Radiator Roulette

Datsun Guy said:
Apples and oranges, but I have used an aftermarket aluminum radiator in a few Datsun Roadsters over the years,a bunch of other people use them and they work well. Very high vibration cars, no rubber in the suspension (from the factory!) very stiff springs and radiator bolted to car with no rubber insulators but none have leaked as far as I've heard. They are much smaller vertical flow units, so might be less stressed where core welds to tanks. Mine was the prototype made by Champion, then the knockoffs started appearing.
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This is along the lines of what I have said previously. Aftermarket aluminum "fabricated type" rads have been around for a long time and have had great success with other vehicles. However there have been some applications where they have not done so well (as seems to be the case with our X's so far). Some groups insist the failures are due to the brand/manufacturer (including the one that is now being used to make the latest design for the X), others think it has to do with the specific design (which has been suggested in our case). A interesting note is the differences in prices for various applications. Granted the size and construction requirements will have some impact, as will the demand and production quantity. But in most cases the prices are significantly lower than many of the ones I've seen offered for the X. If price was an indication of quality (which I do not believe it is), then one might expect the X units to be more successful. I'm sure the other factors already mentioned are part of the reason for prices.
 
Well, old one out, new one in. pretty easy swap except for broken hose clamp screws. That oem radiator is HEAVY. No complaints on fit, odd that the upper and lower radiator frames stop short of and aren't welded to the tanks, but I'm not a radiator designer, so time will tell. Fans and brackets fit and functioned well. Have to wait til Tuesday for one of the hoses, should have ordered them with the radiator, but then I can fill it up. I bought a vacuum radiator filler tool, we'll see how that works and I have a few other cars which are prone to air bubbles to try it on too.

Worth mentioning the Evaporust flush removed even more hard water scale and rust, went in clear,came out black. Nothing but distilled water from now in for all my cars after seeing what came out.

One question, what kind of seal or gasket is used on the bleeder? It looks like there was a fiber washer on the original which fell apart, but the replacement had an O ring on the plug, doesn't seem to fit the bleeder well enough to seal, wants to squirt out the sides.
 
The original bleed screw used a fiber washer. When I installed a new radiator several years ago I bought one of these. Apparently a lot of BMWs have plastic bleed screws from the factory, and there is a supply of after market brass ones.
 
Datsun Guy said:
Worth mentioning the Evaporust flush removed even more hard water scale and rust, went in clear,came out black. Nothing but distilled water from now in for all my cars after seeing what came out.

One question, what kind of seal or gasket is used on the bleeder? It looks like there was a fiber washer on the original which fell apart, but the replacement had an O ring on the plug, doesn't seem to fit the bleeder well enough to seal, wants to squirt out the sides.
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This pic of the new MWB rad is from the previous page. The provided seal on yours differs from this? I think it only has to hold approx 20psi (stock system, or is it more/less?), so a snug fit for an oring should be fine, assuming the seat is appropriate. Did you take any pics of yours?

hN6tLXh.jpg


I switched to Evans waterless many years back, so I don't have to worry about rust from the water content of stock coolant mix. It also doesn't require that it be pressurized at all, so less stress on hoses, etc. I think I used a 4 or 7psi cap.
 
ng_randolph said:
When I installed a new radiator several years ago I bought one of these.
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I got excited about this replacement bleeder screw; shorter to assist with any clearance issues (some aftermarket rads are tight there) and looks to be a better design. I assume the threads are the same as the X's?
But then I saw this on the linked site page for it:
"This product is no longer available for purchase." :(
 
Datsun Guy said:
odd that the upper and lower radiator frames stop short of and aren't welded to the tanks
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That is odd. And sounds different from the one pictured earlier. Plus the bleeder seal question, as Huss said - did you get the same 'new' one from MWB as shown before?

Datsun Guy said:
Worth mentioning the Evaporust flush removed even more hard water scale and rust, went in clear,came out black.
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I've never tried this product. Were you able to visualize any of the cooling system's interior after this flush, to see what the walls and surfaces actually looked like? Curious to know what it did to the heavier stuff. I think the black color it turned to is from the chemical reaction it has with rust. Most rust of these type removers turn black as they work. Water scale would likely be white, but might be difficult to see in the black fluid.

I'll be interested to hear how the vacuum fill device works as well. I made one but haven't tried it yet, so not sure how good of a job I did in making it.
 
I had spoonfuls of white scale on the flushes previous to the Evaporust. I actually had to pump up the system with a pressure tester and poke an allen wrench in the radiator drain hole to break up the clogs. When the evaporust came out, it seemed to hold the powdered rust in suspension, which is what it's designed to do, but even more flakes were in the bottom of the pan. What I could see of the tubes under the car were clear, inside of the hoses was a rust stained. I plan to start up on plain water and Water Wetter, flush after a few days and add antifreeze and flush again before winter.
Handy enough, the short wire harness and plug from the fan switch which failed a few weeks ago was perfect to use to wire up the new fans. Tested those, they move alot of air and are pretty quiet. Old fan and maybe even the radiator (with a condition warning) will end up on Ebay.
 
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Dr.Jeff said:
That is odd. And sounds different from the one pictured earlier. Plus the bleeder seal question, as Huss said - did you get the same 'new' one from MWB as shown before?


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Its the Texas Heat from Vic. It comes with plugs in all the holes, large hex head with an O ring underneath. Same O ring on the small diameter bleeder squirts out. I found a fiber washer that should work.
 
I believe that is the one that came on one of my cars. It has developed a couple of issues, so just keep an eye on it.
 
The vacuum filler tool works like a charm. OEM tools part #24444 $69.00 on Amazon. It's Prime, so if you don't like it, it's returnable. It pulled about 22 inches of vacuum, all the hoses went flat. Then closed the valve and waited to see if it held, which it did. The other hose goes into a bucket of antifreeze and just sucked it in. Started it up and ran it a few times, haven't needed to top it up and have no air at the bleeder.used it on an Infinity, same thing, filled it right up. The big test will be my Ford Expedition with rear seat heat, lots of hoses and 2 heater cores.
Performance of the radiator, can't complain. Ran it at idle on a 95 degree day for 20 minutes and it won't break 190, fans haven't come on yet. I do have a leak at the fan switch, which I think is the sealing surface on the radiator, it didn't look perfectly flat, think it's designed for an O ring, but the switch doesn't have the proper recess to use one. The copper ring leaked, tried an aluminum ring with #2 permatex, that worked, passed 15psi pressure test, drove it about 20 miles, then started to leak a little. I'll try another ring and be sure it's flat.
 
We installed the Volkswagen radiator in our 1981 Lemons car and have finished two races (2nd place in Class C each time) without incident.

We followed instructions found somewhere here on Xweb and used what I think was a V6 Camaro radiator hose. Both hoses leaked where connected to the radiator initially, and I am guessing that the male nipples on the radiator are slightly smaller in diameter than the stock X1/9. We fixed the leaks right before the first race with lots of silicone, and have had no issues since.

Both races were in mild-ish weather with highs in the low 80's, so the Volkswagen radiator has not been really tested at high temperatures yet.
 
545days said:
I am guessing that the male nipples on the radiator are slightly smaller in diameter than the stock X1/9
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I'll have to double check my original X rad and the new VW ones I have, but I believe the hose nipples are the same size/diameter. However I've found not all replacement X hoses are the correct diameter, so maybe that's where the difference came from? I assume the Camaro hose would be slightly off diameter (US vs metric spec). Also the type/brand/condition of hose clamps used might have some influence; not all clamps are created equal (not implying anything in your case, just mentioning it as something to look for). Perhaps the use of a different type clamp than the standard "worm" style may help (e.g. constant tension, full circumference banded, raised ridge inner sleeve, T-bolt, or many others). I've had discussions at trade shows about clamp types/applications with the engineers from several of the leading makers; interesting what is available but rarely seen offered at the usual sources. One problem is most of the makers use their own proprietary names for them, or have little differences in their designs, making it hard to know what to look for or where to find it.
 
The VW (scirroco?) Rad I used years ago following someone's lead had smaller OD hose fittings - 1.25 vs 1.375 of the Fiat
 
Datsun Guy said:
I do have a leak at the fan switch, which I think is the sealing surface on the radiator, it didn't look perfectly flat, think it's designed for an O ring, but the switch doesn't have the proper recess to use one. The copper ring leaked, tried an aluminum ring with #2 permatex, that worked, passed 15psi pressure test, drove it about 20 miles, then started to leak a little. I'll try another ring and be sure it's flat.
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Any update on this? The brand new Vicks aluminum radiator I bought has the same issue. Shop had to use sealant to prevent the switch from leaking, but I don't expect that to last. They told me the same thing -- no recess to use an O-ring properly and not enough surface area to get a crush washer to seal properly. I'll be calling Vicks tomorrow to see what they suggest.
 
RJ80 said:
Any update on this? The brand new Vicks aluminum radiator I bought has the same issue. Shop had to use sealant to prevent the switch from leaking, but I don't expect that to last. They told me the same thing -- no recess to use an O-ring properly and not enough surface area to get a crush washer to seal properly. I'll be calling Vicks tomorrow to see what they suggest.
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On one of my two previous aluminum rads, I had the same issue, the weld bead for the temp switch bung overlapped the sealing surface and caused a small leak. I ended up using a very heavy piece of flat metal stock wrapped in sandpaper to evenly shave the face of the bung to get it flat, in about 4 passes from coarse to fine. Also used an aluminum crush washer (http://fragolaperformancesystems.com/aluminum-a-n-901-crush-washers/) as they seem to crush with less torque than the copper ones.
 
Dan Sarandrea (Phila) said:
On one of my two previous aluminum rads, I had the same issue, the weld bead for the temp switch bung overlapped the sealing surface and caused a small leak. I ended up using a very heavy piece of flat metal stock wrapped in sandpaper to evenly shave the face of the bung to get it flat, in about 4 passes from coarse to fine. Also used an aluminum crush washer (http://fragolaperformancesystems.com/aluminum-a-n-901-crush-washers/) as they seem to crush with less torque than the copper ones.
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Interesting, thanks very much Dan. If Vick Auto doesn't have a better solution I'll give this a try.
 
So I called Vick Auto yesterday and told them about the issue my shop is having sealing the fan switch on their aluminum Texas Heat radiator. The only solution I was given from a rep there was that I use a different mechanic. I was a little surprised, to be honest.
 
I am new here so please forgive my ignorance. Does the original radiator not work? I realize that sometimes change is good but is this change needed. My newly purchased X has 36000 miles and I have not started it yet. I plan on removing the rad and having it cleaned, replacing the hoses and vacuum filling the system. I have no need to just spend money but I don't need to waste money either
 
Ty Chamberlain said:
I am new here so please forgive my ignorance. Does the original radiator not work? I realize that sometimes change is good but is this change needed. My newly purchased X has 36000 miles and I have not started it yet. I plan on removing the rad and having it cleaned, replacing the hoses and vacuum filling the system. I have no need to just spend money but I don't need to waste money either
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Hi Ty,

The original radiators were up to the job when the cars were new. Old radiators get clogged, rust or rot out, etc. If your existing radiator works well, there is no reason to change anything. However, if your radiator is no longer cooling effectively, you need to balance the cost of reconditioning it against buying a new replacement. The aluminum radiators cool better than the originals, so that is a bonus.

To add my 2 cents worth, I bought 2 of the aluminum radiators from Bob Grasch's initial production run here on Xweb. I installed one of them on my 85X and it solved my cooling issues. The only issue I have had with it is that the top bleed screw mount is slightly canted forward and forced the bleed screw into contact with its opening in the frunk body work. I solved this with a little more careful installation work and have had no other issues with leaking or structural problems.
 
I totally agree with what Jim said.

If (and that might be a big 'if') your cooling system is in good order and working properly, then there is no need for any upgrades or replacements.

On the other hand if you find that you are having cooling issues, there may be a number of reasons for it and you will need to determine exactly what the cause is before buying any replacement parts.

However if it turns out your radiator is not working properly then you have a few options. You may be able to get the original one rebuilt, depending on its condition and the shops available where you live ("real" radiator repair shops are a dying breed). The aluminum replacements are another option. And others have been successful replacing the radiator with a non-stock unit from early VW's for relatively little money. Each option has some pluses and minuses in my opinion.
 
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