and 5 spds in stock.

Rebuilding your transmission would probably be cheaper, but because of shipping to and from your location, the additional shipping cost might turn out to negate the savings.

Steve



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[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript>  </SCRIPT>Gary Collins <NOSCRIPT></NOSCRIPT>[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 60px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Question

[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]December 29 2000, 4:58 AM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 60px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Seeing as how you rebuild gearboxes could you
tell me the taper roller bearing numbers on the
final drives on a 1978 Australian/Euro 4 speed
box.The spare box that I am rebuilding needs them
but I dont won't to remove them just yet.All the
bearings in the box are SKF Italian bearings.
Thanks for your time./Red 1980 X/19

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[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Steve Hoelscher[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 75px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Bearings

[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]December 29 2000, 8:08 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 75px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]I always buy the bearings from my usual Fiat parts suppliers. I have had no luck finding them through any of the bearing houses, even if they carry SKF or FAG.

Steve


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[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript>  </SCRIPT>Gary Collins <NOSCRIPT></NOSCRIPT>[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 90px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Thanks Steve

[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]December 30 2000, 2:19 AM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 90px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Thanks steve I will persue it with my
regular supplier.
To all on the forum a HAPPY NEW YEAR

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[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript>  </SCRIPT>Hugo Corona <NOSCRIPT></NOSCRIPT>[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 60px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Steve...I need some info from you

[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]January 1 2001, 4:40 AM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 60px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Steve, I found out I will be going to California/Arizona with the Marine Corps for a few months. I would like to correspond with you since I will be able to bring my tranny with me and ship it to you for fixing from there, however I need to have an idea of the price. I read the thread above and know how much you charge for labor. I need an APPROXIMATION if I needed new 1st,2nd and 3rd grs w/syncs. Again, I ask for an approximation fully understanding that this is by no means a binding, set price, even if all I needed were the mentioned pieces to see if this is even feasible. Please contact me at muzshn@email.com, this is the address I use while traveling with the Corps. Thanks for the help.

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[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript>  </SCRIPT>Bud Durdle <NOSCRIPT></NOSCRIPT>[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 60px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]tranny rebuild

[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]September 16 2001, 3:52 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 60px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Just put up a message on the message list about repeatedly losing tripodes. cost two tripode recepticals one each per 2 trannys. am planning on rebuilding using both for best parts. Any help or suggestions as to things to watch out for, not my first tranny but first X1/9. what parts have to be kept together so as not to lose the shimming setup and do these parts have to be kept with the case they came out of

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[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript>  </SCRIPT>Hugo Corona <NOSCRIPT></NOSCRIPT>[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 45px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Bummed out

[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]December 30 2000, 4:09 AM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 45px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Well I am bummed out. 18 years I waited for this puppy and now that I have it I have to let go of it. I am affraid that the culprit is not the car, but my location. It takes forever to get things shipped here and it costs an arm and a leg to bring them. Unfortunatelly, nobody will touch my tranny here. Bunch of woozes. If I had a snowball's chance in Hell of making it I might try it, but I have no knowledge of this and everyone says I am better of getting 'nuther one. I want to thank all the kind people who offered their help. Maybe in a year when I move to California, in the meantime I will fi-X the clutch and sell the car. Have a Happy New Year all!

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[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript>  </SCRIPT>Mike Waggoner <NOSCRIPT></NOSCRIPT>[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 30px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]So it's tough rebuilding a Fiat transmission?

[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]December 27 2000, 10:49 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 30px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]I've got a Fiat 124 with a horrible groan issuing from the tranny any time the clutch isn't down, unless it's in fourth gear. I'm assuming input shaft bearing gone, since it was run out of oil by the previous owner. I got that clue from Steve with limited info a few months ago (I am relatively clueless).
How hard would it be to fix? I've replaced a few dozen clutches, used to pull engines etc part time, but never any detail work like this.
It seems that buying parts for a complete rebuild from IAP would cost me about $400, $90 for just the bearing. I've seen the occasional used tranny for $100-$250 in the papers, but am very weary that they'd be defective (mine can still drive for a few thousand more miles in ALL 5 gears, at least).
One consideration is that I'm likely to sell the car after I do the tranny work (I got a Datsun Roadster I love) and don't want to dump a ton of money into it. I'm thinking that since it has a hardtop, rechromed bumpers, new softtop, rebuilt, and new paintjob, it should be worth around $2k, and spending a grand on it for a rebuilt with a warranty would be foolish. On the other hand, it's in my mother's driveway (I'm a college student) and I need it gone to avoid death threats, so knowing where I can get a rebuilt soon (or someone who would rebuild mine for the least amount of money possible) would be helpful also.
Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks.

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[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript>  </SCRIPT>Tony Natoli Santa Clarita CA <NOSCRIPT></NOSCRIPT>[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 45px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Kinda yes...

[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]December 28 2000, 1:01 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 45px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Coupla things Mike...

1. Transmissions are probably one of the most complex mechanical items on any car... of any type. They are a puzzle at best. Most parts go together one way or another and within one or two tries its obvious... i.e. rings on pistons, rods, wrist pins and cylinder bores.

But a multiplicity of gears and three shafts and bearings and shims and sometimes clutches on automatics and drawings that aren't accurate and pullers and on and on make transmission overhaul a specialty... and should be done by specialists... or someone who has a propencity for self-abuse!

2. If you think it'll cost ya 400 in parts, you're right... but its really gonna cost ya 800! HA! Murphy's Law...

3. As far as buying a used one from someone on these sites... I have learned that most all are quite reputable and honest. There are too few of us... most would give ya a price and a guarantee the likes of the old handshakes of yesteryear!

4. If you really like the Datsun that much and plan on selling the 124... I would not invest the time and money to take a GREATER loss. I would price the car and be straight forward as to its condition. Take a look at the others for sale on the web and list it for a price allowing for some bartering... so ya both walk away feeling good!

Good Luck!

Tony

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[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript>  </SCRIPT>Mike Mittelstead <NOSCRIPT></NOSCRIPT>[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]As Clint Eastwood said...

[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]December 27 2000, 10:36 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]...do you feel lucky? Used trannies are a roll of the dice. And the odds are against you, but if the price is REALLY right, it can be a gamble that pays off. Just depends on your personal orientation towards taking a risk vs reaping rewards.

When I bought my blackX, it had a tranny problem, but came with a used tranny that PO said was "supposed" to be good...per the previous PO. Not a good sign. Deck was stacked against it being good, but I said what the heck and tossed it in (done a few tranny R&R before...a bit of work, but not that tough, even for a piker like me). Eureka! Worked like a champ!

Dodged that bullet. Happy trails!

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[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript>  </SCRIPT>Steven Lawson <NOSCRIPT></NOSCRIPT>[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 30px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]I felt lucky, punk...

[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]December 28 2000, 8:54 AM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 30px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]... and I bought the core tranny from Mike's blackX to do a rebuild.

I knew mine would be worthless inside, been driven too long with the grinds. Never rebuilt a tranny before, but made my way through it using SteveH's "5-speed 101" and this list. It's working great! I even swapped in Strada final gears to do freeway cruising while I had it open.

It really wasn't that hard to do. I'm not a mechanic, I'm a programmer. I've rebuilt a couple of motors, the tranny was alot easier. The key is to be patient, and try to keep the parts in order as you disassemble the gear cluster. Oh, before you take the gears apart, run the sliders up and down & turn the gears - that way you'll know how it should move after you put it back together (gives you alot of confidence when you put the gear cluster back together and can tell it's moving the way it did before you took it apart).

Having air tools available is nice for removing some of the nuts. Also, a beefy set of snap ring pliars would have helped, even though I successfully improvised with a cheap set and a couple screwdrivers.

Oh, if you have an early 5-speed ('79, '80?) be prepared to buy 1st & 2nd gears. The synchro tends to wear down the sharp rings on the gear hubs rather than the other way around.

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[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Gilles[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 45px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]More questions on gearbox gaskets

[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]December 28 2000, 10:42 AM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 45px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Hi guys:

I bought an early type 5 speed (79/81), from a member of the Mirafiori’s forum and according to him, his mechanic open the transaxle case to inspect it and the mechanic concluded that the internals where in really good shape (I want to believe that).

But since the cases where open, the gaskets have to be replaced prior to installation.

The question here is: How easy would be for me to replace the gaskets using only common tools, and limited garage space?

I am not in too much of a hurry because the gearbox I am currently using is in good shape, but is leaking too much oil (the case is damaged at the bottom) also it is a late model gearbox (’86), so the first gear ratio is way too short. That is why I choose the earlier type.

Thank you in advance for your comments, Gilles



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[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript>  </SCRIPT>Steven Lawson <NOSCRIPT></NOSCRIPT>[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 60px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]early 5-speed

[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]December 28 2000, 2:49 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 60px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]If you're going to open it up for gaskets anyway, you might as well disassemble the gearset and inspect stuff per "5-speed 101", you'll be halfway there anyway.

Really, if you lay out a towel and keep the parts in order it's pretty easy. Work the sliders and turn the gears to see how things move first, then do the disassembly.

Being an early unit you really need to inspect how the 1,2 synchros mate to the rings on the gear. I don't think you can really tell without taking off the slider and getting it down to gear+synchro.

On my core, both synchros just dropped onto the gear face and freely spun. The rings on the gear were flat, the synchros were brand new. On the replacement gears, the rings were very sharp and the synchros grabbed onto them as they should without touching the gear face.

In summary, it would be a waste of time and a gasket set to put it together without doing the inspection.

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[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Gilles[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 75px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Thanks to Steven L. & Steve H.

[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]January 2 2001, 8:13 AM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 75px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]My home computer has been down for soo long, that by the time I get it running back again it will be complete obsolete!

Steven and Steve: Thanks for the advise, I will inspect the transmission (at least try) before installing the seals.

Perhaps I can take the gearbox to the local shop to remove the 30mm nut from 5th gear with their impact wrench.

Best regards, Gilles

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[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Steve Hoelscher[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 60px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Re-Seal

[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]December 28 2000, 6:27 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 60px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]As was noted, as long as you have it apart, do an inspection of the entire gearset. You would be saving yourself a lot of headache if you found a problem after re-sealing and installation.

To re-seal a 5 speed you would need to follow the majority of steps from 5 spd 101 stopping short of compete dissassembly of the gear cluster. (But as noted, an inspection is recommended) This would require a slide hammer to remove the stub axles (yes there are alternatives to removing the drivers side stub axle, but the passenger side requires the slide hammer), a 30mm socket and either a breaker bar and a friend (to hold the transmission while you leaned on the breaker bar) or an impact wrench. Other than that, common hand tools (sockets and wrenches) will do the job.

A couple of large sockets and a mallet can be used to drive the new axle seals into place along with the input shaft seal. Then its just new gaskets and some RTV.

Steve


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[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]lezesig[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 75px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Ya got that right !

[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]December 29 2000, 1:21 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 75px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Steve,
"..a 30mm socket and either a breaker bar.."- Ya got that right ! How about adding a gorilla, an elephant, two assistants ( accomplises to the act ), another length of breaker bar....Ha, ha, ha, ha, Those nuts are TIGHT. lezesig '79 X1/9 

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[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript>  </SCRIPT>Hugo Corona <NOSCRIPT></NOSCRIPT>[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Ok...here goes nothing

[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]December 30 2000, 4:44 AM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Where can I find the famous 5 speed 101? I looked for a long while all over the forum and found references to it, but didn't see "IT". Could someone point me in the right direction?

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[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript>  </SCRIPT>Steven Lawson <NOSCRIPT></NOSCRIPT>[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 30px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]5-speed 101

[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]December 30 2000, 7:50 AM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 30px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]On Seattle X1/9's link page. It's not compiled yet into a real document, so this page indexes all the forum postings you need.

http://www.seattlex19.org/5s101/index.html

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[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]lezesig[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 30px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Direction pointer (another)

[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]December 31 2000, 12:51 AM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 30px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<imgsrc="http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=1308543&a=9715543&p=36645874">;

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[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript>  </SCRIPT>Hugo Corona <NOSCRIPT></NOSCRIPT>[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 45px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Bad Gear I take it?

[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]January 1 2001, 4:22 AM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 45px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Is this a gear that has been worn out beyound limitations/specs? Or is this to show that even though there is wear on the gear it is still usable?

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[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]lezesig[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 60px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]well, please re-examine

[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]January 1 2001, 2:37 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 60px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Hugo,
Struggling decisions ? I was at the same juncture in August on my X 1/9. About the pic: You mentioned you suspect a problem between first and second gear and syncro relationship ? The pic shows the area between first and second gear on a 5-speed. To answer your questions directly then...Good Gear on both the main gearface and the syncro gearface. ( to within specs anyway ), good mating syncromesh teeth on *slider, good syncromesh friction contact ring(s), good syncro hub assy ( including tabs and springs which can be inspected once disasssembled ). Note, there is a slider which surrounds this assembly which contains the syncromesh teeth that related both to the outboard second gear and the inboard first gear ( *slider not shown ). That slider also doubles as the reverse gear by having the syncro teeth on the inner rim and reverse teeth on the outer rim. There are more inspection points and tests to this assembly but I didn't elaborate here for simplicity of explanation on what this photo shows. This should get you a little closer to figuring out just what might be the problem in your box. Once again good luck on your venture. I'm back to reinstalling the rear control arms and figuring out where I need to shim. Hopefully get the toe-in/out correct. lezesig '79 X 1/9

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Que pasa con los Synchros

User1

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