lookforjoe
True Classic
Side note - is that the natural placement of the radiator angle? If so, it's interesting to note that it's angled backwards vs. the X1/9 forward lean....
Radiator exhaust through the hood
- Thread starter rachaeljf
- Start date
Side note - is that the natural placement of the radiator angle? If so, it's interesting to note that it's angled backwards vs. the X1/9 forward lean....
Pete Whitstone
True Classic
I don't ever remember altering the angle, but I can't swear everything is bolted down where it goes in those photos. It's been a lot of years since the front end has been on the car, so someone with a more stock Scorpion is going to have to verify.
rachaeljf
True Classic
Hi Hussein, the car is in a long queue for restoration, so no new photos for some time! I have put them in a new folder: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/tq9aulcp3ru792p/AAAU0icdEk39LO_rSEJiZL6Qa?dl=0
Dr.Jeff
True Classic
Thanks for bringing this thread up. It will be great to see how this rad ducting comes out, with respect to the air flow, top fitment, etc.. I like the concept.
There was another recent thread where someone asked what have people done with regard to hood venting of the radiator. The typical Dallara openings have been done a lot, it would be nice to see some other designs.
One that I would consider is a wide, shallow opening with louvers. I'm thinking something sort of like one of these:
But that won't allow the top to be stored or lessen the hot air from entering the cabin. Just a different look that I like.
There was another recent thread where someone asked what have people done with regard to hood venting of the radiator. The typical Dallara openings have been done a lot, it would be nice to see some other designs.
One that I would consider is a wide, shallow opening with louvers. I'm thinking something sort of like one of these:
But that won't allow the top to be stored or lessen the hot air from entering the cabin. Just a different look that I like.
Brayden_connolly
True Classic
I think I posted about it a few years ago, when I built my car I vented the rad to the wheel wells as "brake ducting". Didn't want to give up the utility of the frunk and still wanted to be able to store the top up front so this was the solution.
So far has worked well and keeps the front from "floating" at high speeds.
So far has worked well and keeps the front from "floating" at high speeds.
Bjorn Nilson
True Classic
The weather is unpredictable here so I need to carry the roof. If I lived in another climate I would probably do something like this for better cooling and more downforce.
lookforjoe
True Classic
That's kinda where I was going - Thanks for posting - I don't recall ever seeing them before. I was wondering doing just this would create the need for fender vents. Doesn't sound like you've had any need to add that feature.
EDIT - I see that I did comment on the post at the time
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Brayden_connolly
True Classic
As long as you have the rear fender splash shields in place or fabricate something to block the opening behind the wheel it seems to be fine.
Dr.Jeff
True Classic
This is a bit different take on it altogether, another approach by a member to improve the airflow as it goes through the rad and under the car. He angled the rad back (instead of forward), and modified the 'rear' wall behind the rad to allow a more gradual angle from the rad to below of the car (rather than the abrupt vertical wall). He didn't show much of the body mods, but here is his thread:
Cooling improvement
I have mentioned this before, but sharing experience after 6000 miles. Bought VA aluminium radiator, flipped it upside down and tilted it backwards about 35 degrees (bottom aligned with valance and top as far back as possible). For that reason: used drain port as bleeder; plugged thermo port...
xwebforums.com
Bjorn Nilson
True Classic
I like this design as it allows you to keep most of the storage and roof in the frunk. But it looks like the redirected hot airflow hits brake cylinders and discs? Would this work also in a hot climate or race circumstances without overheating the front brakes? Or does it even improve brake cooling with the extra airflow?
lookforjoe
True Classic
I would expect the temp of the air coming through will be substantially lower than that of the brakes when in use - I'm curious if the flow directed thus actually travels out through the wheel, or if it mostly adds to the wheel well 'pocket' Not sure how that question could be answered in a meaningful way without equipment that measures flow in/out the wheel wells. All that aside, I like this approach as it doesn't impact the 'hood'.
lookforjoe
True Classic
Yeah - mine are 'tubbed' out to meet the dallara flares, so no gap / passage for air to go between inner & outer fender.
I'm just trying to figure out if I can get away with not removing the entire forward wiring harness
I need to fix my inner strut tower walls - not as bad as yours, but since I'm adding another fusebox tucked in where the AC R/dryer used to go, I need to fix the rust now rather than later (I had originally planned on doing this another year). Since I'm going to be cutting, I'm leaning toward a mod of this sort while I'm at it. I may figure out a r/s duct that leaves the AC hose & harness essentially where it is, rather than relocate above as I believe you did?
Brayden_connolly
True Classic
Yes I would argue the 190 degree air cools much better than no air flow on glowing red brakes haha.
Im sure its not the "optimal" setup for air flow and there is probably still a decent amount of drag but on track it has helped keep the brakes cool and the front end is stable at high speeds.
The harness got relocated higher but for the most part follows the same path and the strut towers got cut out and replaced after I finished the vents
kmead
Old enough to know better
Air coming from the radiator won’t be 190, the temperature transfer isn’t that efficient. As it is inefficient, you flow lots of air to get it the radiator down to the desired temperature. I would bet the air temp rarely is higher than 130° ever.Yes I would argue the 190 degree air cools much better than no air flow on glowing red brakes haha.
Im sure its not the "optimal" setup for air flow and there is probably still a decent amount of drag but on track it has helped keep the brakes cool and the front end is stable at high speeds.
The harness got relocated higher but for the most part follows the same path and the strut towers got cut out and replaced after I finished the vents
I think your solution, although a bit radical for a street car, is stealthy and one hopes it works well.
The brakes won’t mind, the temperature differential between the air and the hot metal is still great enough that you are still getting decent transfer. Probably way better than normal as normally there isn’t much airflow inside the wheelhouse of these cars.
lookforjoe
True Classic
@rachaeljf - let me know if you'd prefer this be moved to a separate thread...
So, I made some drawings based on @Brayden_connolly photo's - I hope that's OK - to evaluate details
The hatching represents where he cut through the 'frame' section
These are LARGE vents!
So, what I'm leaning toward for the moment at least, is a vent that involves little or no welding, so no cuts through the frame, only though the single skin membrane in between
I'm going to cut holes in the tub wall & inner fender
3x4" fits between the weld flanges (on the inside) . This would be modded to angle the flow diagonally to the wheel opening/brakes. The brake ducts built into the nose/lower pan on my C30 are only about this size.
Inside, 3x4 channel could be used
I think I'm going with corrugated tubing - this is 3.75" inlet, 4x3" outlet. Easier to tweak for fitment - esp. since I usually eyeball all my measurements / placements - so has to be a forgiving margin for error there.
The rectangular end will pass through the inner fender into the guide flange on the outside. For the frunk tub end, I can cut a 4" hole, add a circular flange to it for the tube to attach to. Easier than trying to cut the rectangular orifice in a non-flat surface. That area of the tub is a bunch of compound curves, not flat at all. Doing it this way, I don't need to mess with the AC hose/harness pass-through on the right, as it will sit inboard of that.
I'm going to cut the holes & go forward. I can always make cover/blanking plates if I don't like the way it turns out.
So, I made some drawings based on @Brayden_connolly photo's - I hope that's OK - to evaluate details
The hatching represents where he cut through the 'frame' section
These are LARGE vents!
So, what I'm leaning toward for the moment at least, is a vent that involves little or no welding, so no cuts through the frame, only though the single skin membrane in between
I'm going to cut holes in the tub wall & inner fender
3x4" fits between the weld flanges (on the inside) . This would be modded to angle the flow diagonally to the wheel opening/brakes. The brake ducts built into the nose/lower pan on my C30 are only about this size.
Inside, 3x4 channel could be used
I think I'm going with corrugated tubing - this is 3.75" inlet, 4x3" outlet. Easier to tweak for fitment - esp. since I usually eyeball all my measurements / placements - so has to be a forgiving margin for error there.
The rectangular end will pass through the inner fender into the guide flange on the outside. For the frunk tub end, I can cut a 4" hole, add a circular flange to it for the tube to attach to. Easier than trying to cut the rectangular orifice in a non-flat surface. That area of the tub is a bunch of compound curves, not flat at all. Doing it this way, I don't need to mess with the AC hose/harness pass-through on the right, as it will sit inboard of that.
I'm going to cut the holes & go forward. I can always make cover/blanking plates if I don't like the way it turns out.
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Dr.Jeff
True Classic
I'm assuming your goal is more about adding brake cooling than to redirect the radiator airflow from under the car? I say that because the proposed size of your ducts don't seem they would allow a significant change in the volume of air from the rad flowing downward. I kind of thought Braden's design was slightly on the small side with respect to the total air volume (surface area) through the rad. These are even smaller. Nothing wrong with that, depending on the goal - brakes vs overall aero.
Brayden_connolly
True Classic
I can share the measurements if you'd like, I actually made templates too. If I remember correctly the openings are 6" X 6.5"
autox19
True Classic
I almost contacted you to see if you would sell the vent parts, but a template is good too as it really is a pretty easy bent piece of metal
Odie
Brayden_connolly
True Classic
Ill see if I can dig them up.